Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[minorone]

.
Well then LE should have no problem pinpointing what happened.

It still does not tell you who did what. I suppose someone could go in with a hazmat suit and leave no forensics at the scene. Still alot of unanswered ??? unless more information is available to the public.

From what I have read on ligature compression, pressure has to be maintained for 2-3 minutes before the point of no return. If that is correct, that is actually a long time. I would think that if you did this to someone in a moment of anger, you have time to stop before death would result. Murder would seem to be what the perpetrator wanted.

This is just a strange case and lots of unanswered questions. Perhaps catdctr can add some clarity on some of this.

 

[Tortoise]

Do you think Barry would have committed suicide and murdered his wife knowing he was being awarded the Order of Canada very soon? Surely this would have been a great honour and achievement to him or he would not have accepted it. Why after a life of success would you want to die in disgrace? Why would he chose that day in particular?

It also seems crazy me that as the owner of a pharmaceutical company you would kill yourself and your wife via hanging? Why not take an overdose?

The only thing I can think of is if he did strangle her and then decided to commit suicide the only option for staging her body as a suicide with the ligature marks present would be hanging, so his suicide had to match hers to help convince the police.

 

[Ritika]

I looked into this a little further after my absolute blunder of saying that Honey ran a not for profit. I cannot find any links to this information. I apologize for this. I can however find links to The" Sherman Family foundation" in Canada.. Not to be confused with "The Sherman Family Foundation" in Th U.S.

I want to add that a close examination of anyone's taxes will find some discrepancies. I have close friends that work for the Feds here. We talk about this frequently without mentioning the names of the individuals ,or companies of who we are discussing (This would be illegal in Canada).
IMO the deaths have little to do with the Shermans personally fighting over money. They were wealthy, very wealthy at the time of their deaths.

Note that in Canada you can :
- Be paid to be on a NPO board.

This is incorrect. Pls see:

https://www.canadiancharitylaw.ca/b...harities_in_ontario_-generally_prohibited_wit

- Write off 100% of your donations to a registered charity that you donate to on your personal income tax.

Not correct.
The write off of an eligible donation from an individual to an registered charity is not 100% , rather the tax credit (federal and provincial) is calculated on a formula based on a number of factors including the province you reside in:
See this link:

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...its/charitable-donation-tax-credit-rates.html

Note that donations made by Canadian family foundation is not eligible for any tax credit as Foundations are already tax exempt.
https://www.canadiancharitylaw.ca/b...one_registered_charity_to_another_-_no_receip


Sherman Family Foundation-Registered Name: Sherman Family Foundation
Business Number: 813676186RR0001
150 SIGNET DRIVE-NORTH YORK, ON , M9L 1T9
From: https://www.canadahelps.org/en/charities/sherman-family-foundation/
Revenue--No employees? -https://www.canadahelps.org/en/charities/sherman-family-foundation/impact/view/

3 Board members-Should be 3 to 5 with some expertise ,and 50 percent of the board members should be listed as "YES" At arm's length with other Directors-Not the case with the Sherman family foundation

Not correct. Board structure rules for Canadian family Foundations differ from that of registered charities.
Pls see #9 of this document:

https://www.globalphilanthropy.ca/images/uploads/Fallacies_about_Canadian_Private_foundations.pdf

^ The above means that upto 100% of the Shermans donations may have been written off against thier personal income taxes .

See link above .

The Canadian government did have income splitting as well,Honey not working at a job could have benifitted them in thier personal income taxes

Non-profit tax and personal income tax

https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tips/dif...-profit-organizations-for-your-donations-5351
https://giveconfidently.ca/interpreting-government-information/
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/haip/...01&fpe=2015-12-31&n=Sherman+Family+Foundation
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/haip/...01&fpe=2015-12-31&n=Sherman+Family+Foundation
https://chimp.net/charities/sherman-family-foundation
https://www.marsdd.com/mars-library/board-compensation-npo-versus-for-profit-boards/

IMO The above information has little nothing to really do with this case.

Aside for the pay for acess issue I personally have problems with Honey having donated so much money to the Trudeau Liberals with her husband being a qualified lobbyist.
IMO our Canadian government has some real issues. Don't think this is a reason for murder either.

lobbyistslaws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-2.01/FullText.html
https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/eic/site/012.nsf/eng/h_00012.html

Pls see my comments in your text above .

 

[Jasper52]

Pls see my comments in your text above .

If you "bold" your comments, it will be much easier to see your comments.

 

[Ritika]

Directors on a board of any Canadian / Ontario registered charity or foundation cannot receive any compensation.
https://www.canadiancharitylaw.ca/b...harities_in_ontario_-generally_prohibited_wit

 

[Ritika]

Yes I should have done that. Sorry! 😐

 

[Jasper52]

Yes I should have done that. Sorry! ��

You may have still have time to edit the post.

 

[Ritika]

I tried but won’t let me bold using mobile 😐

 

[Wondergirl]

I was watching this live on TV, because I am from Toronto and work in civil litigation. So I know the Sherman name very well.

This woman carrying the flowers, spoke to a reporter outside and said she worked at
Apotex. She was visibly upset and crying.

What I found extremely baffling is she walked under the police tape, walked up their driveway and straight into their house via the side door. Not one police officer stopped her. It was at least two minutes before the police lead her away.

That is in my mind not a very good way of protecting a crime scene.

Extremely good point.

Were you ever directly involved in civil litigation case with Apotex or The Sherman's?

What are your thoughts on this case?

WG

 

[JDG]

I have produced necessary certificates and credentials
I actually am a veterinarian and veterinary pathologist. I truly am puzzled by this case and I truly want to help
This case also caught my i interest through a personal connection who is close to the family. If I can help I will.

Just curious and you don't have to answer but do you work at OVC? The pathologists there were so kind and helpful when I needed a necropsy on one of my dogs a few years back.

 

[DarkSkink]

Well I shall agree to disagree. My point is best made by looking to the definition of incompetence.

Incompetence would be missing something relevant, not missing something irrelevant.

Unfortunately, using the benefit of hindsight nullifies the relevance of the theory.

LE doesn't know what, if anything was down there *right now*. It is at that moment they have to decide if it's worthwhile to pump the sewers or not.

Even if they are 100% in the belief that it's a murder suicide, the spectre of the private investigators finding something that could be interpreted as incriminating, falsley or otherwise, will play a significant part in their decision to pump the sewers.

 

[JDG]

I will soon be married forty five years,. If something happened to my husband, the thought of being with another man at this age is totally unappealing. We have both developed our habits which we either accept or ignore.

Things that would have made me angry 20 years ago simply go in one ear and out the other or not in at all.

It is a big adjustment when you retire, but Barry was not retired.

They have money and are able to do what they want. They have children who love them. They are not lonely but rather have lots to do. They have purpose.

Since it was ligature, that is very intense. Using something to choke someone is far more frightening to me than choking manually which I could see in a fight. I cannot see using ligature in a fight unless it is planned.

What are the reasons people divorce? New love interest, money issues, different values. What else?

Do people all of a sudden become violent when they never have in the past? Does that mean there were violent incidences before?

One would think Honey would confide in someone if that was the case.

But look at the number of women, who after a very long and 'successful' marriage, decide that they've had enough and file for divorce.

I think its called 'grey divorces' and its predominantly women who initiate them. The men usually do not even see it coming, as they are quite happily married.....ie their needs are getting met.

I know, it all seemed great on the outside, doesn't mean it was great behind closed doors. It doesn't have to be a new man, it sometimes is just time to walk away.

The kids were all grown, lives of their own and successful (Im assuming) and there was an article that indicated they had some friction, being so different and all. Possibly, Honey wanted to be free to do as she wished.....and he took umbrage. Could she have let him know she was done......the new house was HER new house?

Just a thought......

PS I say this for many reasons. Its not fun being married to a work-a-holic. Their absence does not make the heart grow fonder.
Her job as a mother was done and maybe it was just getting old, very old.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

In my mind, murder-suicide or double suicide by hanging are plausible, but don’t seem likely in this case, imo.

It’s morbid to think about, but ligature strangulation tops Canada’s list of methods used in attempted and completed suicides.

Granted, all or none of this might apply to the Shermans. We don’t yet know and might not ever.

“Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).”

(snip)

“Previous research has found an association between the break-up of a marriage (or co-habiting relationship) and increased risk of depression, the most common mental health disorder amongst people who commit suicide.”

(snip)

“Suicide is one of the leading causes of death for people of all ages. In 2009, it ranked as the ninth leading cause of death in Canada.”

(snip)

“For both men and women, married people were the least likely group to commit suicide.”

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-624-x/2012001/article/11696-eng.htm

Guh. It’s all so sad, whatever the cause of the Shermans’ deaths.

MOO

 

[Researchnut]

Anyone can write off charitable donations. Has nothing to do with their foundation.

Do you honestly think Honey was not in the top income tax bracket as a result of investment income? That would be highly unusual.

If she was paid as a board board member that is T-4 income tax. Same as everyone else.

Actually, as a combined income Honey with Bernard, she would be at the top of the income tax bracket no matter what.Depends on the filing of income tax, which none of us have access to.

Do you have a record of her investment portfolio?

Other than as a board member, I see no other public records. Maybe you have access to it,or can find it.

I found IMO questionable donations. One to the liberals for sure.It is a problem for Trudeau because Barry was a lobbyist. Which is why the ethics commision is involved .

I'm personally not on a witch hunt to prove that the Shermans had illegal dealings financially, or with regards to their past lawsuits other than to try to figure out with very little information what happened to these poor people. No one should die this way IMO.

Again, for me it is the physical evidence from the autopsies, toxicology etc. For instance, if they were murdered, was by someone professional? Mistakes can be made from a lack of evidence. An example of this would be the lack of defence wounds on Honey ,or Bernard. Secondary injuries.I'm still hopuing that someone can find another case in which a wealthy couple committed suicide by hanging.

 

[Researchnut]

“Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).”

Agreed. However none were wealthy couple. Not one wealthy couple has died this way.Not anywhere that I can find. I would think it would be reported in some newspaper. I'm hoping someone finds a case like it.

 

[Jennifer17]

“Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).”

Agreed. However none were wealthy couple. Not one wealthy couple has died this way.Not anywhere that I can find. I would think it would be reported in some newspaper. I'm hoping someone finds a case like it.

BBM. If you are discounting suicide by hanging because it hasn't happened before, how many double murders of wealthy couples by hanging have happened. I would say that that is a lot rarer.

 

[Tighthead]

Actually, as a combined income Honey with Bernard, she would be at the top of the income tax bracket no matter what.Depends on the filing of income tax, which none of us have access to.

Do you have a record of her investment portfolio?

Other than as a board member, I see no other public records. Maybe you have access to it,or can find it.

I found IMO questionable donations. One to the liberals for sure.It is a problem for Trudeau because Barry was a lobbyist. Which is why the ethics commision is involved .

I'm personally not on a witch hunt to prove that the Shermans had illegal dealings financially, or with regards to their past lawsuits other than to try to figure out with very little information what happened to these poor people. No one should die this way IMO.

Again, for me it is the physical evidence from the autopsies, toxicology etc. For instance, if they were murdered, was by someone professional? Mistakes can be made from a lack of evidence. An example of this would be the lack of defence wounds on Honey ,or Bernard. Secondary injuries.I'm still hopuing that someone can find another case in which a wealthy couple committed suicide by hanging.

Most people with private companies use dividends to effectively split income anyway.

Of course I don’t have access to her portfolio, and I didn’t make that assertion, but I bet you stroked yourself asking that question super chief. If you think someone worth $2 billion, largely through interest in a private company doesn’t have significant investment income I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

“Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).”

Agreed. However none were wealthy couple. Not one wealthy couple has died this way.Not anywhere that I can find. I would think it would be reported in some newspaper. I'm hoping someone finds a case like it.

Yes, that’s the point. The data points in different directions when considered in the Sherman case, imo, meaning there is no strong indicator either way for or against suicide or murder-suicide.

 

[JDG]

“Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).”

Agreed. However none were wealthy couple. Not one wealthy couple has died this way.Not anywhere that I can find. I would think it would be reported in some newspaper. I'm hoping someone finds a case like it.

IF solved, no matter how it occurred, these deaths and their circumstances will be 'one for the books' IMO

Watch law text books for this case......sadly, I think it stands on its own.

 

[SeesSeas]

A person's membership in the Order ceases when . . . (a) the person dies
http://www.gg.ca/document.aspx?id=14945

THE ORDER OF CANADA

TERMINATION OF MEMBERSHIP IN THE ORDER

25. A person's membership in the Order ceases when
(a) the person dies;
(b) the Governor General accepts the person's resignation from the Order, which resignation shall have been made in writing and given to the Secretary General; or
(c) the Governor General makes an Ordinance terminating the person's appointment to the Order.