Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #5

[deugirtni]

The LE said this was a targetted murder not a robbery. I would think robbers would have provided more obvious evidence in the house. Even the PI speculated this was a contract killing. I would hesitate to think that a robbery for jewelery (which can usually be traced) and cash (how much cash do you think the would have lying around considering they had staff and a real estate agent with clients coming and going) would take the time the strangle both people with belts and remove the ties that bound them together. JMO

I'm not sure they can know just yet whether anything was stolen/missing from the S home, until family can have a look (even at photos)? That Toronto couple who were killed in Florida in 2013 had only one ring stolen, which supposedly appears to be the motive. (Unless the theft of the ring was proof of a contract completion, and acts as a reason to point LE in the wrong direction?) jmo

"Flournoy said the killings were likely motivated by robbery as Wise's one-of-a-kind wedding band previously valued at $16,000 was the only item taken from the couple's home."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dna-profile-florida-murder-suspect-1.3535947

 

[liz b.]

The LE said this was a targetted murder not a robbery. I would think robbers would have provided more obvious evidence in the house. Even the PI speculated this was a contract killing. I would hesitate to think that a robbery for jewelery (which can usually be traced) and cash (how much cash do you think the would have lying around considering they had staff and a real estate agent with clients coming and going) would take the time the strangle both people with belts and remove the ties that bound them together. JMO

Cash kept in a safe, not lying around. As to the method of killing , again, these were sociopathic killers, who may well have gained enjoyment from the Shermans' suffering. jmo

 

[Researchnut]

Can we clarify something? I've read almost every news report published on the internet and have not read that BS sent an email out @ 8:30 pm Wednesday night. Can someone find that link and post it ? I tried and cannot.

 

[AllyJane]

Cash kept in a safe, not lying around. As to the method of killing , again, these were sociopathic killers, who may well have gained enjoyment from the Shermans' suffering. jmo

That would be something that the killers would have to know about. They would have to know that they keep a large stash of cash in a safe vs a safe deposit box in a bank. But then why strangle and hang them in the pool area in the basement? The method of murder seems more personal and angry than a simple robbery. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Bodies decompose at different rates, depending on weight, room temperature etc.

Im sure that all of that was part of the autopsies and will be in the autopsy reports, if they could get an estimated TOD.

TPS isn't about to release that information to anyone but the possibly the PIs. It will be part of a trial, if and when they prosecute someone.

As for your first post, they didn't get out of the pool area, nor have a chance to take off their boots/coats. Doubt he had time to send email, given they were being murdered.

As far as we know, the couple were dressed, but I think it is possibly speculation that they had their coats and boots on. If they did, then I am dumbfounded as to how LE could have thought for a minute that it was M/S. jmo

Also, I thought the stage of digestion of stomach contents could be used as a pretty good estimation of TOD.

"Various ingested food materials remain within the stomach for variable periods of time, depending on the nature and size of the meal. It has been determined through extensive research that under ordinary circumstances the stomach empties its contents four to 6 hours after a meal. If the stomach, at autopsy, is found to be filled with food, and digestion of the contents not extensive, it is reasonable to assume that death followed shortly after the meal. If the stomach is entirely empty, death probably took place at least 4 to 6 hours after the last meal. If the small intestine is also empty, the probability is that death took place at least 12 or more hours after the last meal. In certain cases the medical examiner will be able to determine the type of food, which still remains in the stomach, if matched with the last known meal. This can help establish a time period."
http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/LOmar2007.htm

 

[dotr]

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...er-focuses-on-realtors-lock-box#comments-area

[h=1]Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s 'lock box'[/h]

Lock boxes are often used by agents for periods when either the sellers are away or unavailable for showings, or when the agents themselves can’t be there for appointments. Keys to the home are left in the lock box, which is usually affixed to the door handle. Agents can then get the lock box code from the selling agent’s office, and take their clients through.

Police hope the press conference itself will see people with information come forward, adding, no doubt, to the “348 investigative actions” detectives have taken already or are busy following up.

 

[deugirtni]

Just a wild thought but... I wonder if LE took the Mustang for forensic examination because they're thinking that the murderer could have potentially come to the home *with* BS, inside his car - was that the car that he drove that evening? One article said the Mustang was 'owned' by HS, but another said that BS drove the Mustang, and the Mustang is what the 5th Estate used during that 're-enactment' they apparently filmed the other day, wasn't it? If neighbouring video cams have not recorded anyone entering the home, could that be why 5th Estate is airing this enactment - to help spark someone's memory if they may have seen such a vehicle, with a driver similar to BS, who may have had a passenger on board?

"Up rolled a silver Ford Mustang with a driver that looked like Barry Sherman at the wheel."
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-sherman-lookalikes-surreal

 

[JDG]

Cash kept in a safe, not lying around. As to the method of killing , again, these were sociopathic killers, who may well have gained enjoyment from the Shermans' suffering. jmo

It seems to have all the signs of a hired hit.

For the hit man, its just business. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

Nothing whatsoever about a robbery. Who keeps cash around these days?

Debit cards, credit cards are used instead of cash. Thats why the banks are doing

away with tellers, cash money etc.


A targeted double murder is what TPS stated.

 

[liz b.]

That would be something that the killers would have to know about. They would have to know that they keep a large stash of cash in a safe vs a safe deposit box in a bank. But then why strangle and hang them in the pool area in the basement? The method of murder seems more personal and angry than a simple robbery. JMO

No, I think the killers may have believed there were safes in the house, because they connected the house with wealth. Jewelry they would take if it was visible. The method of killing, is sadistic, perhaps based on the killers twisted psyches. To them there could have been an element of enjoyment to it. Especially if they were high. I think they are fairly young. I think this case can and will be solved.

 

[liz b.]

It seems to have all the signs of a hired hit.

For the hit man, its just business. Period.

Curious, what qualifications do you have to make comments such as 'these were sociopathic killers, who may well have gained enjoyment......?'


Nothing whatsoever about a robbery. Who keeps cash around these days?

Debit cards, credit cards are used instead of cash. Thats why the banks are doing

away with tellers, cash money etc.


A targeted double murder is what TPS stated.

Just My Opinion. I am speculating, just as we all are. Have followed many cases here, and one thing stands out : most crimes are very basic, and have basic motives.

 

[deugirtni]

Can we clarify something? I've read almost every news report published on the internet and have not read that BS sent an email out @ 8:30 pm Wednesday night. Can someone find that link and post it ? I tried and cannot.

"On the evening of Dec. 13, a day and a half before his body&#8217;s discovery, Mr. Sherman sent an email to an Apotex executive at 8:30 p.m., according to a person familiar with the matter."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/apotex-faces-uncertainty-after-founders-mysterious-death-1514476204

 

[deugirtni]

It seems to have all the signs of a hired hit.

For the hit man, its just business. Period.

Curious, what qualifications do you have to make comments such as 'these were sociopathic killers, who may well have gained enjoyment......?'


Nothing whatsoever about a robbery. Who keeps cash around these days?

Debit cards, credit cards are used instead of cash. Thats why the banks are doing

away with tellers, cash money etc.


A targeted double murder is what TPS stated.

Could it not have possibly been 'targeted' for the purpose of stealing something of value from the home or their persons? Everyone here is just speculating and theorizing, so robbery is as good as another potential reason to be a target, isn't it?

 

[Errrr]

Some hits are meant to send a message. The dirtier the better.

I am seen as the crazy conspiracy nut of this thread but, the TPS know what happened and tried to push an agenda. Family and friends knew better, hired the PI. PI is probably in danger now too - they obviously are aware this is something bigger than they expected.

JMO.

Mystified at what that message might be. It would be a lot more effective too if there were any clue as to who it is directed at.

 

[human]

Contractors sued by the Shermans are llisted in this news article

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-sued-builders-of-north-york-home.html

21 degrees heating is still in Business
https://www.canpages.ca/page/ON/mississauga/21-degrees-heating-air-conditioning/7746788

Jack Winston died in 2012 http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thestar/obituary.aspx?pid=158268843
His business is still listed on 411 https://411.ca/business/profile/2765504

Thomas Marzotto Architect Still in Business http://marzottoarchitect.com/

Can not find Ewing Construction in Ontario Canada. Mabey someone else can ?

Thanks for that. It seems like the contracting may not be an issue. Jack Wimston was Jewish. I wonder if the other comtractors were as well.

They may kmow the personal,lives of HS and BS and may kmow they were meting with the architect as well as leaving for, Florida..

It seems like if Barry was the only target, the killer would have waited until Honey left for Florida.

 

[human]

I think Bill Gates has raised a family without a secret service like level of security. IMO
I recall reading that there is a guard house to his property where his home is and Im sure the children had security of some sort but Ive also seen photos of them walking along the beach like normal kids. IMO

BS was 'frugal' and obviously felt comfortable in his neighbourhood. IMO
It was naive to not have at least basic/or better security and Im surprised his wife didn't insist on it. Being 'frugal' is one thing, being totally lax another. IMO

BS had his accomplishments but I wonder about him as a person, when one hears he needs help dressing, choosing foods to eat and seemingly blind to the risks he took everyday by not having even a driver to get him to the office and back safely. IMO

The Royal Family have security trailing their children when at school and on outings but its not always obvious. Sherman could have afforded something similar for himself and his wife. IMO

His children/grandchildren have tightened security around themselves now. As well as other family members. IMO

There had been a lot of discontent about BS not taking Apotex public. So, you are correct, plenty of people wanted to share the wealth.

Begs the question, when is enough money, enough? How much do you need for a very comfortable life for you and your family?

The cousins were not satisfied with the millions they got from him. They got something like $20,000 a month as an allowance.

 

[Errrr]

Why did it take them so long to announce this?

Maybe they only just negotiated the price?
Police tape comes down now and private team takes over.

 

[kiwi50]

The more I read about DeSai and his girlfriend, the worse it sounds, wonder how long they were together before she went to work for Teva, did she go there to spy?
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/sex-drugs-and-sharing-trade-secrets-20170712.html

 

[Summerfun]

This case gets more confusing by the day. Yes, we now know it was a homicide.
But it was never treated like one on the day their bodies were discovered.

The crime scene was not secured, some woman an employee from Apotex with flowers ducks under the police tape and walks into the side door for at least two minutes undetected.
Leaving her snowy boot prints in the house.

None of the police that night wore foot coverings.

After googling images I noticed something very strange, sorry I cannot link those images, but when the coroner took out the grey draped body they had foot coverings on. When they took the red draped body they had none on.

Can someone enlighten me why they had them on for one but not the other.

TYIA

 

[Veeduck]

IMO, whoever is responsible for these reprehensible torture murders was someone who worked with Barry; someone in the highest echelon of Apotex management. I think it has something to do with the Teva lawsuit, and the person that had the most to lose in that regard is either Jeremy Desai, or someone who had been acting directly on his orders, and was therefor liable in the lawsuit. JMO

I'd venture to say that Barry Sherman had retained his Superuser (SU) status on the Apotex intranet, which would've given him permission for any action whatsoever on their computer system. IMO, only Barry had the SU password to access (and change or delete) info that was in some way crucial for mounting a defense in the Teva lawsuit.

IMO, the murderer - whether personally or by proxy - needed to extract that SU password, and perhaps also arranged to have the 8:30p email sent from Barry's computer, in order to provide cover for their crime. This was an inside job; not some nameless Big Pharma. MOO :moo:

Mark my words: this case will be cracked by cyberforensic experts. JMO

 

[PaulR]

I'd venture to say that Barry Sherman had retained his Superuser (SU) status on the Apotex intranet, which would've given him permission for any action whatsoever on their computer system. IMO, only Barry had the SU password to access (and change or delete) info that was in some way crucial for mounting a defense in the Teva lawsuit.

IMO, the murderer - whether personally or by proxy - needed to extract that SU password, and perhaps also arranged to have the 8:30p email sent from Barry's computer, in order to provide cover for their crime. This was an inside job; not some nameless Big Pharma. MOO :moo:

No. IT systems don't really work like this, there is no single superuser account that can do everything at any decent size corporation and the CEO who is not a techie is not getting the car keys for IT management.