Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[JDG]

With all do respect, you would really have no idea what they were taught or how they were parented. Are you honestly judging them based on their grief stricken, traumatized states at the memorial service? Anger can be a trauma response. Angry can be a grief response. Dissociation can be a trauma response. Dissociation can be a grief response. I could go on, but all of that, added with the fact that they were in front of thousands of people at a televised event memorializing their dead parents, is significant. The fact that Jonathon could speak at all is remarkable.

So true Grey-St.

IMO, there was a lot fear in Jonathans speech and demeanour as well. Fear can be mistaken for anger. He used the phrase 'snuffed out' and commented that he and his family were going to keep in touch daily, which I took as a sign they were very unnerved and not convinced that the perps were done with their family yet. He and they had cut out close friends, possibly to be safer or feel safer, as they had no information but two members of their families were dead and hanging by the pool. Not knowing who one can trust, what to do, etc. Thats what I saw......IMO


It was in MSM that they immediately upped the security around family members as soon as this crime happened. IMO

 

[Veeduck]

Locking the door does nothing to slow the discovery. The only people that are going to try to open that door have a key for it anyway. Why the pool area? There are not too many good places to hang yourself in a home, especially for two people. Closets are a common choice, but I'd rather go looking over a beautiful pool, wouldn't you?

I didn’t mean that no-one would be able to enter the house; only that if the front door was left unlocked, and the Shermans were nowhere to be found, it might alert the house staff that something was amiss. TPS hasn’t said whether staff worked in the mansion on Dec 14, but they did say a ‘staff member’ was there when police arrived on Dec 15. Locking the front door may (or may not) have bought the killer more time before police began collecting evidence.


I believe the pool area was chosen for the same reason of delaying discovery of the bodies. BTW, a closer examination of the pool photo shows that its covered, and I personally wouldn’t want a pool covering to be the last thing I see. I do like some of the other points you’ve made, though.

 

[kay74]

When we sold many of our homes, we never allowed a lockbox on them. Realtors from all over can get the code and come in. Sure they would give their info but they bring in people who might give false info or wonder around the home themselves which happened to me on one home. I was home, the realtor stayed upstairs and the people stayed downstairs for quite awhile. It was upsetting. I should have spoke up but I didn't.

 

[JDG]

At the end of the video, the reporter said she was told by TPS spokesman Mark Pugash that 'when they release this scene (the Sherman home that is still under police seal) they will let the public know.'

That's promising if we can expect a statement and possibly a news conference once they have completed investigating the Sherman home.

I imagine with PI Tom Klatt's investigators canvassing the neighbourhood, the TPS might have their backs up no matter how much mutual respect they have for each other.

Greenspan didn't address the leaks about the belts, location of the bodies and that HS was injured/killed first in another part of the home than where the sources said she was ultimately found etc. If that were all not true I'd expect him to address it and to ask for retraction from the MSM that reported it.

Hi Lexiintoronto, do you have a link that Tom Klatts investigators are canvassing the neighbourhood? I must have missed it.

 

[Grey-St]

Hi Lexiintoronto, do you have a link that Tom Klatts investigators are canvassing the neighbourhood? I must have missed it.

"Four members of Thomas Klatt Investigations, including retired 30-year Toronto Police veterans Martin Woodhouse and John McGown, were canvassing the neighbourhood on Tuesday."

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-someone-could-have-entered-shermans-home-lawyer

 

[andreww]

I didn’t mean that no-one would be able to enter the house; only that if the front door was left unlocked, and the Shermans were nowhere to be found, it might alert the house staff that something was amiss. TPS hasn’t said whether staff worked in the mansion on Dec 14, but they did say a ‘staff member’ was there when police arrived on Dec 15. Locking the front door may (or may not) have bought the killer more time before police began collecting evidence.


I believe the pool area was chosen for the same reason of delaying discovery of the bodies. BTW, a closer examination of the pool photo shows that its covered, and I personally wouldn’t want a pool covering to be the last thing I see. I do like some of the other points you’ve made, though.

We don't know if the pool was covered or not.

 

[dotr]

January 12 2018
https://globalnews.ca/news/3960955/barry-honey-sherman-toronto-police-guard-house/

Barry and Honey Sherman: Toronto police continue to guard house 4 weeks after couple’s deaths

Four weeks after Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their Toronto home, officers continue to guard the property around the clock, as investigators continue to probe the circumstances surrounding the couple’s deaths.

Marked Toronto police cruisers have been regularly seen in front of the Sherman home on Old Colony Road near Bayview Avenue and Highway 401 multiple times over the past several weeks by Global News crews, including Friday morning

.

 

[human]

Why do you think they are guarding the house? Seems strange for a murder suicide

 

[Timekeeper65]

Why do you think they are guarding the house? Seems strange for a murder suicide

Unless it isn’t M/S

 

[Tighthead]

Why do you think they are guarding the house? Seems strange for a murder suicide

Because if it is M/S they have to do an exhaustive/excessive investigation for the sake of optics and scrutiny.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a few members of TPS are happy to hold the scene just to make the private investigators cool their heels. It kills two birds with one stone.

 

[dotr]

Wondering if the paintings in the house are still there?
In the video of HS dancing with her instructor, what appears to be a Freda K painting can be seen.
Many art heists have occurred in recent years, fwiw..
imo speculation..
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...apotex-founder-barry-sherman/article37348222/

Lights were on inside the home last night, as police officers worked inside, illuminating what appeared to be a Frida Kahlo canvas.

A neighbour said that despite their vast wealth, the Shermans lived a low-key life.

Painting @ 1:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-WYZ6WOhBA

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Hi Lexiintoronto, do you have a link that Tom Klatts investigators are canvassing the neighbourhood? I must have missed it.

The CP24 reporter starts talking about them and then shows footage of them starting at the 1:20 mark in this video: https://www.cp24.com/mobile/video?clipId=1300043

ETA: I just noticed Grey-St already answered the question- thank you, Grey

 

[Twinkle]

Wondering if the paintings in the house are still there?
In the video of HS dancing with her instructor, what appears to be a Freda K painting can be seen.
Many art heists have occurred in recent years, fwiw..
imo speculation..
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...apotex-founder-barry-sherman/article37348222/

Painting @ 1:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-WYZ6WOhBA

Good eye. I dont recall seeing that painting in the real estate photos. We can look at the photos on the internet archive but I don't have the link. Here is a screen cap from the video.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[deugirtni]

When we sold many of our homes, we never allowed a lockbox on them. Realtors from all over can get the code and come in. Sure they would give their info but they bring in people who might give false info or wonder around the home themselves which happened to me on one home. I was home, the realtor stayed upstairs and the people stayed downstairs for quite awhile. It was upsetting. I should have spoke up but I didn't.

Also, not sure on each individual realtor's/broker's policies, but it is conceivable that a person could phone the listing agent, identify himself as one of the almost-40,000 realtors in Toronto, and be given the code to the lockbox. Some realtors may have an agreement with clients whereby they wouldn't allow any showings without the listing agent's presence, some may not? Also, where is the lockbox code info kept? Does receptionist have access? Who else? Is anyone other than the listing agent able to give it out? What kind of credentials do any of them require from an agent before giving the code out?

 

[human]

I think if they are guarding paintings, perhaps they should be placed in a proper place of secured storage rather than having LE guard them

 

[deugirtni]

I think they have to guard to ensure the integrity of the crimescene - if they release the home, and then the hired investigators subsequently claim they found something to implicate someone - why didn't the TPS find same thing? They could be erasing any possibility of any other parties gaining access and depositing something into the crimescene, as well as letting it be known publicly that there can't be any of that, later. Butt covering. jmo. Interesting however, that they can't farm it out to a security firm?

 

[dotr]

I think if they are guarding paintings, perhaps they should be placed in a proper place of secured storage rather than having LE guard them

January 11 2018
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/01/11/toronto-police-staffing/

Saunders said he has added another 523 officers to the front line since last May and assigned more officers to cover larger areas.

“One of the key and critical pieces … is reducing the cost-for-service,” he told reporters. “That is fundamental if we’re going to be able to modernize.”

Saunders suggested it’s a waste to have skilled officers directing traffic and protecting crime scenes, and said there are some calls they shouldn’t be going to.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

FWIW- Tom Klatt (TK) also worked with the wife of the then-missing Whitby teacher, Jeffrey Boucher (JB) in 2014. Mrs. Boucher joined WS to take part in the discussion here.

TK also canvassed JB's neighbourhood after LE stopped their active search for JB, and found a neighbour who said she saw JB go for his morning jog hours after the last confirmed sighting by the family. The neighbour also said that JB was wearing shorts- unusual for a jog in winter- but something he might wear if the temperature was as mild as it was on that morning.

According to JB's wife, LE had not told her about this possible witness and what she may have seen. (With good reason- LE have good reasons to protect what they uncover).

TK may run a parallel investigation of the Sherman deaths and uncover the same clues as LE, but with the difference that he can divulge everything he finds with the family.

 

[JayFriend]

Why do you think they are guarding the house? Seems strange for a murder suicide

Now that the pressure is on not to simply dismiss it as a simple murder suicide, maybe they're still investigating the crime scene. At least they have to keep up the pretense. If they took down the police tapes and left the house, perhaps the family PIs would get access and start their own investigation inside. Also, if they abandoned investigation at the house, the public would expect a statement why. While LE is still investigating, they're not obliged to release any information.

 

[Grey-St]

FWIW- Tom Klatt (TK) also worked with the wife of the then-missing Whitby teacher, Jeffrey Boucher (JB) in 2014. Mrs. Boucher joined WS to take part in the discussion here.

TK also canvassed JB's neighbourhood after LE stopped their active search for JB, and found a neighbour who said she saw JB go for his morning jog hours after the last confirmed sighting by the family. The neighbour also said that JB was wearing shorts- unusual for a jog in winter- but something he might wear if the temperature was as mild as it was on that morning.

According to JB's wife, LE had not told her about this possible witness and what she may have seen. (With good reason- LE have good reasons to protect what they uncover).

TK may run a parallel investigation of the Sherman deaths and uncover the same clues as LE, but with the difference that he can divulge everything he finds with the family.

I remember this case, and it was so very strange.

I know this is off topic, and I apologize, but do you know if TK concluded anything differently than LE in regards to JB's death? Or if he uncovered anything compelling along the way?

Regardless, thanks for the information. That's useful to know how differently LE and PI's investigate and share with the family.