Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[Twinkle]

Also someone who knew their window of opportunity to kill them both was closing in since HS was booked to go to Florida the following Monday.

Exactly. Someone who also knew the coming and going of staff. They would have known the regular movements of the housekeeper, outdoor snow removal people, etc. I still find it hard to believe no one went looking for Honey and Barry and it took a real estate agent to find them.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

I agree. I said earlier that I think it's possible that the killer did not come to the house for the purpose of killing. The manner of death (strangulation) does not fit with a pre-planned double murder. The killer would have probably brought a gun if that was the intention. I think the hanging was to make it look like a double suicide and that the killer may have strangled them when he was caught doing something in the house. JMO.

Except in Judaism hanging is a curse. Even if it was staged, it could be a message. Also strangulation is personal and up close which would fit with personal revenge. It could fit just fine. Guns are loud. Not sure how close neighbors are.

 

[Grey-St]

If these deaths were 'staged' as a murder/suicide, using two belts (ostensibly, or factually belonging to BS) it would fit the common method of suicide by men by hanging. They use what is available and belts are used. Hanging from a low structure is more common also, as in being attached to the pool railing. If BS killed his wife and decided to commit suicide (planned or not) the death scene is plausible.

So did the killer "google" common suicide methods used by men to come up with a plausible scene of murder/suicide to fool LE? I feel that the only killer who would go that route is someone who knew the couple versus big pharma or international enemies. The killer knew that the murder/suicide scenario might be believable during investigation, for reasons that we are unaware of. JMO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/

Sorry to use wikipedia, but take it for what it is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_hanging

With all the discussion about "why the belts?!" I can honestly say I feel like this is the biggest reason why. I think the ligature neck compression COD opposed to gunshot wounds or anything else, is specifically because it was planned to look like a murder-suicide.

Who planned it? I don't know yet. I think it could still be business related or personal related or both, given this scenario.

 

[human]

I agree. I said earlier that I think it's possible that the killer did not come to the house for the purpose of killing. The manner of death (strangulation) does not fit with a pre-planned double murder. The killer would have probably brought a gun if that was the intention. I think the hanging was to make it look like a double suicide and that the killer may have strangled them when he was caught doing something in the house. JMO.

Why would the killer wait three hours until Barry got home?

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

The manner of death was very effective. I believe they came to kill both HS and BS and to leave zero traces of DNA. It was planned, they knew where the Shermans would be and how/where to attack them in the house. IMO

If one attacks from behind, using a ligature you can kill rather quickly and I think there were at least 2 men there to do it. Possibly a third, as a look out or back up in case of a physical altercation. IMO

I am puzzled by the story of Honey sitting in a puddle of her own blood from scratches on her nose and mouth.

Nothing on her upper body clothing but enough blood to make a puddle? Just doesn't seem right to me. IMO

IMO, the only way that could happen would be if she had been dead before they sat her upright to hang her.

Once the heart stops beating, the excessive blood from a mouth wound would not be much but it should still drip onto the clothing.

The police may be giving out 'misinformation' on purpose. I have even wondered if FE was a 'set up' for KW, give him an arena to speak where he feels in control and let him chat away. The re-enactment timing was odd and to air it just before he was called in for an interview just adds to my sense that it was all done for a purpose.

The blood is possibly from HS clawing at her neck and face with long nails while being strangled.[emoji852]
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[AllyJane]

Exactly. Someone who also knew the coming and going of staff. They would have known the regular movements of the housekeeper, outdoor snow removal people, etc. I still find it hard to believe no one went looking for Honey and Barry and it took a real estate agent to find them.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Your last part is something that has bothered me as well and I am surprised more people haven't focused in on. The staff was there on Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if there were staff on Thursday as well even if it is one person. However even if they were there only Friday, they had access to the house. It is still odd that they didn't discover the bodies because HS and BS cars were still at the house and there had to be some anomalies in the house. Plus if BS and HS were killed Wednesday night, you would think there would be some kind of odour. However, I am still puzzled why it took the realtor to find them (with the maid). Was the maid at the house on Thursday? If so, why did she not find the bodies? I heard that the staff were told not to go to the basement but who says that is true? I mean there is more than a pool down there I believe.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

The police may be giving out 'misinformation' on purpose. I have even wondered if FE was a 'set up' for KW, give him an arena to speak where he feels in control and let him chat away. The re-enactment timing was odd and to air it just before he was called in for an interview just adds to my sense that it was all done for a purpose.

That is my thought too.

 

[AllyJane]

The blood is possibly from HS clawing at her neck and face with long nails while being strangled.[emoji852]
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

She has scratches on her nose and lips area. That is supposedly where the blood was coming from unless it was her nose when her face was slammed down on the tile. Plus if she clawing then she would have been upright and there would have been more blood on her shirt.

 

[human]

How was any of them going to be able to payback what BS loaned them? Even if their businesses became more successful, 8 million dollars is a lot of money.

All so very strange to me and forever will be. JMO.

They could use some of the $20,000 a month allowance

 

[Grey-St]

Yes, I agree. Some seem to still think it was the belts but it was not the belts, they were to hold them in place.

I don't think we know for sure that it was not the belts, to be honest. Could have been anything, could have also been the belts.

 

[AllyJane]

Except in Judaism hanging is a curse. Even if it was staged, it could be a message. Also strangulation is personal and up close which would fit with personal revenge. It could fit just fine. Guns are loud. Not sure how close neighbors are.

Hanging is not a curse when you are murder by hanging. There aren't curses in Judaism.

I agree that strangulation is very personal and the houses. Guns are loud and that would have brought attention in the neighbourhood. Especially with such a cavernous house of tile which sound would bounce off of.

 

[Grey-St]

I wonder who the other enemies might be. I don't think that lawsuits with other drug companies would generate such violent, personal hatred. It seems to me that legal challenges are just all in a day's work, and that the lawyers wrangle out the details for the companies, leaving the CEOs at an arms length.

I think anyone he did business with, including the pharma industry, could generate this level of violence and personal hatred. A lot of it was covered here on WS earlier in the threads, and it was also mentioned on The Fifth Estate episode. Many schemes to ruin BS's career and life.

 

[dotr]

Perhaps stealing? Reason I say that is because of a case I posted about a few pages ago. A woman in NYC was found hanging from a shower rod by a bed sheet in her aptmt. The cops initially thought it was a suicide but later arrested a construction worker who had been doing work in her building. I believe it was learned that he had entered the victim's aptmt and was stealing money when she caught him. He then strangled her and tried to make it look like a suicide. Anyway, I think the killer could have been in the Sherman house trying to steal or he may have come over to talk, lost it and wound up strangling one of them and then the other. Maybe I'm totally off, but I think this is possible. JMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrienne_Shelly

Press reported on November 6, 2006, the arrest of a construction worker Diego Pillco, a 19-year-old Ecuadorian illegal immigrant who according to police had confessed on tape to attacking Shelly, and then staging the fake suicide by hanging her.[SUP][18][/SUP][SUP][19][/SUP][SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP] Pillco's original version of what happened was that when Shelly asked if the noise could be kept down, he threw a hammer at her and, afraid she would make a complaint that might result in his deportation, followed her back to her apartment, where the petite 40-year-old hit him, and was killed by a fall during a struggle. Subsequently, Pillco gave a completely different account in which he said while on a break he had noticed Shelly returning to her apartment and followed her. After assaulting her and rendering her unconscious, he killed her by staging the fake suicide

 

[human]

I so desperately do not want to rehash this, so I want to say that I fully respect your opinion, but I don't know how KW could have "chosen" to follow in BS's footsteps. They were handed completely different lives and circumstances. BS had a mentor, KW's father. KW didn't seem to have the same.

KW's life was riddled with trauma and substance use disorders. No one really chooses that either, to be completely honest.

I'm also appalled with his behaviour as a grown adult in recent years, I think he needed and needs today, a tremendous amount of help, and not the monetary kind. He's angry, frightening, vengeful, troubled, hurt, and he should probably be working this all out in a therapist's office instead of a courtroom or on The Fifth Estate. JMO.

I read Barry’s musings rather quickly so I may be way off. It seems like Barry had summer jobs at Empire. Do you have more information on the fact that he was a mentor?

 

[human]

Except in Judaism hanging is a curse. Even if it was staged, it could be a message. Also strangulation is personal and up close which would fit with personal revenge. It could fit just fine. Guns are loud. Not sure how close neighbors are.

What method did Dana use for his alleged murder?

 

[Veeduck]

... Revenge is a response to injustice and killing is justified by murderers who seek an" eye for an eye" or "tooth for a tooth" ...

O/T

I don't mean to disagree with you, minorone, or misconstrue what you've said. I do get what your sentence means, and I agree with it. I just want to remind our readers that this 'Eye For An Eye' principle has been widely misapplied as a justification for those seeking unlimited vengeance.

Actually, this "Law of Retribution" was meant to limit the amount of retribution allowable by law: one can ONLY take an eye for an eye, and ONLY take a tooth for a tooth. As such, it was a great step forward in early civilization, inasmuch as the retribution could be no worse than the crime.

Hope no-one minds this brief but superfluous history lesson. I just think it's unfortunate that we call it 'Eye For An Eye' without prefacing it with the word 'Only.' Because the saying really has lost it's original intent.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Hanging is not a curse when you are murder by hanging. There aren't curses in Judaism.

Deuteronomy 21:22–23 teaches that there was a divine curse placed on a hanged person: “And if a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God. You shall not defile your land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance” (ESV).

There are other examples of curses in Judaism.

 

[clearskies1]

Why would the killer wait three hours until Barry got home?

Yes, that's certainly a problem with the theory if Barry arrived home several hours later. Do we know when Honey arrived home? I've heard she left Apotex around 6 pm. Do we know if she went straight home?

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Yes, that's certainly a problem with the theory if Barry arrived home several hours later. Do we know when Honey arrived home? I've heard she left Apotex around 6 pm. Do we know if she went straight home?

Do we know she was killed right away ? AFAIK we don’t have that timeline.

 

[dotr]

I think anyone he did business with, including the pharma industry, could generate this level of violence and personal hatred. A lot of it was covered here on WS earlier in the threads, and it was also mentioned on The Fifth Estate episode. Many schemes to ruin BS's career and life.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ter-violent-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman

Paul Whybrow, a former undercover fraud detective with London’s famed Scotland Yard police who later worked as a private investigator, confirmed to the Post that a big pharma company had once hired him to target Sherman for investigation.

“I met Sherman a couple of times in the mid ‘90s, having worked my way up the Apotex management structure whilst posing undercover as an international pharmaceutical procurement agent looking to buy product,” Whybrow said. “At this time the pharmaceutical industry had some very dark corners.”

Robinson’s book gives an account, which Whybrow did not deny, of a discreet meeting at a European pub in the ‘90s between Whybrow, another private investigator and a middleman for a Big Pharma company that was anxious to have the thorn-in-the-side Canadian out of the drug business

.

Two of the investigators had just returned from Canada where they had staked out Apotex. To get up close, they had dressed as workers holding clipboards at the company’s loading bays and eating hot dogs with employees at picnic tables outside. The middleman was grasping for more.

“What’s his sexual preference?” he asked the investigators. “Could we get him hooked up with little girls, or even underaged boys?” Though there was never any indication Sherman was interested in such things, the man was eager to “take (Sherman) out of the game,” Whybrow recalled, “whatever it takes.” If there was no basis for a sex sting, the middleman mused about setting Sherman up with a half-kilo of cocaine in his trunk.

Whatever further ideas the middleman had for dirty tricks, Whybrow said it didn’t include him, although he retains an image of Sherman as a troublesome and aggressive businessman.

“As a businessman I believe that Sherman was ruthless in pursuit of fame and indeed fortune