Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #5

[rhenium]

"Smith wanted us to infiltrate the company," says Whybrow, "put a half kilo of coke in [Sherman's] trunk, and get him stopped by a police contact we have [in Canada]." Flack says that another option Smith suggested was setting Sherman up in a sex sting with an underage partner.

What a great find, MizStery. And Barry was no angel either. He had his own underhanded ways of compromising his competition long before he became the target of Flack and Whybrow. MOO

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

As an entrepreneur, he hired private detectives to rummage through his competitor's garbage, then got a court order so he could barge into their head offices and seize their papers.

In the early 1990s, as Apotex and its competitor, Novopharm Ltd., raced to manufacture the anti-cholesterol drug Lovastatin, Barry hired private detectives to rummage through Novopharm's garbage, looking for evidence of stolen trade secrets.

 

[rhenium]

O/T
Someone way back asked about this. Other than the eyes, doesn’t Tom Klatt resemble a bit Robert De Niro? All I have is a link because I’m not yet allowed to post pictures.
http://www.tubefilter.com/2012/05/0...rises-partners-maker-studios-youtube-channel/

 

[Grey-St]

Thanks MizStery for providing that link, I had to step away for a bit. Reposting for easy find.
http://archive.fortune.com/magazine...ive/1999/09/06/265303/index.htm?src=longreads

To support my other thought, here is the link to the men BS was involved with for the condominium development.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ve-and-the-bitter-condo-feud/article30833853/

I find my mind often wandering back to these publications. I agree with others though, that the possibilities are endless. There political motivations, legalization of marijuana, opportunities, secrets, information we're not even privy to yet, it's endless. These are just a few examples I've provided of what we do know.

 

[ohreally]

Was he completely severed from the company? Or did he decide to be a silent partner/investor? That would be MY question in follow up to yours. But yes, what WOULD be the gain by killing them?

This was about revenge. I think we can be clear on that. But for WHAT?

I could be wrong, but I don't think had a partner in the generic drug business. My only understanding is that 5 years ago he stepped down from the day to day operations leaving someone else in charge of running the day to day operations. If it is revenge for something that was done in the company then I see why it is a possibility. Someone could hold him responsible.
What I don't get is why someone would have him killed over the pot pill. IMO anything to do the research or approvals on drugs the company is doing is not going to stop because he died. I could be wrong, and that is why I am interested in why others think it could be related to the pot pill.

 

[Hazel]

Having the thought of somebody being in the car waiting for them.. in the backseat... Forced them to drive home. One of my worst nightmares I always check my backseat. Wouldn't be hard to get around cameras if you are familiar with the victims. ?

That theory crossed my mind, and I too usually check the backseat.

Assuming it's double murder (though I'm still on the fence), the problem with that theory is the perpetrator(s) would have gone IN undetected, but the question is: How would they go OUT undetected?

In that case scenario, the perp(s) would have had access to the car keys, and could have easily driven away in one of the S's vehicles.

From what we have learned so far, it doesn't appear that any vehicle is missing.
That is ONE of the many other reasons I'm still sitting on the fence.

:fence:​

All just MOO, speculation fwiw, jmo

 

[ldlager]

I am one that believes this is a double murder. IMO it could be a hit or well planned murders. I think there are a lot of possibilities on why they were murdered. There isn't one possibility that I think is most likely to be the reason.
I do have a sincere question. My understanding is that BS was no longer running the every day operations of the company. I would think that if BS is killed the company would still carry on as they have been. So if the murders were because of the company what would be the gain be by killing them?

It was Barry’s company and he was the decider of which patents to challenge, and was the chief formulations expert. He was also the most knowledgeable on patent legislation. He was heavily involved in these areas. Moo

 

[Hazel]

I think you are missing that she was ambushed as soon as she got home. It sounds like the Sherman camp are insinuating that scenario. Did Barry go back to work after the meeting or did he go home at the same time as HS?

At this point we don't know for sure if the meeting with the architect took place that Wednesday evening.

IF that was the case, and IF BS went back to the office, I am assuming there will be evidence of that, either surveillance video at Apotex or some kind of automated registry of when someone opens the doors, and enters the premises.

Considering there is all kinds of drugs and chemicals stored in there, I suppose there is some kind of control of who comes in and out, specially after hours.

All JMO :moo:

 

[Satchie]

It was Barry’s company and he was the decider of which patents to challenge, and was the chief formulations expert. He was also the most knowledgeable on patent legislation. He was heavily involved in these areas. Moo

However, eliminating Barry and his wife wouldn't prevent the company from doing exactly what he'd have done. Unless you're implying the company management is complicit. Or perhaps they're next.

 

[tarabull]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada...1b-cannabis-deal-puts-pressure-on-competitors

 

[rhenium]

I'll go out on a limb and say what my gut is telling me.

-The Cousin(s) (explanation irrelevant at this point)
-The individual(s) BS was in business with regarding the condo development (I remember reading something suspect and dangerous about him/them)
-An individual(s) involved in the Pharmaceutical business (I remember reading about a competitor who basically stalked BS and tried to destroy him and his career in various ways, example: framing him to have involvement with prostitution/underage women)

I keep coming back to these three circumstances I've read about...and there it is. :dunno:

Although I’m still 50/50 between double murder and murder-suicide, I agree with your list, especially possible connections to the condo development.
I’d like to add another real estate connection to that list, the Old Colony Rd. residence.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-sued-builders-of-north-york-home.html

When Barry and Honey Sherman bought their North York property in 1985, they planned to spend $2.3 million to build their dream home.
But they noticed problems with the home within months of moving in, in 1991, with Barry describing it as “a disaster.”
After litigation against the house’s designers and builders, they wound up recouping $2 million of the contracted amount to construct the home, according to a 2006 judgment.
According to the judgment, “Mr. Sherman testified that there were so many things done wrong with respect to the construction of the house that it was a disaster.”

Having your house built for $2.3 million and being able to recoup $2 million of it takes some talent. The Shermans ended up having a new house for $300,000 plus whatever it cost them to fix the problems. The people involved with the construction not only lost money but must have been through an immense amount of stress during years of litigation, especially if the claims against them happened to be grossly exaggerated. In addition to that, given the Shermans’ far reaching connections, they might have been smeared and faced difficulties getting new contracts. MOO

During litigation, BS referred to the house as a disaster. Decades later they advertised the house as an architectural masterpiece. I imagine that could rip open some old wounds. MOO

According to the judgment, “Mr. Sherman testified that there were so many things done wrong with respect to the construction of the house that it was a disaster.”

The house near Bayview Ave. and Highway 401 was listed for sale this month at $6.9 million.
The 12,000 square foot house is an “architectural modern masterpiece of poured concrete and steel construction,” according to an online real estate listing. The home has indoor and outdoor pools and hot tubs, a tennis court and underground parking for six cars with a heated ramp. The five-plus-one bedroom, nine-bath home is two storeys and features hardwood floors and a balcony.
The lower floor is anchored by a massive garage, bordered by the indoor pool, a sauna, and changing room. Neighbouring rooms include a sitting room, recreation room and hobby room, and a nanny’s room with an en suite kitchen and bathroom.

If the double murder scenario is true and there is a connection to the contractors they sued, the trigger might have been the real estate listing in late November. And the pool room might have been chosen not only for its seclusion...but for its symbolic meaning. MOO
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

The faulty garage structure at the heart of the dispute, which included a tennis court on top and a sauna and underground pool inside, was a key part of their house. It was used for social events, such as charity functions and formal dinners.

They would obviously know the layout of the entire house, nonetheless, it would be still very difficult for them to get in and out of the house without being seen.

 

[nuff]

It was Barry’s company and he was the decider of which patents to challenge, and was the chief formulations expert. He was also the most knowledgeable on patent legislation. He was heavily involved in these areas. Moo

It was his company and he resisted taking it public, likely against the wishes and potential profit of others.

 

[tarabull]

From August 2017

https://canntrust.ca/canntrust-shares-begin-trading-monday-august-21-stock-symbol-trst/

 

[drama_farmer]

If the double murder scenario is true and there is a connection to the contractors they sued, the trigger might have been the real estate listing in late November. And the pool room might have been chosen not only for its seclusion...but for its symbolic meaning. MOO
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

snipped for focus

Just jumping off your speculative thoughts, rhenium: :thinking:

Without being privy to any details about the dispute, this is all just fantasy on my part, but let's pretend that BS and HS were very thorough (nit-picky?) about "issues" with the house, especially the pool area. What if they kept harping on minutiae like "the railings around the pool are too flimsy," or "the railings around the pool are not high enough/too high," etc. etc. Probably too "revenge murder fiction-y" for real life, but, at this point, who knows?

If deemed a M/S, the way (and where) the bodies were left may have everything to do with the reason they were killed.

 

[dotr]

Although I’m still 50/50 between double murder and murder-suicide, I agree with your list, especially possible connections to the condo development.
I’d like to add another real estate connection to that list, the Old Colony Rd. residence.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-sued-builders-of-north-york-home.html


Having your house built for $2.3 million and being able to recoup $2 million of it takes some talent. The Shermans ended up having a new house for $300,000 plus whatever it cost them to fix the problems. The people involved with the construction not only lost money but must have been through an immense amount of stress during years of litigation, especially if the claims against them happened to be grossly exaggerated. In addition to that, given the Shermans’ far reaching connections, they might have been smeared and faced difficulties getting new contracts. MOO

During litigation, BS referred to the house as a disaster. Decades later they advertised the house as an architectural masterpiece. I imagine that could rip open some old wounds. MOO


If the double murder scenario is true and there is a connection to the contractors they sued, the trigger might have been the real estate listing in late November. And the pool room might have been chosen not only for its seclusion...but for its symbolic meaning. MOO
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

They would obviously know the layout of the entire house, nonetheless, it would be still very difficult for them to get in and out of the house without being seen.

Ita with all of the above, except the part about getting into the house being difficult. Considering that most of the mansions likely have security systems ect. people still managed to break and enter a number of homes in the area.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/millions...reak-and-enters-in-bridle-path-area-1.3645295
October 2017

[h=1]Millions of dollars’ worth of valuables stolen during 160 break-and-enters in Bridle Path area[/h]

Silly, but i keep thinking of the similar sound of the words, ligature and litigation.
imo speculation.

 

[rhenium]

snipped for focus

Just jumping off your speculative thoughts, rhenium: :thinking:

Without being privy to any details about the dispute, this is all just fantasy on my part, but let's pretend that BS and HS were very thorough (nit-picky?) about "issues" with the house, especially the pool area. What if they kept harping on minutiae like "the railings around the pool are too flimsy," or "the railings around the pool are not high enough/too high," etc. etc. Probably too "revenge murder fiction-y" for real life, but, at this point, who knows?

If deemed a M/S, the way (and where) the bodies were left may have everything to do with the reason they were killed.

Hi drama_farmer, I would say it’s a safe guess that they were nit picky, and they might have complained about the railing being too flimsy. Your scenario could be spot on.

If it was a double murder, I would think the location had a meaning beyond the obvious. If it was M/S it might have been chosen for convenience. MOO

 

[kay74]

What a great find, MizStery. And Barry was no angel either. He had his own underhanded ways of compromising his competition long before he became the target of Flack and Whybrow. MOO

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/barry-sherman-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

Do you think he was doing this because one of these companies got hold of his patents.

 

[WINDSOR]

I apologise if this sounds like a conspiracy theory out of a 'B' movie, but.

Probably it was a professional hit, and the trouble taken to 'stage' the Sherman's bodies, makes me think that in terms of priority it was the,

a) Contractors who were stiffed by the Sherman's (Contractors sometimes have connections with illegal business providers).

b) Possibly Iranian connection (They have experts in these sorts of operations)

From what little I know, BS appeared to operate as if he could and would 'get' anybody he could or wanted to, through the courts. The message I see from the deaths, is something like....."See Barry and friends, we do not need the courts to get payback, if you F--K with us, we will F--K you back."

For this message to be truly effective, the people in the Sherman circle of influence will know who sent the message. It is many years after the house was built, but the Iranian involvement is relatively current, so you can see where my hunch is. If it were offshore workers, no charges will ever be laid, as this is far beyond the scope of even the best local police forces.

As an extra incentive, the Iranian government is very anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli. So even if the perpetrators are identified they will likely be protected by the Iranian government and never face justice in Canada.

Ask the Sherman's three closest business partners if they have an idea what went down. If they say nothing, they got the message.

IMO

 

[AddyFinch]

I believe that HS hit her head/face on the pool tile floor, while her hands were restrained behind her back.

Hence bloody floor, and no drips onto front of body. She had stopped bleeding by the time her neck was restrained on that darn railing. I believe she was dead at this point or blood on face had congealed and stopped bleeding. She was sitting in that pool of facial blood, while they hung her.

But why the pool room??

Winter jackets on, does mean they both were accosted either in car, or coming into house. Maybe the architect appointment was later in day, or maybe as suggested, they did go out for dinner.

Pharma?... cousins?... Iranian developers?... or Biker r/t weed production/control???
And we only need to wait until Friday evening?? Or so the rumour suggests, and the PI will have access to tramp about a contaminated crime scene. Makes no sense?? But if you have the money, then why not?

 

[AddyFinch]

I apologise if this sounds like a conspiracy theory out of a 'B' movie, but.

Probably it was a professional hit, and the trouble taken to 'stage' the Sherman's bodies, makes me think that in terms of priority it was the,

a) Contractors who were stiffed by the Sherman's (Contractors sometimes have connections with illegal business providers).

b) Possibly Iranian connection (They have experts in these sorts of operations)

From what little I know, BS appeared to operate as if he could and would 'get' anybody he could or wanted to, through the courts. The message I see from the deaths, is something like....."See Barry and friends, we do not need the courts to get payback, if you F--K with us, we will F--K you back."

For this message to be truly effective, the people in the Sherman circle of influence will know who sent the message. It is many years after the house was built, but the Iranian involvement is relatively current, so you can see where my hunch is. If it were offshore workers, no charges will ever be laid, as this is far beyond the scope of even the best local police forces.

As an extra incentive, the Iranian government is very anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli. So even if the perpetrators are identified they will likely be protected by the Iranian government and never face justice in Canada.

Ask the Sherman's three closest business partners if they have an idea what went down. If they say nothing, they got the message.

IMO

HALLELUJAH...................... Said succinctly !!!! Forget the B movie fear. Live on the ledge... with the rest of us.
I really have a feeling about this condo development, and you nailed it on the head.... the "Sherman Circle" knows exactly what that message is, and I don't mean the kids.

 

[rhenium]

Ita with all of the above, except the part about getting into the house being difficult. Considering that most of the mansions likely have security systems ect. people still managed to break and enter a number of homes in the area.

Dotr, I didn’t mean it was difficult to get into the house – I meant it would be difficult to get in and out of the house unseen by anybody or being captured on any of the neighbors’ surveillance video.

Silly, but i keep thinking of the similar sound of the words, ligature and litigation.

Hm, interesting. They can both choke you, physically or emotionally.