Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[clearskies1]

Your last part is something that has bothered me as well and I am surprised more people haven't focused in on. The staff was there on Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if there were staff on Thursday as well even if it is one person. However even if they were there only Friday, they had access to the house. It is still odd that they didn't discover the bodies because HS and BS cars were still at the house and there had to be some anomalies in the house. Plus if BS and HS were killed Wednesday night, you would think there would be some kind of odour. However, I am still puzzled why it took the realtor to find them (with the maid). Was the maid at the house on Thursday? If so, why did she not find the bodies? I heard that the staff were told not to go to the basement but who says that is true? I mean there is more than a pool down there I believe.

Agree. Unless there's something we don't know, present and former household staff are probably being considered by LE. JMO.

 

[clearskies1]

Do we know she was killed right away ? AFAIK we don’t have that timeline.

No, we don't know, but others have pointed out that there were leaks that she was wearing a jacket/coat when she was found. So many are assuming that she was killed soon after she got home. I'm not convinced of that though.

 

[dotr]

Or the belts are part of the 'message' being sent to those still alive. Something significant. IMO

We don't know enough about the case to figure it out. If it ever goes to court, it will all fall into place. IMO

Spend less money = " Tighten your belt " comes to mind.
The passage in link below is interesting, it is about the use of a belt in a murder. imo, speculation.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ro...e of leather belts for hanging victim&f=false

Criminal Law: A Comparative Approach

By Markus Dubber, Tatjana Hörnle

 

[Grey-St]

Why would the killer wait three hours until Barry got home?

Because they wanted to murder him.

 

[Grey-St]

They could use some of the $20,000 a month allowance

Well we all know that's doubtful, as I'm sure BS did. Who's to say that's not all included in the $8 million they owed him, too?

 

[Grey-St]

I read Barry’s musings rather quickly so I may be way off. It seems like Barry had summer jobs at Empire. Do you have more information on the fact that he was a mentor?

LW? He certainly was a mentor to BS. Took him under his wing and taught him the Pharma business when his own father passed away, it's been reported on, from interviews with BS. I don't think him having summer jobs at Empire negates that.

I had phenomenal mentors in my life. They also helped me gain employment. I'd be lost without them.

 

[human]

LW? He certainly was a mentor to BS. Took him under his wing and taught him the Pharma business when his own father passed away, it's been reported on, from interviews with BS. I don't think him having summer jobs at Empire negates that.

Do you have evidence of that as all Barry says is that he worked there in the summer driving a truck. And one time when Louis went to Bermuda and left no one in charge, Barry saved the day. I did not read any big mentoring spiels by Barry re Louis

 

[Grey-St]

Do you have evidence of that as all Barry says is that he worked there in the summer driving a truck. And one time when Louis went to Bermuda and left no one in charge, Barry saved the day. I did not read any big mentoring spiels by Barry re Louis

It's been posted in these multiple threads. I don't have time to pull it up at the moment, apologies.

 

[PrairieWind]

I would love to keep up with this case but this is one of those threads that moves faster than I have time for. It is so bizarre. Not every day that billionaires are murdered (though I bet statistically they hare more likely to be victims.) I don't know all the details so forgive me for obvious mistakes. It seems that since the wife seems to have been beaten a bit, that would mean it was done to agonize the husband, to get info or a response from him. That seems money related and likely to be someone who has some association with them. But with a victim so involved in business as these folks, the list of potential suspects if endless. Toronto police have their work cut out, especially now that they have the serial killer on their plate as well and have to dig through everyone's flower gardens.

 

[Breamworthy]

I agree. I said earlier that I think it's possible that the killer did not come to the house for the purpose of killing. The manner of death (strangulation) does not fit with a pre-planned double murder. The killer would have probably brought a gun if that was the intention.

I'm not sure how many of the commenters here are American versus Canadian, but it is by no means easy to get a gun in Canada. Now, the types of people who might do something like this probably have better access to guns than I do, but it's not the same as south of the border.

 

[Hazel]

Do you have evidence of that as all Barry says is that he worked there in the summer driving a truck. And one time when Louis went to Bermuda and left no one in charge, Barry saved the day. I did not read any big mentoring spiels by Barry re Louis

If there’s a science gene, Barry inherited it. Two of his mother’s brothers were doctors. A third, Lou Winter, a biochemist with a keen business sense, was the relative he most resembled.

After Herbert Sherman’s death, Lou became Barry’s father figure and mentor, bringing him into his drug business, Empire Laboratories, when he was 18.

Barry was made his uncle’s legal heir when it seemed that Lou and his wife, Beverley, couldn’t have children.

Then, in 1958, Lou and Beverley adopted a baby boy, Tim, and, as sometimes happens, Beverley became pregnant. She gave birth to Jeffrey in 1960, Kerry in 1961 and Dana in 1962. Shortly after the last birth, Beverley was diagnosed with leukemia


https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

I wonder what "was made his uncle's legal heir" mean? :thinking:

Was BS going to inherit all that the Winters own (house, businesses, money) if they died?

Did that stop when they adopted the first boy, and then BW gave birth to the other 3 boys?

I wonder how BS felt when uncle Lou died suddenly and didn't leave a will. :thinking:

 

[human]

It's been posted in these multiple threads. I don't have time to pull it up at the moment, apologies.

Here is Barry’s autobiography. On page,15 he talks about working for,his uncle summers. One job was to bring pregnancy tests to a lab. I do not see the big mentoring in his writings.

https://www.scribd.com/document/367757654/A-Legacy-Of-Thoughts-by-Bernard-C-Sherman

 

[human]

I wonder what "was made his uncle's legal heir" mean? :thinking:

Was BS going to inherit all that the Winters own (house, businesses, money) if they died?

Did that stop when they adopted the first boy, and then BW gave birth to the other 3 boys?

I wonder how BS felt when uncle Lou died suddenly and didn't leave a will. :thinking:

Those are interesting questions.

In Barry’s autobiography, it does not seem like working summers at the lab were that intense.

https://www.scribd.com/document/367757654/A-Legacy-Of-Thoughts-by-Bernard-C-Sherman

 

[Crosby87]

I wonder what Barry did that caused him to get fired from one of his jobs? The article didn't say why he was fired but it must have been for a serious reason. I don't know who he was working for but he later said that was the best thing that happened to him.

 

[human]

I wonder what Barry did that caused him to get fired from one of his jobs? The article didn't say why he was fired but it must have been for a serious reason. I don't know who he was working for but he later said that was the best thing that happened to him.

I think it was when the other company bought his company. Nothing unusual about that. Companies often fire the top people because they want to do things their way and not have some guy think he is in charge because he was before.

 

[Crosby87]

I read through all of these articles and the second one on the list is the only one that said the Sherman’s were wearing winter coats for the purpose of immobilizing their arms. None of the articles said Honey was wearing boots or that the maid was with the real estate agent when she discovered their bodies. All the other articles said the couple was fully clothed.

The team of private investigators believes that the Sherman’s were in fact killed on Dec. 13, two days before they were found. This conclusion is based on the fact that Honey was wearing the same clothes she was last seen in, on Dec. 13, according to the source. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

The Sherman’s were wearing winter coats that were pushed back away from the shoulders and down, which would have the effect of immobilizing the arms. While earlier media reports suggested they died by hanging, sources say that is incorrect. They were found in a seated position at the side of a pool in a lower level of the house, with their legs facing away from the pool. The belts were around the neck, with the end of the belt through the buckle and pulled tight. The free end of each belt was then looped or tied around a low railing that surrounds the pool. Sources say a working theory of the private team probing the deaths is that the Sherman's were strangled by the belts, then the belts were attached to the railing, holding them in a seated position. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

Their bodies were discovered in their mansion on Dec. 15. Gomes said the bodies were hanging by belts from a poolside railing inside the home. The Sherman’s were found in a “semi-seated position,” and both were wearing their clothing, she said. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/sherman-deaths-ruled-double-homicide-1.3776801

Two days later the pair were found fully clothed by the pool "hanging by belts in a semi-seated position on the pool deck," she added. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42840505

They were found strangled, fully clothed on the deck of their indoor pool, hanging by belts. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42864082

Gomes confirmed that both Sherman’s were found wearing their clothing but revealed few other specifics. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...arry-and-honey-sherman-death-case-friday.html

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Spend less money = " Tighten your belt " comes to mind.
The passage in link below is interesting, it is about the use of a belt in a murder. imo, speculation.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=ro...e of leather belts for hanging victim&f=false

Nice! Tighten the belt!
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Repost for those who haven't been able to watch ..

The Mystery of the Sherman MurdersThe Fifth Estate
http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1152581699942


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Breamworthy]

Spend less money = " Tighten your belt " comes to mind.

Wow, that's a chilling image. There are a few people involved to whom one can imagine Barry might have said that the funds were stopping and they would have to tighten their belt.

 

[HastingsChi]

I read through all of these articles and the second one on the list is the only one that said the Sherman’s were wearing winter coats for the purpose of immobilizing their arms. None of the articles said Honey was wearing boots or that the maid was with the real estate agent when she discovered their bodies. All the other articles said the couple was fully clothed.

The team of private investigators believes that the Sherman’s were in fact killed on Dec. 13, two days before they were found. This conclusion is based on the fact that Honey was wearing the same clothes she was last seen in, on Dec. 13, according to the source. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

The Sherman’s were wearing winter coats that were pushed back away from the shoulders and down, which would have the effect of immobilizing the arms. While earlier media reports suggested they died by hanging, sources say that is incorrect. They were found in a seated position at the side of a pool in a lower level of the house, with their legs facing away from the pool. The belts were around the neck, with the end of the belt through the buckle and pulled tight. The free end of each belt was then looped or tied around a low railing that surrounds the pool. Sources say a working theory of the private team probing the deaths is that the Sherman's were strangled by the belts, then the belts were attached to the railing, holding them in a seated position. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

Their bodies were discovered in their mansion on Dec. 15. Gomes said the bodies were hanging by belts from a poolside railing inside the home. The Sherman’s were found in a “semi-seated position,” and both were wearing their clothing, she said. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/sherman-deaths-ruled-double-homicide-1.3776801

Two days later the pair were found fully clothed by the pool "hanging by belts in a semi-seated position on the pool deck," she added. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42840505

They were found strangled, fully clothed on the deck of their indoor pool, hanging by belts. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42864082

Gomes confirmed that both Sherman’s were found wearing their clothing but revealed few other specifics. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...arry-and-honey-sherman-death-case-friday.html

Thanks for this excellent compilation.

Do you or anyone know if the maid or any other staff were off on the 14th?

Also, does anyone know what time the maid and/or other staff left the residence each day?