Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[Snoop Sister]

That's not even close to being right, the Shermans donated tens of millions to charity.

Sure the Shermans donated millions of dollars. But, take a look at what places the money was donated to. University programs related to pharmaceutical study or engineering and many Jewish organizations or Jewish related. Their money and their business, but there seemed to be reasoning for all donations politically and otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[human]

Sure the Shermans donated millions of dollars. But, take a look at what places the money was donated to. University programs related to pharmaceutical study or engineering and many Jewish organizations or Jewish related. Their money and their business, but there seemed to be reasoning for all donations politically and otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong.

These people are not worthy ?

 

[Snoop Sister]

These people are not worthy ?

No, I am certainly not saying that at all. Just trying to get some discussion going as we seem to be going over the same scenarios once again, save for some new info from FE.

 

[PaulR]

No, I am certainly not saying that at all. Just trying to get some discussion going as we seem to be going over the same scenarios once again, save for some new info from FE.

I don't see an issue with him donating to STEM programs like pharmaceuticals and engineering - those are both very important, and of course both fields were near and dear to his heart since he was an engineering student who later went into the pharmaceutical industry.

And of course his wife was the child of survivors of the Holocaust, so Jewish causes would be important to her.

 

[Tortoise]

IMO this crime didn't end up looking how it was supposed to.

My suggestion is that it was meant to look like double suicide, and that's why there were two belts.
It went wrong because Honey struggled and was injured.

I think the idea was to get the wrist restraints on quickly so that the victims could not use their arms to resist being placed in the nooses and there would be no prior strangulation marks. I think Honey managed to resist having her wrists bound and that is probably where she was held down and her face became injured. Maybe her legs were bound too, (with a belt?) over her clothes so that she couldn't get up. All speculation, nothing from sources to back this up but it could explain the time allowed for blood to pool on the deck and her jacket still being on.

Did the person bring belts? I don't think so, because it was meant to look like double suicide so they would want to use Barry's.

I'm now thinking two brothers. Just because one has been vocal doesn't mean there isn't a less vocal one involved. Nothing more than instinct tells me the killer/s would have kept Honey alive for a final showdown involving the couple.

Now that the police would know from Honey's injuries that she was murdered the killer had time to think of why Barry would have murdered Honey, and concoct a story.

Speculation.

 

[Veeduck]

KW had (at least) a bottle of water (visible) during the polygraph IIRC they said the interview took 3 hours...just an observation

Well, I've reached page 50, only to find that tarabull beat me to the water bottle. And by a mere 12 pages! Guess I shouldn't comment when I'm so far behind everyone else. :sigh:

 

[musicaljoke]

Sure. But the leaks said that she had her coat on (as did he). Not sure if it is true but pretty sure it wasn't disputed. So that would likely make the timing when HS came home because I am not sure why they would have her put her coat on again to kill her.

They may have been heading out for dinner.

 

[musicaljoke]

Well, I've reached page 50, only to find that tarabull beat me to the water bottle. And by a mere 12 pages! Guess I shouldn't comment when I'm so far behind everyone else. :sigh:

Awh piffle! I wouldn't fret about that. We'd love to hear fom you, even if it's a reminder of what was written earlier.

 

[musicaljoke]

I read that too and I wondered if they (the belts) belonged to Barry.

Perhaps the belts were being worn by the victims, which would suggest hat the crime was somewhat less premeditated.

 

[nuff]

Just to be clear for the non-Canadian readers, we don't have grand juries in Canada. There are prelim trials where there is a media blackout until the actual criminal trial.
r.

Or, as happened with Dellen Millard, the Crown can choose to go straight to trial if they believe they have sufficient evidence to convict.

 

[nuff]

Sure the Shermans donated millions of dollars. But, take a look at what places the money was donated to. University programs related to pharmaceutical study or engineering and many Jewish organizations or Jewish related. Their money and their business, but there seemed to be reasoning for all donations politically and otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong.

Now that this thread has finally moved away from the discussion of whether or not BS / HS were unfair to KW, could we please not go back to the parallel arguments about whether or not they were truly generous? It's all felt to me to be uncomfortably close to blaming the victims.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Perhaps the belts were being worn by the victims, which would suggest hat the crime was somewhat less premeditated.

Winter coat belts?

Or purse strap? In quite a few photos HS is wearing a Chanel wallet on chain that has a long thin metal chain interwoven with leather:




https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

 

[Grey-St]

First thing I notice is the coke nail.

So I never thought it was the cousin before, but wow I am certainly open to thinking it might be him now. Guy is a total nut case in my opinion. Kind of get the vibe he thinks he outsmarted everyone and now just going way too over the top.

One thing that bothers me a lot about this situation, is that the cousins assume they would have been as successful as Barry had they gotten the company. The success of Apotex was because of Barry. There is no guarantee they would have been able to make the same of themselves.

I don't really think they've ever made that proclamation to be honest. I think they wondered what really happened with their father's company, and felt wronged when they found out. I agree, Apotex was successful because of BS.

Also, people don't usually use their thumb as a coke nail.

 

[MizStery]

Winter coat belts?

Or purse strap? In quite a few photos HS is wearing a Chanel wallet on chain that has a long thin metal chain interwoven with leather:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...-honey-sherman-apotex-deaths/article37424109/

When I read your post I looked at the hook that has my various keys/bags to grab on my way out of the house. After reading your post I noticed I have two lanyards for a mail box key & locking gate), two crossbody bags(actually one is a crossbody iPhone strap that attaches to hardware at the top of the phone case)

Perhaps as as you say the press were calling what could have been straps belts by mistake.

Good thinking. :thinking:

:cow:

 

[Grey-St]

How did Fifth Estate know to make their program in advance of the police announcement? Would they have aired it if the police hadn't made their announcement?

I think they likely had different cuts, different interviews, and different narratives that they would have used if the case was still classified as a suspicious death by the time it was scheduled to air. Remember that's all this case was ever classified as, so The Fifth Estate would still have had the leeway to investigate the possibility of double-homicide.

 

[Grey-St]

But what I meant was why make a program if the police might announce it is murder suicide. Why would they reenact Barry and Honey driving home to murder suicide? They made the program before the announcement of double murder.

Perhaps they were working with Greenspan's help. But even then I don't know if they'd have aired a program that undermined what LE might have announced.

They still gave airtime to the idea of murder-suicide. They let KW babble on about how he was confident that it was such, and how "BS wanted to kill HS", as ridiculous as that was.

 

[Grey-St]

Whoever committed the crime knew where the Sherman's kept their personal belongings inside their massive house imo.

Did the two men's belts used to tie the bodies to the railings belong to Barry?

It's seems odd to me that someone who didn't live there would bring two belts with them or would want to spend time searching for them
after they entered the house. Imo, the killer knew where these belts were kept inside the house.

If someone other than Barry committed this crime, wouldn’t their fingerprints be on the belts? Apparently, wearing gloves in almost all instances would prevent a fingerprint being deposited on the surface, but research has proved that thinner gloves, mostly latex gloves, would still leave a fingerprint, through the glove, on most surfaces. Prints left in that way can still be developed and used for identification.

IF the killer put on Honey’s coat and boots, as someone posted today, and Barry's too, doesn't that mean they knew where they hung their coats and kept their boots? The closet where they kept their coats likely has a door on it so the coats wouldn't be visible and readily available.

How would someone who hasn't been in their house before know where the door and steps to the pool was and why bother moving Honey there in order to hang their bodies on the railings?

<snipped>

At the time, multiple media reports and a police source said investigators' initial theory was that Mr. Sherman might have killed his wife and then himself, but the family strongly disputed this.

At Friday’s press conference, police said Barry and Honey Sherman’s last contact with friends, family or business associates was late in the day Wednesday.

Also the key to their house was still in the drop box and the security cameras were not working

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...arry-and-honey-sherman-death-case-friday.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...arry-and-honey-sherman-death-case-friday.html

I don't find it strange at all that the perpetrator(s) may have brought their own belts, it was a targeted double-homicide, and evidently pretty thought out. Measures were taken to not leave behind DNA or fingerprints, one would assume. I don't think their coats or boots were put back on the Shermans, I think they were wearing these items (if that can be confirmed) when they were attacked. JMO.

 

[JDG]

When I read your post I looked at the hook that has my various keys/bags to grab on my way out of the house. After reading your post I noticed I have two lanyards for a mail box key & locking gate), two crossbody bags(actually one is a crossbody iPhone strap that attaches to hardware at the top of the phone case)

Perhaps as as you say the press were calling what could have been straps belts by mistake.

Good thinking. :thinking:

:cow:

TPS referred to them as hanging by mens belts. I presume TPS means belts in the normal sense, to hold up ones trousers.

 

[Grey-St]

He received an allowance of $20,000 a month, loans for businesses, homes, cottages. That is not wealthy?$20,000 a month for doing nothing? If it was so rough, he could have subsidized it with a job

I think the point was that he was still "on the outside". He was othered, given these things by BS. Not really part of the family in any significant way. No doubt that these gifts were generous, but I think that was more the point of the original post.

 

[Grey-St]

Agreed unless LE already has a solid idea who did this and was focusing on building the case around that. Then KW blabs his face off (probably because LE wouldn't give him the attention he craves) and the attention goes off the rails. But if LE is zeroing on a suspect, then this KW spectacle can work in their favour to have the real suspects think LE is not looking at them. This whole thing has been so bizarre as high profile cases go.

I can only hope that LE actually have a lead that isn't obvious to us. They really do keep their investigations tight lipped for a reason. Even in the Tess Richey case where an arrest was just made, apparently TPS had identified the suspect very early on, and just had to gather the necessary evidence to lay a charge. Lets hope they are onto something in the Sherman's case as well. They have a lot more to explore, but I'm sure they are getting there.