Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #5

[ABro]

Where does the CBC and the Toronto Star's Kevin Donovan state that their source was the private investigators? Donovan stated it was "sources with intimate knowledge of the Sherman family's investigation...".

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html


Quote Brian Greenspan:

“Again, I have no idea where they are getting their information,” he said. “If it’s from one of our people — and we will find out — that person will be dropped from our team.”

“I highly doubt it’s from anyone on our team,” Greenspan added.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-billionaire-shermans-slain-by-contract-killers


The source(s) may well be the private investigators, but it may also be that the family is the source. I'm glad Greenspan is looking into it.

You're right. I should have made it clearer that the source is either the private investigation team or the family or someone very close to the family.

The point is I trust that the reporters vetted the sources. They weren't quoting third hand gossip. Whoever leaked was clearly someone in a position to know.

 

[Grey-St]

With respect Grey-St you omitted to include the important first part of the quote from the article, which states “...family sources say the last known cellphone communication....”. The reference to family sources indicates to me that imo the family provided the info (directly or indirectly), and furthermore that potentially the last communication with family was wed during the day. Just moo

That's fine, I was just clarifying that the information still fits regarding the text/audio/email communications.

 

[Grey-St]

nope. The quote refers to both text and audio. I will assume that text includes email as well as text. The point is there is differing info about the last time either of their phones were used to communicate. Imo

I'd disagree. I don't think the information contradicts each other. Last text/audio communication occurred during the day. Then an email was sent around 8:30 PM. Jmo.

 

[pamelado2]

I do have an idea who the source was because the CBC and Kevin Donovan provided information about the source. Both those reporters have long track records of breaking important stories and there are no examples of either of them lying about the identity of sources.

Your decision to disbelieve them appears to be based on the fact you don't like the facts they report. Because you don't want to believe the leak came from the Sherman team, you make unfounded accusations of lying against credible journalists.

The initial information about the bodies being suspended from the pool railing and hands secured by jackets came from another reporter with a history of getting scoops from his sources, Joe Warmington.



This article was published on Dec. 19th. http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

The Frank magazine article, which you find so much more authoritative than the CBC, the Star and the Sun, appeared on Dec. 22. http://frankmag.ca/2017/12/what-happened-to-the-shermans/

It repeated much of the information already reported by Warmington and also added some new details.

My entire point in this discussion has been that we don't know who the source is. It was stated by Greenspan that it wasn't him or anyone in his office. The 7 people called "Team Sherman" in the article by CB. I personally do not believe he is lying. I do not believe they would leak anything especially since the family was so upset with the premature "leak" about the murder/suicide. Maybe it was the cleaning lady or someone who works in the pathologist's office, etc, etc, etc...

And I don't know what in the world you're talking about. I find Frank Mag "so much more authoritative"? Where in the world did you get that notion?!?!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[AddyFinch]

BS&HS both went to architect on Wed, she was killed in the same clothes as worn to architect, and BS emailed a coworker at 8:30 pm, then that means...
1. HS left the same clothes on post architect meeting because someone was coming over later that night? Or
2. She put the same clothes on the next day?
Most women i know, can’t wait to get into their scrubby clothes when they get home. Did she leave on knowing a visitor was coming, or was it just as easy to slip the same outfit on for next day?
3. Or did someone come over unexpectdly, and she quickly put the same outfit back on?
Its rather late at night for someone to come after BS was emailing at 8:30.
4. Did they go back out after architects?
As a woman, my choice would be to get into my comfy clothes, and leave same outfit laid out for the evening vistors, who must have come after 8:30.
If M/S it would mean HS was killed and BS waited to commit suicide until after he sent email.
5.I wonder what the email said?
And ABro...you hit the nail on the head. If contract hit, those kids are at risk. They should have spent some $$$on personal security.

 

[pamelado2]

The Sherman team didn't deny it. Greenspan said he would get to the bottom of it.

Before printing information like this, the press would have to be absolutely sure of their source and the articles would be lawyered. (Please note this is different from being sure that the source's interpretation of events was correct)

They can't print lies about who the source is or they could easily be sued for defamation.

If the CBC and Kevin Donovan, one of the most respected investigative reporters in the country, say their source was the private investigators that's who their source was.

But they didn't say that's who it was and Greenspan did deny it.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[pamelado2]

BS&HS both went to architect on Wed, she was killed in the same clothes as worn to architect, and BS emailed a coworker at 8:30 pm, then that means...
1. HS left the same clothes on post architect meeting because someone was coming over later that night? Or
2. She put the same clothes on the next day?
Most women i know, can’t wait to get into their scrubby clothes when they get home. Did she leave on knowing a visitor was coming, or was it just as easy to slip the same outfit on for next day?
3. Or did someone come over unexpectdly, and she quickly put the same outfit back on?
Its rather late at night for someone to come after BS was emailing at 8:30.
4. Did they go back out after architects?
As a woman, my choice would be to get into my comfy clothes, and leave same outfit laid out for the evening vistors, who must have come after 8:30.
If M/S it would mean HS was killed and BS waited to commit suicide until after he sent email.
5.I wonder what the email said?
And ABro...you hit the nail on the head. If contract hit, those kids are at risk. They should have spent some $$$on personal security.

The email could have been sent from her phone while still in the architect's office. But we have no idea what time that appointment was.



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[AddyFinch]

Dont lets forget....high profile case.....uniformed stretch too thin, understaffed, poor 911 response time...etc etc......= TPAssociation pushing a mandate.
Maybe the lack of news, and release of house, is to drive home a point.
Or maybe they are slow because they really are understaffed.
The shootings and arrest of Mr McArthur adds to it. All method to the madness

 

[dotr]

Regarding the Sherman offspring and security.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/two-legacies-one-dark-mystery-toronto-elite-reeling-after-

violent-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman
The family has retained a lawyer and a private investigation firm, and family members have taken steps to enhance their personal security.

 

[Grey-St]

BS&HS both went to architect on Wed, she was killed in the same clothes as worn to architect, and BS emailed a coworker at 8:30 pm, then that means...
1. HS left the same clothes on post architect meeting because someone was coming over later that night? Or
2. She put the same clothes on the next day?
Most women i know, can’t wait to get into their scrubby clothes when they get home. Did she leave on knowing a visitor was coming, or was it just as easy to slip the same outfit on for next day?
3. Or did someone come over unexpectdly, and she quickly put the same outfit back on?
Its rather late at night for someone to come after BS was emailing at 8:30.
4. Did they go back out after architects?
As a woman, my choice would be to get into my comfy clothes, and leave same outfit laid out for the evening vistors, who must have come after 8:30.
If M/S it would mean HS was killed and BS waited to commit suicide until after he sent email.
5.I wonder what the email said?
And ABro...you hit the nail on the head. If contract hit, those kids are at risk. They should have spent some $$$on personal security.

I don't think it's that complex. I think they could have had an evening meeting with the architect, that finished around 8:30 PM. BS could have responded to his email before driving home. They arrive home, and in the clothes they are still wearing from the day, whatever happened, happened.

It's also been said that they had their jackets on. I don't think HS went and changed to her comfies, to put her clothing back on along with her jacket, because guests were coming over.

 

[AddyFinch]

Duh....i’m bagged....lol forgot about the darn jackets:gaah:

 

[AddyFinch]

I’m sure if they gave us the evidence (if there is any), we would have this solved lickety splits.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't think it's that complex. I think they could have had an evening meeting with the architect, that finished around 8:30 PM. BS could have responded to his email before driving home. They arrive home, and in the clothes they are still wearing from the day, whatever happened, happened.

It's also been said that they had their jackets on. I don't think HS went and changed to her comfies, to put her clothing back on along with her jacket, because guests were coming over.

This makes me wonder who knew they had the meeting with the architect that night? Did someone know they would be out of the house and know approx time they would be home so they could be waiting for them?

jmo

 

[Sphinx]

This makes me wonder who knew they had the meeting with the architect that night? Did someone know they would be out of the house and know approx time they would be home so they could be waiting for them?

jmo

Would it have been easy to highjack their cars in the Architect's parking lot at night ? Is there any video from street cameras, or at the Architect's of them getting in their cars alone, and driving off ? LE seemed very interested in the cars, and towed them away.

If the killers had been in the house before the murders, as real estate agents, or household cleaning staff, health workers, etc. their dna in the Sherman home could be explained away. I think that perhaps a very high level hit would have had someone working on the inside to gain personal knowledge about the house floor plan, schedules, parking habits, and possibly access to house keys/car keys in order to make copies, and assure quick, easy entrance. A professional contract would involve planning to make sure everything went quickly and smoothly. For some reason, Honey had a chance to struggle, and was injured in the process, suffering bloody wounds to her face, and Barry did not. I wonder too if most of the blood was near the pool, and not elsewhere in the house ? They did say in MSM articles that there was very little blood on her upper clothing, so she likely did not have a chance to walk much after the struggle. Probably she never got up again ; they hung her body, after it lay on the tile floor by the pool for some time, making a pool of blood, and she may have already been dead by then. Perhaps it was women attacking Honey, and men attacking Barry. I suspect that each had a team assigned to them. IMO

 

[Veeduck]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/22/deaths-of-canadian-billionaire-wife-a-tantalizing-mystery.html

Greenspan said the family was told twice that police were done with the property, only to have them insist they need more time.

My guess is that police will finally release the Sherman's residence to Klatt; et. al Friday evening, when people are less likely to notice it. TPS may also choose that time to formally reclassify this case as a double homicide.

 

[nuff]

BS&HS both went to architect on Wed, she was killed in the same clothes as worn to architect, and BS emailed a coworker at 8:30 pm, then that means...
1. HS left the same clothes on post architect meeting because someone was coming over later that night? Or
2. She put the same clothes on the next day?
Most women i know, can’t wait to get into their scrubby clothes when they get home. Did she leave on knowing a visitor was coming, or was it just as easy to slip the same outfit on for next day?
3. Or did someone come over unexpectdly, and she quickly put the same outfit back on?
Its rather late at night for someone to come after BS was emailing at 8:30.
4. Did they go back out after architects?
As a woman, my choice would be to get into my comfy clothes, and leave same outfit laid out for the evening vistors, who must have come after 8:30.
If M/S it would mean HS was killed and BS waited to commit suicide until after he sent email.
5.I wonder what the email said?
And ABro...you hit the nail on the head. If contract hit, those kids are at risk. They should have spent some $$$on personal security.

Do we actually know what time the appointment with the architect was? I haven't seen that anywhere - could have been evening, and BS' email (where was that reported?) could have been sent before they came home or en route. Or, he could have been forced to send it to muddy the waters. This is all complete speculation and IMO it's not useful. It's unlikely the medical examiner was able to identify a precise time of death for either, given the elapsed time before the bodies were found.

Plus, we don't know whether the children have hired private security. I doubt that would be made public.

 

[Veeduck]

http://frankmag.ca/2018/01/26787/

It's considered likely that two men committed the murders, and that one or two others were positioned nearby for support. If that thinking is accurate, it adds further evidence of the professionalism of the hit ...

BBM

IMO, this statement is pure speculation, whether by Frank or the P.I.s themselves. Two perps inside the house to ensure control over both victims, and additional perp(s) as lookouts. Probably right, though I doubt there is physical evidence of this, let alone proof of the "professionalism of the hit."

 

[BUF]

This makes me wonder who knew they had the meeting with the architect that night? Did someone know they would be out of the house and know approx time they would be home so they could be waiting for them?

jmo

That thought has also crossed my mind. I wonder if they may have gone out to eat after they met the architect, initially going in two cars. Honey may have gone home alone after, Barry may have stopped by the office then and sent that 8:30 email. Maybe they got Honey when she arrived home, then bound her waiting for Barry. Honey may have even told someone of their plans in that Wed afternoon phone call...could even be a simple thing as telling the house staff not to make dinner that night as they would be going out after their appointment.

Even though the PIs have not gotten in the house yet, they probably have been checking all this other stuff out, and have gotten quite a bit of leads.

Anyways, just a thought I had.

 

[Reachingfornettles]

Having the thought of somebody being in the car waiting for them.. in the backseat... Forced them to drive home. One of my worst nightmares I always check my backseat. Wouldn't be hard to get around cameras if you are familiar with the victims. ?

 

[MizStery]

I think this could be solved by knowing what the Toronto Coroner documented in the first autopsy that is were there any markings found & noted on HS wrists;then applying the same discipline on BS wrists.Independently were different notations made or were both BS & HS wrist markings consistent and likely bound togeather?Perhaps at different times? Were the markings consistent with i.e. zip ties or abrasions from a watch or bracelet being yanked while their jackets were torn to partially constrain their arms?

Maybe I'm too simplistic but the irrefutable evidence rests on if BS and HS wrists were bound togeather (but for clarities sake;neither of their wrists were bound togeather at the CS) then they were murdered.
Go ahead criticize but be gentle. oke:
:cow: