Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[ldlager]

The murder-suicide theory was widely accepted here, with many folks also being on the fence. What I'm questioning though, is if it's possible for BS to bound his wrists so tightly as to leave markings, and then remove himself from being so tightly bound. Put your wrists together and imagine securing something tightly around them with your own hands. Then to remove it? I really don't know if it can be done, no matter how intelligent BS was.

i think just use rope or a zip tie and rotate or turn your wrists back and forth so as to leave marks. Keep scissors or a knife handy, pick up the knife or scissors, turn the blade towards your stomach and cut the ligature. It’s easily done actually, I did it many times as a teenager doing magic. Just imo, it is certainly possible, may or may not be what happened.

 

[Veeduck]

I think if this as a hit (professional ), there is very little evidence. Add on the contamination of crime scene by 1-3 paramedics, 2-4 firemen,4 police, 1 real estate agent, 1 housekeeper.(all these numbers are guesses only, based on usual numbers of any medical emergency call.)
I wonder if one of them was killed first, then second one nabbed coming in front door later.Wasn’t HS car out front? One man could over power her, but surely it would take two for BS?
Hand ligatures? To control them til they got to where death was going to occur. Very doubtful a killer would drag dead bodies?
I don’t care what anyone says, but propping them up in attempts of a sitting position at poolside, is a message. A clean professional hit isn’t in the staging business. To me it smells of a sarcastic immature statement. Who’s?
Big pharma, or trashy druggie cousins?
I think the leak is genuine, why else would Donovan put his cred on the line? Whether it as a smart move or not???
I also think...if prof hit, you will never find killers, but bunglers like the cousins...only matter of time.

Bump!

 

[Inthedetails]

I haven't posted in ages, but when the case first started, I did consider murder-suicide as a strong possibility, though I sat on the fence.

I'm not on the fence anymore. I think this was double murder. That's the "what." Not sure about the how, who, or why.

jmopinion at the moment

 

[dotr]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

This is horrible, poor Honey!
It's like adding insult to injury.

How long was HS left there on that tile, face down and bleeding?
This means the perp(s) were there for quite some time. Perhaps while "they" went upstairs looking for the belts?

I'm wondering if "they" put the belt around her neck while she was lying there. Was she unconscious at the time?

And then the perp(s) sat her on her own blood, on that same tile where she had been bleeding on to hang her and kill her? That's awful! :tears:

I feel so bad for the children.

rbbm.imo.
The whole thing is just heartbreaking thinking of HS like that, especially the thought of her sitting in her own blood, reminiscent of this...
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...nnector-with-best-rolodex-in-the-country.html

A feature in Toronto Life in 2008 reported that Honey had multiple miscarriages. Three of her four children, with the exception of Lauren in 1975, were born via surrogacy

 

[Veeduck]

If it was a professional hit, then the hitmen would not have emotional involvement, just doing the job. But perhaps the one or ones giving the order may also have been present to witness it.

Or watching by smartphone? But I'd really like to know what makes the Sherman's investigative team think there is evidence of a professional hit or contract killing. I assume they are experts and must have good reasons for being so adamant (according to Donovan).

 

[AddyFinch]

There are many horrid descriptive thoughts / ideas / opinions etc re the manner of their deaths logged here, but every so often a kind reflective comment pops up (like the one above)I hope their children will always see the kind and good that will be printed now and the future about their Mum and Dad.

 

[AddyFinch]

Or watching by smartphone. But I'd really like to know what makes the Sherman's investigative team think there is evidence of a professional hit/contract killing. I assume they are experts and must have very good reason to be so adamant.

I wonder if we will ever know?
I think we need more info re this land development at 1 Yonge or 1 Bay? With the Iranian connection.

 

[JDG]

I'm wondering about neighbor's video surveillance cams in and around that area. Not just their street but cams on other nearby streets as well. Someone could have walked up to the home but been parked on another street but close enough to walk. Remember LE were looking in sewers up and down the street. Do they know someone had walked away from the home at some point? Just wondering...

LE did ask for video from nearby streets a few weeks back; even from a street that does not intersect with Old Colony Rd.
They were looking for parked vehicles and people on foot. Don't know if you know the area but not a lot of people on foot as a rule.
It was in MSM

 

[JDG]

I think he would have life insurance just as a "just in case" maybe?. Wasn't his company Apotex being sued by different companies and the cousins?, so what if the lawsuits took a big chunk of his net worth if he lost on the lawsuits? A lot of his money could have been tied up in different businesses (1 was the brewery (Steelback) and a lot was lost in that business venture I read somewhere. He was suing the former owner for over $100M)) also he made donations to places so how much of his net worth was "real $" ? I don't know how the "rich/billionaires" do things.

1Billion is 1,000 Million $
4Billion is 4,000 Million $

I don't know how the 'rich/billionaires' do things either but if I had 4,000 $M, I wouldn't be worrying about $100M.

Yes, BS had oodles of law suits on the go, he just won one last week, but he obviously usually won. If you lose the occasional one, c'est la vie.

Having said that, I have no idea really, I just can't see a 'frugal' man paying out for insurance when he's in the top 1% of the top 1%.

An aside, in every picture I have seen of BS, he's always in the same jacket and shirt. Only the ties change. Strikes me as 'unusual' and very frugal.

 

[Snoop Sister]

In this case tho I have a problem with the manner of death for the 2 victims (Barry had access to loads of pills at his disposal to commit suicide by overdose for he and his wife, easy way out and less macabre then the way they died). Also his age 75 and why at this time in his life decide to commit murder? Was there problems in the marriage? Lots of questions.
And in a suicide case life insurance isn't usually paid out to surviving children etc. Would Barry have wanted that? Just wondering out loud

It is standard in most insurance policies in Canada, that insurance won’t be paid out if the suicide happens in the first two years of the initiation of the policy. As, we discussed many times in the past on this thread, if a suicide is committed after the first two years of the start of the policy, the insurance will be paid out. My insurance policy states there would be no payout if suicide is committed in the first year but most policies states first two years.

Moreover, one can have millions one day or year and something could happen and poor the next year. Makes sense even if super wealthy to have life insurance as a back up as one never knows. Rags to riches and the reverse is also true.

 

[AddyFinch]

In answer to question re whether BS would even buy insurance....general consensus is yes. Apparently it is smart business sense for taxes etc. All the ultra wealthy have. Guess you learn something new every day.:thinking:

 

[Veeduck]

"As a rule," said Holmes, "the more bizarre a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be." - Conan Doyle

If so, then this case, when solved, will be blindingly obvious in retrospect.
:websleuther:

 

[cluciano63]

"As a rule," said Holmes, "the more bizarre a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be." - Conan Doyle

If so, then this case, when solved, will be blindingly obvious in retrospect.
:websleuther:

Jmo, it won’t be solved. It will remain a mystery, especially if LE arrives at a different conclusion from the family. Likely the investigation into their deaths will remain open, officially, but I doubt we will ever hear of any specific suspects or see a trial.

 

[JDG]

In answer to question re whether BS would even buy insurance....general consensus is yes. Apparently it is smart business sense for taxes etc. All the ultra wealthy have. Guess you learn something new every day.:thinking:

When it is solved, we may know. :waiting:

 

[AddyFinch]

Jmo, it won’t be solved. It will remain a mystery, especially if LE arrives at a different conclusion from the family. Likely the investigation into their deaths will remain open, officially, but I doubt we will ever hear of any specific suspects or see a trial.

Agree.....I’ll be delighted to eat crow if proven wrong, but i honestly think...there is no gripping evidence......

 

[PaulR]

Moreover, one can have millions one day or year and something could happen and poor the next year. Makes sense even if super wealthy to have life insurance as a back up as one never knows. Rags to riches and the reverse is also true.

If BS lost his fortune, he wouldn't be able to pay the life insurance premiums.

 

[nuff]

I'm guessing this brewery lawsuit is more to add to the list of whodunit. I can't see this being a professional hit as much as an anger killing because of the way they were left. I have my thoughts of who did this but I could be 100% wrong.

Not sure if anyone has posted this about the brewery. It went bankrupt a couple of years later.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/birth-of-a-beer-baron/article17988486/

 

[nuff]

Agree.....I’ll be delighted to eat crow if proven wrong, but i honestly think...there is no gripping evidence......

There is no "gripping" evidence that we know of. There may be much found either by TPS and/or by the private investigators that we don't know. I'll crawl out on a limb and predict that, within the next few days, TPS will announce that this was a double murder. Whether or not the perpetrators are identified and charged is another matter. It would be good to think so, but it all depends how good they were at covering their tracks.

 

[Tortoise]

1Billion is 1,000 Million $
4Billion is 4,000 Million $

I don't know how the 'rich/billionaires' do things either but if I had 4,000 $M, I wouldn't be worrying about $100M.

Yes, BS had oodles of law suits on the go, he just won one last week, but he obviously usually won. If you lose the occasional one, c'est la vie.

Having said that, I have no idea really, I just can't see a 'frugal' man paying out for insurance when he's in the top 1% of the top 1%.

An aside, in every picture I have seen of BS, he's always in the same jacket and shirt. Only the ties change. Strikes me as 'unusual' and very frugal.

Your post caught my eye and sparked a thought process. "top 1% of the top 1%"

BS was a threat to someone because of his wealth and influence on the political scene, he would be a threat to someone also wealthy and powerful but of different ideology, someone who is steering change at top level and needed this source of opposition eliminated. HS would be equally dangerous as BS' heir, she wasn't just in the wrong place at the wrong time. This rules out a pharmaceutical connection in my mind. It is someone who is also in the top 1% of the 1%, with authority and access to ex-military psychopathic quality personnel. I think it is political. This was efficient, quick and untraceable. I think police don't stand a chance of finding the culprit, there will be no trace. I don't think the PIs will solve it either, other than declaring it double murder.

The manner of death was to reduce them to nothing. It sounds as if they were left like sitting dogs with leashes on. More the process inflicted rather than the scene created.

That's as far as I'm going, I won't get into the political ideologies of the Shermans. As far as I'm concerned this was not the cousins or a spurned lover etc.

Murder suicide is right off the cards. In my opinion.

 

[MizStery]

Until we hear LE's confirmation about the wrists markings, I'm taking that piece of information with a big pinch of salt, because they couldn't even determine if the hands were tied in front or behind. We don't know if the 1st. autopsy also arrived to same conclusion about the wrists markings, or could the markings have been caused by bracelets, watches when the coats were pulled down?


https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]I just think there will be more leaks that 'drip drip' even more vague damming statements against LE & the Toronto Coroner. Otherwise the family would be releasing a notice to the press that their investigation had [/FONT][/FONT]unrefutable evidence [FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]that both BS & HS wrists had been bound together although were found unrestrained at the CS. Proof that a double murder had been committed. The announcement would be in front of media cameras too. The family and rightly so would demand to know why the Toronto Coroner missed and did not reveal the most critical detail of all. Thereby allowing LE to perpetrate an untruth (criminal in my opinion)about the death of their parents.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]I think even professional hitmen skilled to cover their tracts would still have to use [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]i.e.tie wraps to [/FONT][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]restrain two adults. And how could there not be obvious bruising and damage to the skin whether their victims were compliant during the deadly assault or not.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]I think the leaked information was never meant to be the smoking gun. But rather to sway the court of public opinion that both LE and the coroners office are incompetent and not to be believed.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]OK,go ahead and tear my interpretation apart.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]illowfight:

:cow:[/FONT][/FONT]
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