Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[Peace777]

The key in the lock box should have DNA/fingerprints on it and if it didn't was it wiped down for some reason? Maybe the killer/s used it to gain entry? Just wondering out loud.

 

[Peace777]

Don’t know where the reference is. Many people have brought it up on here many times,

As far as a gift, he gave them money of $20,000 a month but it sounds like,KW’s three homes that were taken back had a payment plan. KW got almost 8 mil he had to forfeit.

Is that bad? Having homes and money for businesses? I think we all know handing out money with no strings is not a wise decision. After all, Barry knew KW had drug issues. Working for something is always a better idea.

Didn't BS also do the same to JD and the house he was given? FD was also being sued then became closer friends with BS and got more loans and $ for his business ventures. My point is KW (BS own relative) wasn't the only 1 that was being helped out by BS's money/generosity (if you want to call it that). JMO

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

I am curoius. Do people think parents should give their kids everything with no stipulation? We helped our kids but they had to particpate as well. For imstance, we made the downpayment on cars, but they had to make payments and keep up their grades.

I do have to say when my son moved out, we found contracts we had made with him. My husband and I laughed and laughed. We hardly upheld any of the conditions for when my son did not hold up his end of the contract.

But we weren’t handing out millions to a drug user. Seriously,Dana was in jail for the possiblity of being a murderer. What would other people do?

Simply hand out millions and call it a day?

My family always had promissory notes as a safeguard against someone suing and taking out of the family. I had to sign a mortgage for educational expenses ( that was forgiven when I graduated). My grandfather loaned me money for my first business for one year at a 10% interest rate which I paid back. I had to do an entire business plan and sell him on it. Yes there was a promissory note attached.

When my mom died a couple of years ago and sorted her files (every check and bank statement and more going back to 1965 when she was a teen) I found the files with the promissory notes. I laughed. Some families, especially successful business families, are like that.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Was just looking at a picture of KW with his lawyer, he certainly looks a big guy next to him.
I’m sure he’d be strong working on building sites too.
Any ideas on his height/weight?

I think FE showed a pic of KW and BS. If we can find BS weight and height we might be able to make an educated guess. IMO

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I'm still catching up, apologies if this has already been answered.
The following information comes from the Private Investigators, not the official TPS:




https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

I just can't wrap my head around how that is even possible with a man's leather belt, because it sounds like it was attached at 2 places. (No pun intended!)
Maybe not, I can see how a neck could be belted TO a handrail near the pool with the end buckled but...
I probably don't WANT to know how it's possible the other way!
MOO
MOO

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[gregjrichards]

The key in the lock box should have DNA/fingerprints on it and if it didn't was it wiped down for some reason? Maybe the killer/s used it to gain entry? Just wondering out loud.

I think it’s more likely the killer(s) wore gloves.

 

[AllyJane]

My family always had promissory notes as a safeguard against someone suing and taking out of the family. I had to sign a mortgage for educational expenses ( that was forgiven when I graduated). My grandfather loaned me money for my first business for one year at a 10% interest rate which I paid back. I had to do an entire business plan and sell him on it. Yes there was a promissory note attached.

When my mom died a couple of years ago and sorted her files (every check and bank statement and more going back to 1965 when she was a teen) I found the files with the promissory notes. I laughed. Some families, especially successful business families, are like that.

Thats a really good point. I have friends who have had their parents help them with buying a home and the kids signed a mortgage or promissary note to the parents to protect the asset. This way if the partner of the "child"/homeowner divorces then they cannot take the half of the entire house as they will also owe half the debt to the parent. Lots of people of wealth do this to protect their kids (and their assets)

 

[brightii]

Didn't BS also do the same to JD and the house he was given? FD was also being sued then became closer friends with BS and got more loans and $ for his business ventures. My point is KW (BS own relative) wasn't the only 1 that was being helped out by BS's money/generosity (if you want to call it that). JMO

bbm

Yes, BS did make loans to others along with KW and his brothers and IMO I call that exceedingly generous. To my knowledge, BS was suing FD not the other way around but I may be wrong about that. In any case, I think BS was able to compartmentalize business as just business whether he was dealing with family, friends or competitors, IMO. The ability to be detached to a great degree is essential in business, IMO. Business is business, it's not personal.

Likely BS would have sued anyone who decided to spit in the face of his generosity, and IMO he was justified. Had anyone, family member, friend or stranger, been a financial benefactor to me in my life I cannot imagine repaying them with baseless accusations of murdering my parent (as KW did to BS about LW) and nor would I decide to sue such a benefactor because I decided that I deserved more.

BS worked hard for his success. KW could have chosen to follow BS's good example, IMO. He could have worked hard, shared what he made with others, given others a hand up (loans), and had he done so, IMO, KW may be today a much more satisfied and content person. KW had choices as we all do. KW had more opportunities than most of us ever will and by accepting BS's hand up on numerous occasions he could have chosen to make himself a good life. Instead he is a man full of rage, rancor and regret, IMO, when just a little humility and gratitude could have made such a big difference in his life.

ALL MOO.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Thats a really good point. I have friends who have had their parents help them with buying a home and the kids signed a mortgage or promissary note to the parents to protect the asset. This way if the partner of the "child"/homeowner divorces then they cannot take the half of the entire house as they will also owe half the debt to the parent. Lots of people of wealth do this to protect their kids (and their assets)

That and if you are "gifted" more than 10K ( in the US) you have to pay taxes on the $.- unless it's changed in the past 10 years.
MOO

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[ldlager]

I don’t think this has been raised before, but it is entirely possible that the killer or killers are already dead. If a powerful party, entity, or individual organized and contracted out these killings, they may well have ensured that the killers were themselves silenced forever. If so, no one will likely ever be arrested for this crime. Moo

 

[casesensitive]

It’s the notion of belts that still feels off for me. Wouldn’t some rope be much easier, and probably untraceable if the killers took any care? Belts seem a strange choice imo. Leads me to wonder if they were not there to murder initially, otherwise why not just bring rope? Or a gun? Could there be any kind of significance to belts?

If these deaths were 'staged' as a murder/suicide, using two belts (ostensibly, or factually belonging to BS) it would fit the common method of suicide by men by hanging. They use what is available and belts are used. Hanging from a low structure is more common also, as in being attached to the pool railing. If BS killed his wife and decided to commit suicide (planned or not) the death scene is plausible.

So did the killer "google" common suicide methods used by men to come up with a plausible scene of murder/suicide to fool LE? I feel that the only killer who would go that route is someone who knew the couple versus big pharma or international enemies. The killer knew that the murder/suicide scenario might be believable during investigation, for reasons that we are unaware of. JMO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/

Sorry to use wikipedia, but take it for what it is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_hanging

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

That and if you are "gifted" more than 10K ( in the US) you have to pay taxes on the $.- unless it's changed in the past 10 years.
MOO

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I believe it’s 14k now.

 

[JDG]

If these deaths were 'staged' as a murder/suicide, using two belts (ostensibly, or factually belonging to BS) it would fit the common method of suicide by men by hanging. They use what is available and belts are used. Hanging from a low structure is more common also, as in being attached to the pool railing. If BS killed his wife and decided to commit suicide (planned or not) the death scene is plausible.

So did the killer "google" common suicide methods used by men to come up with a plausible scene of murder/suicide to fool LE? I feel that the only killer who would go that route is someone who knew the couple versus big pharma or international enemies. The killer knew that the murder/suicide scenario might be believable during investigation, for reasons that we are unaware of. JMO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/

Sorry to use wikipedia, but take it for what it is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_hanging

Or the belts are part of the 'message' being sent to those still alive. Something significant. IMO

We don't know enough about the case to figure it out. If it ever goes to court, it will all fall into place. IMO

 

[clearskies1]

It’s the notion of belts that still feels off for me. Wouldn’t some rope be much easier, and probably untraceable if the killers took any care? Belts seem a strange choice imo. Leads me to wonder if they were not there to murder initially, otherwise why not just bring rope? Or a gun? Could there be any kind of significance to belts?

I agree. I said earlier that I think it's possible that the killer did not come to the house for the purpose of killing. The manner of death (strangulation) does not fit with a pre-planned double murder. The killer would have probably brought a gun if that was the intention. I think the hanging was to make it look like a double suicide and that the killer may have strangled them when he was caught doing something in the house. JMO.

 

[JDG]

Has TPS named KW as a Person Of Interest yet? I thought we can't be discussing anyone in particular until they were named a POI in the case?

With the ending of the lawsuits happening so close to the murders, Im sure TPS had him in their sights from the very beginning. BS had a litany of enemies, it takes so much longer to get through the interviews.

Add to that, his complex and varied business dealings, the auditing and double checking of years of potential enemies and there is a ton of work for TPS.

A cousin with revenge on his mind, a possible POI can wait until they've finished with the rest.

Hes not going anywhere, he feels that he is/and may well be, innocent. Anger, vitriol etc, etc, doesn't make him the killer. He certainly hates them, no doubt about that, but so do many others.

Even BS wondered why he hadn't been knocked off for his business dealings.

 

[Grey-St]

If you read the TPS update, the Shermans were strangled, THEN held upright by belts.

The belts didn't strangle them, reading between the lines, they were simply to hold them upright, tied to the railings.

Only the killer and the TPS know how they were strangled.

Well a ligature strangled them, as per the COD.

 

[JDG]

I agree. I said earlier that I think it's possible that the killer did not come to the house for the purpose of killing. The manner of death (strangulation) does not fit with a pre-planned double murder. The killer would have probably brought a gun if that was the intention. I think the hanging was to make it look like a double suicide and that the killer may have strangled them when he was caught doing something in the house. JMO.

The manner of death was very effective. I believe they came to kill both HS and BS and to leave zero traces of DNA. It was planned, they knew where the Shermans would be and how/where to attack them in the house. IMO

If one attacks from behind, using a ligature you can kill rather quickly and I think there were at least 2 men there to do it. Possibly a third, as a look out or back up in case of a physical altercation. IMO

I am puzzled by the story of Honey sitting in a puddle of her own blood from scratches on her nose and mouth.

Nothing on her upper body clothing but enough blood to make a puddle? Just doesn't seem right to me. IMO

IMO, the only way that could happen would be if she had been dead before they sat her upright to hang her.

Once the heart stops beating, the excessive blood from a mouth wound would not be much but it should still drip onto the clothing.

The police may be giving out 'misinformation' on purpose. I have even wondered if FE was a 'set up' for KW, give him an arena to speak where he feels in control and let him chat away. The re-enactment timing was odd and to air it just before he was called in for an interview just adds to my sense that it was all done for a purpose.

 

[JDG]

Well a ligature strangled them, as per the COD.

Yes, I agree. Some seem to still think it was the belts but it was not the belts, they were to hold them in place.

 

[musicaljoke]

With the ending of the lawsuits happening so close to the murders, Im sure TPS had him in their sights from the very beginning. BS had a litany of enemies, it takes so much longer to get through the interviews.

Add to that, his complex and varied business dealings, the auditing and double checking of years of potential enemies and there is a ton of work for TPS.

A cousin with revenge on his mind, a possible POI can wait until they've finished with the rest.

Hes not going anywhere, he feels that he is/and may well be, innocent. Anger, vitriol etc, etc, doesn't make him the killer. He certainly hates them, no doubt about that, but so do many others.

Even BS wondered why he hadn't been knocked off for his business dealings.

I wonder who the other enemies might be. I don't think that lawsuits with other drug companies would generate such violent, personal hatred. It seems to me that legal challenges are just all in a day's work, and that the lawyers wrangle out the details for the companies, leaving the CEOs at an arms length.

 

[clearskies1]

I'm sure this has been discussed but I don't have time to go back and read through all the threads -- can someone summarize what is known about access to the Sherman's home (lock box? etc) during the house sale? TIA.