Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[JDG]

(This re. the Frank article.) LOL! I don't believe such a job exists anymore.

O/T Yep, just googled them and there are proofreading jobs for blogs and books. Good luck with your new career. ;-))

 

[ilovepierre]

Can't imagine !!!

Law firm says 40 women pregnant in wake of birth control pill recall

TORONTO – A law firm in Thunder Bay, Ontario that launched an $800-million class action lawsuit against the company that recalled a birth control pill in Canada is claiming that 40 women are now pregnant.

In the wake of Apotex’s recall of birth control pill Alysena in April, lawyers at Watkins Law Professional Corporation says that 40 women are pregnant while other women have stepped forward to join the class action.

Read more: https://globalnews.ca/news/568691/l...regnant-in-wake-of-birth-control-pill-recall/

This would explain why my birth control changed!
I was taking Alysena for about 6 months and then when I got a new refill, it was changed to Aviane (which weirdly enough is marketed by Teva)!

 

[scadagirl28]

The frank article keeps mentioning they were pushed into the pool. 1 and second article. Wouldn't that indicate drowning instead of strangulation? It also mentions "possible" and "presumably" . Sounds like us talking about the case .

 

[ilovepierre]

The frankmag article is to be taken with a grain of salt.
It's a satirical publication and shouldn't be considered a source of MSM.

IMO

 

[Jackeee]

:scared: Who’s on first?

 

[rhenium]

Hi, I just registered on this website after reading your posts for the past few weeks. Although it is already mid-January, I hope it is still appropriate to wish every member of this crime solving community a very happy and successful New Year.



On a different note, I’d like some clarification regarding this excerpt from the Frank Magazine article: http://frankmag.ca/2018/01/26787/
“Presumably, the couple was first gagged, led to the swimming pool, also underground, tied by belts or ropes – or both- to the metal railing and then pushed into the water.”



Based on news articles, I always imagined them at the far end of the pool room positioned on the floor in a reclining position somewhere between sitting and lying, facing the wall with legs straight out and their back toward the pool. Would anybody else here visualize them the same way?

 

[JayFriend]

The frank article keeps mentioning they were pushed into the pool. 1 and second article. Wouldn't that indicate drowning instead of strangulation? It also mentions "possible" and "presumably" . Sounds like us talking about the case .

A lot of speculation there, but very possible. I postulate the killer(s) strangled them both, then set them up on the edge of the pool with their necks secured to the railing, then pushed them forward until the ligatures (belts, ropes, whatever) tightened.

 

[dotr]

Hi, I just registered on this website after reading your posts for the past few weeks. Although it is already mid-January, I hope it is still appropriate to wish every member of this crime solving community a very happy and successful New Year.



On a different note, I’d like some clarification regarding this excerpt from the Frank Magazine article: http://frankmag.ca/2018/01/26787/
“Presumably, the couple was first gagged, led to the swimming pool, also underground, tied by belts or ropes – or both- to the metal railing and then pushed into the water.”



Based on news articles, I always imagined them at the far end of the pool room positioned on the floor in a reclining position somewhere between sitting and lying, facing the wall with legs straight out and their back toward the pool. Would anybody else here visualize them the same way?

Welcome to Ws rhenium!
Never too late to wish a Happy New Year, thanks and the same to you!
Many of the reports are from " sources " and are not necessarily facts and much of what is posted here is speculation and opinion.
Having said that, not sure why, but i assumed they were each facing the pool, but you might be correct because we really do not know what happened, or how it happened.
As for being pushed into the pool, no idea if there was water in it or not, all the pictures shown, looks like the pool had some sort of cover on it.
Any which way you look at it, the situation is very strange, imo, speculation.

:newyear::welcome:

 

[JayFriend]

The frankmag article is to be taken with a grain of salt.
It's a satirical publication and shouldn't be considered a source of MSM.

IMO

LOL! These days MSM has become very biased and political, so I take that with a grain of salt also.

 

[ilovepierre]

A lot of speculation there, but very possible. I postulate the killer(s) strangled them both, then set them up on the edge of the pool with their necks secured to the railing, then pushed them forward until the ligatures (belts, ropes, whatever) tightened.

That's been my theory as well.

 

[scadagirl28]

Jay, So if I have it right, you are saying the killer/s strangle them one way and then put them in position near the pool. Do you think they did that to hide how they initially were killed ?

 

[AddyFinch]

Sitting them together looking at the pool is sick.
Pushing them into the pool with hands behind their back causes hanging, and prevents them from trying to release tension on belt. I assumed the pool was a lap pool, which aren't usually very deep, therefore they might be able to touch bottom, hence no hanging. If they were previously strangled, they wouldn't be able to drown.
? how would hit men know the depth of the lap pool?
?why take the time to stage the pool scene?
?why strangle, then hang on rail? Already dead.
?why pool and not hot tub area?
? pool would be filled for better showing of house to prospective buyers
I think boots on, is a definite clue re timing, and the staging of the pool scene...... huge message.
Even if this was a murder suicide, the pool staging is weird. Very weird.

 

[ilovepierre]

Sitting them together looking at the pool is sick.
Pushing them into the pool with hands behind their back causes hanging, and prevents them from trying to release tension on belt. I assumed the pool was a lap pool, which aren't usually very deep, therefore they might be able to touch bottom, hence no hanging. If they were previously strangled, they wouldn't be able to drown.
? how would hit men know the depth of the lap pool?
?why take the time to stage the pool scene?
?why strangle, then hang on rail? Already dead.
?why pool and not hot tub area?
? pool would be filled for better showing of house to prospective buyers
I think boots on, is a definite clue re timing, and the staging of the pool scene...... huge message.
Even if this was a murder suicide, the pool staging is weird. Very weird.

BBM
To make it appear as murder/suicide or double suicide.

IMO

 

[JDG]

How does a person suicide while wearing a winter coat, pulled down and backwards from their backs and hang themselves without using their arms? Push your head through the belt and 'hope' it works? hmmmm

IF its a murder/suicide, how does the suicide hang themselves from the railing in these circumstances?

As another poster stated last night, they were murdered. A no brainer.

Yes, I concur. Its beyond very weird.

 

[ldlager]

How does a person suicide while wearing a winter coat, pulled down and backwards from their backs and hang themselves without using their arms? Push your head through the belt and 'hope' it works? hmmmm

IF its a murder/suicide, how does the suicide hang themselves from the railing in these circumstances?

As another poster stated last night, they were murdered. A no brainer.

Yes, I concur. Its beyond very weird.

jdg there have been a number links posted previously and also other references to cases of suicide that involved a similar method of death by suicide. I recall robin williams was one of the cases referred to, and there was also the canadian professional wrestler (can't remember his name), as well as others. One guy did it from a tree branch after he had taped his own hands and feet. I can easily see a scenario where you put your neck through the belt, use your feet to twist around a couple of times, and then lean forward and let your body weight do the rest. Sorry to be so graphic. Not saying that's what happened, bUt it is certainly possible and therefore in my view murder suicide cannot be ruled out based on the few FACTS we actually have . IMO.

 

[JDG]

Was Robin Williams found with his arms behind his back? I don't recall. IMO

I know many people hang themselves, L'Wren Scott did it using a door knob and she was very tall. She just lay down, facing forward.IMO

Well, we do not have any FACTS, other than COD. At least officially. IMO

I suspect the second article is very close to the truth and wish I had been able to link/read the third article. IMO

Its a combination of their ages, their infirmities and the energy, I guess, that it would require for either Sherman to do all of this. IMO

IMO, its not impossible but its really far fetched and beyond.

From day one, Ive felt they were killed by a professional. This is not a half baked job......they were in/out and it was all done in under 10 minutes, probably. IMO

Any other conclusion will confound me.

 

[MistyWaters]

How does a person suicide while wearing a winter coat, pulled down and backwards from their backs and hang themselves without using their arms? Push your head through the belt and 'hope' it works? hmmmm

IF its a murder/suicide, how does the suicide hang themselves from the railing in these circumstances?

As another poster stated last night, they were murdered. A no brainer.

Yes, I concur. Its beyond very weird.

This is my sticking point as well. I think the physical maneuvering required of a suicide in that manner would be an extraordinary feat for a typical 75 year old. The joints just aren't nearly as limber as they once were (I can personally attest to that). And if the belt was loose enough to put ones head through....how could one be certain it would achieve the desired results? I also don't understand how a person could securely restrain their own arms with a coat or jacket.

 

[SeesSeas]

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/7mistakes.htm

The Seven Major Mistakes in Suicide Investigation
By Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S.
Homicide and Forensic Consultant

Originally published by Law & Order Magazine, Vol. 61 No. 1 January, 2013 pp 54-567​

Mistake#1 Assuming the Case is A Suicide Based on the Initial Report
Mistake#2 Assuming “The Suicide Position” At the Crime Scene
Mistake#3 Not Handling “The Suicide” as a Homicide Investigation
Mistake#4 Failure to Conduct Victimology
Mistake#5 Failure to Apply the Three Basic Investigative Considerations To Establish if the Death is Suicidal in Nature
Mistake#6 Failure to Properly Document any Suicide Notes
Mistake#7 Failure to Take Each Factor to its Ultimate Conclusion

 

[JayFriend]

Jay, So if I have it right, you are saying the killer/s strangle them one way and then put them in position near the pool. Do you think they did that to hide how they initially were killed ?

That's debatable. If the killers wanted to stage a murder suicide there would be no purpose in setting them both up side by side in an identical fashion. I'm more inclined to think an execution intended to send a message to somebody. Big, powerful players involved. That would explain the cone of silence.

 

[ldlager]

This is my sticking point as well. I think the physical maneuvering required of a suicide in that manner would be an extraordinary feat for a typical 75 year old. The joints just aren't nearly as limber as they once were (I can personally attest to that). And if the belt was loose enough to put ones head through....how could one be certain it would achieve the desired results? I also don't understand how a person could securely restrain their own arms with a coat or jacket.

you put your head through while wearing a jacket normally. Tighten the belt with your hands, or simply turn around a couple of times to twist the belt tighter. Shrug your jacket partway off (just like as if you are taking it off). Lean forward or fall to your knees. This takes no special strength or dexterity imo.