Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[human]

If not dinner, it could have been another outing. It's not unusual for business people to go out for dinner at 9:00, especially if that's when they get home from work, and the household help is away, and they had a meeting over the dinner hour. I don't see where they might have had dinner in sooner than that.

Or they might have been heading out for another purpose, or not. The main point is that we can't be sure that HS was murdered earlier based only on the fact that she was wearing a coat. BS might have called her ten minutes earlier to say he was nearly home, and asked her to grab her coat.

That is an interesting point. If they were hog tied together or even if their wrists were bound, it is hard to imagine why the killers would do it if Honey was dead or near dead. Three hours of who knows what happening to Honey does not seem like she would be in good shape.

I can see that perhaps someone hid in Barry’s car.

 

[kiwi50]

Girlfriend living with him? I thought he lived alone. Breakup + losing case = trigger?

JMO

I think he said in an interview that he probably called his girlfriend long distance, presumably Wednesday night.

 

[human]

I think he said in an interview that he probably called his girlfriend long distance, presumably Wednesday night.

So where is the girlfriend?

 

[JayFriend]

Once charges are placed a publication ban is requested and always granted. This will IMO be allowed as trial by tweet.

If there is a jury trial, there is a publication ban on anything that takes place in the courtroom that the jury does not hear, No "court TV" in Canada. Some high profile cases reporters are allowed to text or tweet what the jury hears. But in this case, if there eventually are charges, a trial is a long way off.

 

[musicaljoke]

Were the cousins really getting $20,000 per month up until they started legal action in 2007? If so, my goodness! They would have been better to apologise than sue. That would have been ... 2.5 million by now! And who knows, they may have been included in the will! Likely they were in the will until nasties started. Instead they have a $300,000. legal bill. It's too late to apologise now.

MORAL OF STORY: Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

 

[Tortoise]

Its more people on here who have said it....but also, KW is very bitter about it.

Yeah, I'm aware a coke nail isn't usually a thumb, but there's nothing usual about KW or this case.

I was able to watch the Fifth Estate episode last night, and wow, just wow. First thing I noticed when they asked KW if he killed Barry and Honey, he looked down and to the right - a tell tale sign someone is lying. Plus rapid blinking. He is hiding something

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...1/#count-how-long-someone-closes-their-eyes-3

I think Fifth Estate has employed a little bit of deception with their editing.

If you watch the first clip, it shows him being asked "Did you kill Honey and Barry Sherman?" he looks to his right and then starts to shake his head. It's been edited to make it seem that he has to pause and think about his answer. https://youtu.be/ov7SCivAo5A?t=56s

The second clip shows it with his reply and he's looking right while being asked the question and then replies immediately. https://youtu.be/ov7SCivAo5A?t=30m12s

 

[musicaljoke]

True but I think it was mentioned by some report that no one saw them since leaving Apotex but who knows if that is correct.

Awh, I see! Are you thinking that they may have been murdered later in the evening, after returning home from dinner? That would put someone's alibi into question, wouldn't it?

I can't see it as a drive thru, pay cash at Tim Hortons kind of dinner, but dollars to donuts if they had a sweet little dinner date, the police know about it by now. If I had a gabillion dollars, I'd have a regular Wednesday night dinner date too.

I hope they did!

 

[Jealoushe]

Either way, he is looking right, which is a tell tale sign of a lie. It is interesting nonetheless.

I think watching that a few times might be worthwhile. The way he talks so casually about the way they died, the whole thing, his demeanor. He is either guilty or just a heartless .

 

[human]

Awh, I see! Are you thinking that they may have been murdered later in the evening, after returning home from dinner? That would put someone's alibi into question, wouldn't it?

I can't see it as a drive thru, pay cash at Tim Hortons kind of dinner, but dollars to donuts if they had a sweet little dinner date, the police know about it by now. If I had a gabillion dollars, I'd have a regular Wednesday night dinner date too.

I hope they did!

It has never been said who saw them dressed in the same clothes. We assume it is the architect but we do not know.

Even if they were killed when Barry came home, someone like KW could start out at a meeting and then leave before it is over. Slip out to the bathroom or at a social time if there is one at the end.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Either way, he is looking right, which is a tell tale sign of a lie. It is interesting nonetheless.

I think watching that a few times might be worthwhile. The way he talks so casually about the way they died, the whole thing, his demeanor. He is either guilty or just a heartless .

I rewatched it this morning and had a thought. I don’t know evidentiary rules in Canada but while the polygraph itself is not admissible, here in the US the video footage and his statements therein would be admissible so SPECULATING what if FE is cooperating with the investigation serruptiously?

TPS knows KW would be on guard and less forthcoming with the police than with the media, and it would be less likely he would submit to a polygraph which he did for FE which then made him change his story. Interviewing him right after FE (if they were privileged) would put some pressure and possibly expose more holes in the story.

KW would also likely be less guarded with DNA (the bottle and the very obvious trick to get him to drink with the interviewer taking a drink himself). It is all speculation but it might clear up some oddities regarding the timeline of filming and KWs police interview.

In any case I will be very surprised if KW isn’t involved. JMO

 

[kiwi50]

Was just looking at a picture of KW with his lawyer, he certainly looks a big guy next to him.
I’m sure he’d be strong working on building sites too.
Any ideas on his height/weight?

 

[AllyJane]

So where is the girlfriend?

I thought his girlfriend was in Vancouver.

 

[AllyJane]

If not dinner, it could have been another outing. It's not unusual for business people to go out for dinner at 9:00, especially if that's when they get home from work, and the household help is away, and they had a meeting over the dinner hour. I don't see where they might have had dinner in sooner than that.

Or they might have been heading out for another purpose, or not. The main point is that we can't be sure that HS was murdered earlier based only on the fact that she was wearing a coat. BS might have called her ten minutes earlier to say he was nearly home, and asked her to grab her coat.

I think the Fifth Estate in their re-enactment said it was believed that they never left the house after coming home separately.

 

[AllyJane]

Awh, I see! Are you thinking that they may have been murdered later in the evening, after returning home from dinner? That would put someone's alibi into question, wouldn't it?

I can't see it as a drive thru, pay cash at Tim Hortons kind of dinner, but dollars to donuts if they had a sweet little dinner date, the police know about it by now. If I had a gabillion dollars, I'd have a regular Wednesday night dinner date too.

I hope they did!

I think they just came home separately. Maybe they had some food ordered in at the architect's meeting at Apotex. I am thinking that if they did go out to dinner at 9pm, then it would have been to a restaurant nearby and they would have been recognized. As I recall, the Fifth Estate said that it was believed that once arriving home separately that they never left the home again.

 

[deugirtni]

It has never been said who saw them dressed in the same clothes. We assume it is the architect but we do not know.

Even if they were killed when Barry came home, someone like KW could start out at a meeting and then leave before it is over. Slip out to the bathroom or at a social time if there is one at the end.

Since we now know that the meeting with the architect was held at the Apo office, there were likely many who saw HS and may have been able to recall what she had been wearing (office staff).

Also, now that we know the times that each came home after the meeting, it could be that they were going to have a quick dinner/bite to eat/snack when they got home (unless they had an early dinner during the meeting).. and if the two had come home with empty stomachs, expecting to eat, and then been ambushed, it could explain why there is a larger window as to TOD. If HS had *just* eaten before being killed, one might assume it would be easier to get a better timeline. jmo.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Since we now know that the meeting with the architect was held at the Apo office, there were likely many who saw HS and may have been able to recall what she had been wearing (office staff).

Also, now that we know the times that each came home after the meeting, it could be that they were going to have a quick dinner/bite to eat/snack when they got home (unless they had an early dinner during the meeting).. and if the two had come home with empty stomachs, expecting to eat, and then been ambushed, it could explain why there is a larger window as to TOD. If HS had *just* eaten before being killed, one might assume it would be easier to get a better timeline. jmo.

I'd imagine Apotex had WORKING cameras @ the time they left.
MOO

I have a strange feeling,
THINKING....[emoji848]
they met with the architect, did he know or work with the cousin KW at all or had he ever???


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[ldlager]

TPS referred to them as hanging by mens belts. I presume TPS means belts in the normal sense, to hold up ones trousers.

It’s the notion of belts that still feels off for me. Wouldn’t some rope be much easier, and probably untraceable if the killers took any care? Belts seem a strange choice imo. Leads me to wonder if they were not there to murder initially, otherwise why not just bring rope? Or a gun? Could there be any kind of significance to belts?

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

re looking left or right indicates deception debunked: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scie...right-doesnt-indicate-if-youre-lying-1922058/

 

[tarabull]

too many toronto threads...far too many windows.

:sorry:

:blushing:

 

[Hazel]

KW's blabbing is like a release for him. He's letting it all out and then some.I do not believe the part of BS wanting Honey whacked is, but I do not believe for one second KW did this. He just wants to be heard.

I thought the same, that going public was therapeutic for him, part of the grieving process. Seems to me that BW has been suffering for many years -- he couldn't believe that BS would lie to him!! He admired him, and as he said in the FE episode, he even saw BS as a father figure. The betrayal hurt him deeply, and will take many, many years for him to heal (if ever).

I can imagine him talking about what BS did to him and his brothers over and over with some people, and now he saw the opportunity to tell his story to the whole world.
That must have taken a lot of weight off him

He is not hurting for the full grown man he is now. He is hurting for the little boy he once was, for all 4 little boys, that he couldn't protect then.
:cow:
Disclaimer: All just my humble opinion, I don't know any of these people, I'm just an observant websleuth.