Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[Grace.212]

I am assuming they have been buried next to each other. I cant imagine if its a murder suicide how the family will feel then.

 

[JDG]

And, they wouldn't be sitting Shiva for them if they thought for a second it was a suicide pact. Suicides are denied normal mourning rituals.
BS would never bring that kind of shame on his family, ever. From the families pov, it would be better for him to pick up the phone and turn himself in, IF he had hurt Honey.

Edited to add: JMO ....simply forgot to put it on.

 

[catdctr]

I don't think this is what you meant but from what I have learned about rigor mortis Honey was positioned for the partial hanging within approx. 2 hours of her death. That positioning would have involved manipulating almost every part of her body.

Yea but the police aren't telling us anything. It may turn out her position in rigor was obviously not consistent with dying there. You can't easily manipulate a body in deep rigor.

 

[Jennifer17]

I am assuming they have been buried next to each other. I cant imagine if its a murder suicide how the family will feel then.

I don't think that the family will ever believe that.

 

[Grace.212]

Also, if it is murder does that affect the Jewish graveside? Having buried a murderer? I am not too familiar with the religion. I dont even know if they have their own cemeteries in Toronto.

 

[Snoopster]

If determined a murder...I am curious what people think police might do to solve it they would not do for the average joe. I believe LE does its best by all murder victims, but jmo.

LE will absolutely work hard to determine what happened. MOO. Call me naive, but I have confidence in them. That doesn't mean that I "know" they will solve it, because not every case is solvable, but they will try. I think they try the same in everyday-joe cases and in this type of case. (I do not believe they try the same in drug/gang killings though. Sadly. But more realistic.)

 

[Snoop Sister]

I have noticed many people have joined WS in the last week and are really adamant about the murder theory. Perhaps they know something the rest of us don’t know. Some do sound like they know BS and HS personally. If this is the case, they need to get verified.

 

[JayFriend]

BBM

For the person who posted that maybe Honey had had a new, poor diagnosis and he had killed her to prevent suffering, I appreciate that that is your opinion.

That was me who suggested it and it has happened many times before. Read up on Dr Kavorkain. There have been many instances in elderly people where one receives a poor diagnosis and the other kills them to end their suffering. But this is purely speculation on my part and you should take it as such. Just a theory.

The way they died hardly looks like a mercy killing and suicide.

 

[JDG]

I don't think in this case, that the religious community would do that even if it was ruled a murder/suicide. They would just choose to disbelieve it, IMO.

IF its proven to be a murder/suicide, I think it would be presumed that the killer was suffering from mental illness. IMO

 

[catdctr]

The thing that really bugs me is the quick turn around by the pathologist (s). Sounds like they released just gross post mortem results. It takes at least 24 hours for tissue to be turned into histology blocks and at least another day up to several to read out the histopathology. Extra days if special stains added or immunofluorescence let alone toxicology.

 

[JDG]

More than likely BS was DX’d with Aspergers at some point? JMO. My son is a brilliant mind but could care less about clothes, fashion, and how to put a “look” together. If we are going somewhere special I have to pick the outfits out right down to the socks and shoes. He is 20 years of age and I hope he finds a woman with some fashion sense J Like BS, my son is not interested in small talk but would prattle on endlessly about his area of expertise. He can be brutally honest, speaks his mind, if asked. A bomb could go off next to him and he would barely flinch. He is not given to anger or rage, but rather resembles a sloth. I find so many similarities with respect to BS and my son. In reading all the posts and taking in the media, etc. I have a very strong deep down feeling that these poor people were murdered. I am not remotely surprised that someone early on leaked that they thought it was murder suicide. These TPS have not likely seen something staged like this ever. I hope justice prevails and I continue to enjoy reading everyone’s opinion. I do feel for the children. Heartbreaking to say the very least.

Brilliant people are sometimes given a lot of leeway on personal 'quirks'. Add his wealth and brilliance, no one would really bother with an 'eccentric' Billionaire. JMO

 

[Jennifer17]

The thing that really bugs me is the quick turn around by the pathologist (s). Sounds like they released just gross post mortem results. It takes at least 24 hours for tissue to be turned into histology blocks and at least another day up to several to read out the histopathology. Extra days if special stains added or immunofluorescence let alone toxicology.

Except, there may have been physical evidence.

 

[Snoopster]

Suicide would NOT appeal to the Shermans, not at all. The Jewish traditions are to save life, not take it. Obviously, they understand that many suicides are the result of mental illnesses but to think that Barry would kill Honey for ANY reason, is absurd. They have both had bouts of cancer, had surgery and treatment and were, apparently, fine. The Jewish tradition is absolutely against suicide, the body belongs to G_d, so if one takes ones life, its like taking the authority away from G_d. Now, I know Barry stated he was an atheist and had no time for organized religion. He even wrote about it, argued about it. BUT, he was still raised in the Jewish traditions as were his children. Traditions run deep. IMO

I think its important to understand things in context, thats why I have posted this. IMO its vital to understand, no longer for Barry and Honey but for their family.

For the person who posted that maybe Honey had had a new, poor diagnosis and he had killed her to prevent suffering, I appreciate that that is your opinion. I have lost two very dear people to cancer, extremely poor diagnoses from the start and not once did anyone suggest we commit suicide to avoid what was ahead. Religion didn't enter into it in any way. We just decided, to make the most of every moment we had left. Every second became more precious, as we knew it was ending very soon. JMO

But that was YOUR situation. (I'm sorry you had to face that!)

I do not believe however, that you (or anyone else) can possibly know what someone else might do and what is going on in their mind. Even if you know them personally. People do ALL kinds of things that others didn't believe they could do. People can have a break from reality. People can have secrets. People are human.

None of what I said above takes away from the fact that the family is facing a heart-wrenching situation. It also doesn't mean that I believe that it was a murder/suicide or that I don't. I'm just saying you can't "know". I can only wish that the case gets resolved quickly and that the media doesn't go overboard.

 

[catdctr]

Except, there may have been physical evidence.

Yes exactly. Goes back to there must have been something really obvious at the scene..

 

[spanishshara]

I am assuming they have been buried next to each other. I cant imagine if its a murder suicide how the family will feel then.

I suspect even if the evidence was very clear they still would not accept it.

 

[catdctr]

I suspect even if the evidence was very clear they still would not accept it.

I don't blame them. I wouldn't accept it either. And if I were part of the family I would hope someone could help come up with anything to exonerate them and find their killer. I think this is the purpose of this forum yes? To share information and ideas to help seek the truth. It may be murder suicide but it may not be. No police force can do it all. Sometimes it is in the little details that helps them solve these things.

 

[gregjrichards]

What happens if police never find out who is responsible for the deaths of Honey and Barry Sherman?

An autopsy concluded last weekend that the billionaire couple died from ligature neck compression, or hanging or strangulation with a ligature. Homicide investigators have taken over the case, but it hasn’t been labelled a homicide.
“There are only two possibilities,” David Perry, a 28-year veteran of Toronto police’s homicide and sexual assault squads now working as a private investigator, told the Star. “These two people died at their own hands or somebody else’s.

“So that’s what they’re trying to figure out and, I would imagine, it’s quite a piece to put together to come up with an exact or definite determination. And there are cases where we can’t, you know?”

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...ice-cant-responsible-billionaires-deaths.html

 

[cluciano63]

I suspect even if the evidence was very clear they still would not accept it.

Agree. Even a note in B's handwriting, stating things only he knew, would not convince family, or many here either.

 

[Sanz]

Suicide would NOT appeal to the Shermans, not at all. The Jewish traditions are to save life, not take it. Obviously, they understand that many suicides are the result of mental illnesses but to think that Barry would kill Honey for ANY reason, is absurd. They have both had bouts of cancer, had surgery and treatment and were, apparently, fine. The Jewish tradition is absolutely against suicide, the body belongs to G_d, so if one takes ones life, its like taking the authority away from G_d. Now, I know Barry stated he was an atheist and had no time for organized religion. He even wrote about it, argued about it. BUT, he was still raised in the Jewish traditions as were his children. Traditions run deep. IMO

I think its important to understand things in context, thats why I have posted this. IMO its vital to understand, no longer for Barry and Honey but for their family.

For the person who posted that maybe Honey had had a new, poor diagnosis and he had killed her to prevent suffering, I appreciate that that is your opinion. I have lost two very dear people to cancer, extremely poor diagnoses from the start and not once did anyone suggest we commit suicide to avoid what was ahead. Religion didn't enter into it in any way. We just decided, to make the most of every moment we had left. Every second became more precious, as we knew it was ending very soon. JMO

I personally have not found that Barry Sherman followed the beliefs of the Jewish faith. Instead I've found articles disclosing his devout belief in Atheism.

Firstly when his son removed his headgear as a sign of respect to his father during his*eulogy.

At the memorial, Jonathon Sherman said his father was his hero. He called him a staunch atheist and he took off his kippah when he addressed his late father.
*http://www.nydailynews.com/newswire...nto-billionaires-found-dead-article-1.3713959

It was clear from an early age that Barry Sherman relished a good fight. His grandparents had fled the anti-Semitic pogroms of Eastern Europe to settle in Toronto, where he was born in 1942, but Sherman himself was a devoted atheist who revelled in insisting people of faith define God in terms he inevitably found inadequate.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ter-violent-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman


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[dotr]

If B and HS were murdered, still wondering if they could have been unknowingly drugged with something like GHB which apparently is difficult to detect in toxicology tests.
Unsure what drug was used by the perp in this recent disturbing news in Montreal, but it goes to show not only young people are drugged for criminal purposes.
imo, speculation.fwiw.

https://www.elitedaily.com/news/drugs-for-sexual-assault-toxicology-reports/1708624

Many drugs used to facilitate rape do not show up positive on toxicology reports.

Some drugs, like gamma-Hydroxybutyrate (GHB), go through a person's body so quickly, by the time he or she gets to medical services for testing, it's already gone.

https://www.cp24.com/news/montreal-...ging-robbing-seniors-in-their-homes-1.3735883

Published Tuesday, December 26, 2017
Montreal police are asking for the public's help in identifying a man in connection with a series of home invasions that targeted seniors in three different boroughs in December.

The man approached the women at their homes and was able to gain their trust with his seemingly “kind and charming,” manner, police spokeswoman Caroline Chevrefils said.

“He offers them food or drinks, for example chocolate or wine, which contains an unknown substance,” she said in a phone interview.

“The suspect asks them to eat or drink the gift and then waits for it to take effect, and that effect is a loss of consciousness.”

She said the victims would wake up later and realize that valuables had been stolen from their homes

.
rbbm.