Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[AllyJane]

Hi. For clarity I didn’t say he removed them. The killers obviously removed them. My point was we don’t know if that was before or after death.

Understood but it is a piece of information from the autopsy that seemed to be missing from your theory. If it was after then BS didn't commit murder suicide is my point. The fact that the ties are missing would make it unusual for BS to kill his wife, put ties on both and remove them and hide them if he was going to commit suicide.

 

[clearskies1]

Imo I believe that the Teva lawsuit has been settled already, and this will be announced soon. My rationale is that it is unlikely that JD resigned voluntarily and thereby surrendered Apotex funding his defence costs. Similarly, If Apotex fired him, I don’t believe they would want a disgruntled ex CEO as a co- defendant. Plus, BS is no longer around to mitigate, corroborate or refute JD’s testimony. Finally if they fired JD without settling the lawsuit first, the firing could be used in court as evidence or suggestion that the espionage allegations were in fact true, and Apotex fired him for it.
The fact that JD is no longer there suggests strongly to me that the suit has already been settled, or will be imminently. Let’s wait for the settlement announcement.

Desai resigned on January 26, 2018. The lawsuit was still active at that point. Four days later, on January 30, 2018 the court ruled on the defendants' motions to dismiss the complaint, ruling that some but not all of the claims against Desai, Sandhu and Apotex could proceed. Defendants usually wait until after a ruling on that motion to make a decision about settlement. Also, resigning normally does not invalidate the duty to defend. Most policies/agreements say that a company will pay defense costs for actions during employment and the fact that someone resigns does not alter that obligation.

 

[ldlager]

Regarding MS or MM. LE announced their belief that this was a MM after the following occurred:
1) LE spent about 6 weeks gathering evidence at the Sherman’s house. Much of the evidence had not and still has not yet been analyzed, and many other investigative actions have not yet been completed by LE.
2) The PI’s and Greenspan used MSM extensively to promote their position that this was a MM. Friends and family of the couple agreed and indicated this could never be a MS, and of course it was a MM.
3) The mayor of Toronto, who is the head of the Police Services Board (the oversight body of the TPS) contacted the chief and other senior members of the TPS to discuss this case; and to evidently relay concerns that had been raised by the family regarding police/family communications. The family was evidently and understandably upset that the original MSM articles indicated this was being investigated as a MS, and LE had not, for many weeks, made any formal statement to dispel the MS stories that had appeared in MSM.

I will leave it to all WS posters to assess the relative importance of each of the above factors in LE finally announcing their belief that this was a MM.
All MOO.

 

[ldlager]

As of January 26th of this year, there is NO settlement. Desai and girlfriend vs Teva is def a go, heading towards 'discovery' while both battle to have it stayed.

I think Desai was tossed out, as fast as possible. Apotex wants to fight this, not keep deadwood as a disgruntled employee whose legals they have to fund.

I doubt Teva will settle for Espionage, its taken very seriously in the business and they were caught red handed.

We shall see. Not anytime soon.

Its now Feb 8. Let’s wait and see.

 

[ldlager]

Understood but it is a piece of information from the autopsy that seemed to be missing from your theory. If it was after then BS didn't commit murder suicide is my point. The fact that the ties are missing would make it unusual for BS to kill his wife, put ties on both and remove them and hide them if he was going to commit suicide.

Agreed. And agreed, It would be unusual.

 

[ldlager]

Desai resigned on January 26, 2018. The lawsuit was still active at that point. Four days later, on January 30, 2018 the court ruled on the defendants' motions to dismiss the complaint, ruling that some but not all of the claims against Desai, Sandhu and Apotex could proceed. Defendants usually wait until after a ruling on that motion to make a decision about settlement. Also, resigning normally does not invalidate the duty to defend. Most policies/agreements say that a company will pay defense costs for actions during employment and the fact that someone resigns does not alter that obligation.

Not when the individual has been accused of theft or negligence. Or certainly Apotex could seek recourse against JD for defence costs if the case was lost. In any event, it’s a moot point as I believe the case is settled, for the reasons I set out.

 

[Tighthead]

Apotex is owned by the Shermans, no one has shares except the family members.

Its a private company and BS was absolutely against going public.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Keay has some shares. Other than that, I suspect it is all family.

 

[clearskies1]

Not when the individual has been accused of theft or negligence. Or certainly Apotex could seek recourse against JD for defence costs if the case was lost. In any event, it’s a moot point as I believe the case is settled, for the reasons I set out.

Yes, but you said he would not voluntarily resign and risk losing defense costs. And my point was his resignation does not have any bearing on who pays his defense costs. Yes, possible misconduct may have a bearing on it but his employment status would not.

 

[JDG]

Regarding MS or MM. LE announced their belief that this was a MM after the following occurred:
1) LE spent about 6 weeks gathering evidence at the Sherman’s house. Much of the evidence had not and still has not yet been analyzed, and many other investigative actions have not yet been completed by LE.
2) The PI’s and Greenspan used MSM extensively to promote their position that this was a MM. Friends and family of the couple agreed and indicated this could never be a MS, and of course it was a MM.
3) The mayor of Toronto, who is the head of the Police Services Board (the oversight body of the TPS) contacted the chief and other senior members of the TPS to discuss this case; and to evidently relay concerns that had been raised by the family regarding police/family communications. The family was evidently and understandably upset that the original MSM articles indicated this was being investigated as a MS, and LE had not, for many weeks, made any formal statement to dispel the MS stories that had appeared in MSM.

I will leave it to all WS posters to assess the relative importance of each of the above factors in LE finally announcing their belief that this was a MM.
All MOO.

Respectfully, the third point is incorrect in a couple of ways. IMO

The families initial complaint was that there was a failure to notify next of kin. They found out that there were bodies in their family home via media. BSs sister was on vacation when she received phone calls and you can imagine the upset and confusion. Police are supposed to notify next of kin before IDing anyone to the media. To fail to do so, needs to be corrected by TPS immediately.

Of course they weren't happy with the idea that there was a suicide or a double murder. They would prefer none of this had happened. IMO

Secondly, once the autopsy reports were in, LE held a presser where they updated the media with COD and henceforth referred to the deaths as suspicious. They held that pov until fairly recently, I think it was the day they handed the home back to the family. So, it wasn't weeks of MS but weeks of 'suspicious deaths' which could either be MS or MM. IMO

 

[ldlager]

Yes, but you said he would not voluntarily resign and risk losing defense costs. And my point was his resignation does not have any bearing on who pays his defense costs. Yes, possible misconduct may have a bearing on it but his employment status would not.

And my point was that resignation in this instance for this type of alleged crime could well affect Apotex’s position re funding his defence costs.

 

[ldlager]

Respectfully, the third point is incorrect in a couple of ways. IMO

The families initial complaint was that there was a failure to notify next of kin. They found out that there were bodies in their family home via media. BSs sister was on vacation when she received phone calls and you can imagine the upset and confusion. Police are supposed to notify next of kin before IDing anyone to the media. To fail to do so, needs to be corrected by TPS immediately.

Of course they weren't happy with the idea that there was a suicide or a double murder. They would prefer none of this had happened. IMO

Secondly, once the autopsy reports were in, LE held a presser where they updated the media with COD and henceforth referred to the deaths as suspicious. They held that pov until fairly recently, I think it was the day they handed the home back to the family. So, it wasn't weeks of MS but weeks of 'suspicious deaths' which could either be MS or MM. IMO

As I stated, one of the issues reportedly discussed by the mayor with LE was the communications lapses between LE and the family. As for the other point, the family and many friends were obviously upset that the term “suspicious deaths” did not preclude MS. And that situation existed for many weeks as you stated.

 

[Grey-St]

Regarding MS or MM. LE announced their belief that this was a MM after the following occurred:
1) LE spent about 6 weeks gathering evidence at the Sherman’s house. Much of the evidence had not and still has not yet been analyzed, and many other investigative actions have not yet been completed by LE.
2) The PI’s and Greenspan used MSM extensively to promote their position that this was a MM. Friends and family of the couple agreed and indicated this could never be a MS, and of course it was a MM.
3) The mayor of Toronto, who is the head of the Police Services Board (the oversight body of the TPS) contacted the chief and other senior members of the TPS to discuss this case; and to evidently relay concerns that had been raised by the family regarding police/family communications. The family was evidently and understandably upset that the original MSM articles indicated this was being investigated as a MS, and LE had not, for many weeks, made any formal statement to dispel the MS stories that had appeared in MSM.

I will leave it to all WS posters to assess the relative importance of each of the above factors in LE finally announcing their belief that this was a MM.
All MOO.

I don't think any of it is relevant. I think it took LE 6 weeks to thoroughly investigate a complex case in order to rule on MOD.

 

[clearskies1]

And my point was that resignation in this instance for this type of alleged crime could well affect Apotex’s position re funding his defence costs.

Thanks, I didn't get that from your original post. I've worked in this area of the law and resignation would not impact defense costs, unless the highly unusual happened and the person admitted to misconduct.

 

[ldlager]

Thanks, I didn't get that from your original post. I've worked in this area of the law and resignation would not impact defense costs, unless the highly unusual happened and the person admitted to misconduct.

Thanks, sorry I wasn’t very clear in my post.

 

[clearskies1]

I don't think any of it is relevant. I think it took LE 6 weeks to thoroughly investigate a complex case in order to rule on MOD.

Has the coroner said anything about the manner of death in the Sherman case --suicide, homicide, undetermined, pending etc?

 

[clearskies1]

Thanks, sorry I wasn’t very clear in my post.

BTW, I like your posts Idlager. Insightful and refreshing!

 

[ldlager]

BTW, I like your posts Idlager. Insightful and refreshing!

Thank you. Trying to keep the discussion going in the absence of news...lol

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

As a private company Apotex is limited to a maximum of 49 shareholders. The shares aren’t liquid, and dealing with minority shareholders who would have a minuscule position is a pain.

Employee shareholders don't count toward the limit.
The Securities Act provides that a corporation is private if the Articles restrict the right to transfer shares, limit the number of shareholders (not including employees) to 50, and prohibit any invitation to the public to buy securities.
http://incorporationontario.ca/incorporation-basics/corporate-organization/shares-and-shareholders/

Apotex is owned by the Shermans, no one has shares except the family members.

Its a private company and BS was absolutely against going public.

It's very common for private companies to grant shares to the executives as part of their compensation package. Since virtually all public companies give their execs stock, it would be pretty hard to compete for talent without doing the same.

There have been reports that at least some of the execs wanted to go public. If they didn't own stock and the company went public, there would be no benefit to them and no reason for them to push for it.

If they did have stock, an IPO would make the execs wealthy. Big, big $. I worked at a company that had been private, but stock was routinely given to employees as incentive bonuses. Unfortunately, I came in after the IPO. So many average workers made millions. Very common to see Ferraris and Lamborghinis in the parking lot.

JMO, the people who wanted to go public certainly owned stock.

As a side note, it is possible to take a company public and still maintain virtually complete control. The Ford family still controls Ford. Sheldon Adelson owns somewhere around 85% of the Las Vegas Sands. Viacom's founder still owns around 80%, the Graham family owned around 70% prior to selling to Bezos, the Lauren family owns about 70% of Ralph Lauren. Lots of examples. Makes me wonder why he was so resistant to the idea, especially at his age. It would make things much easier for the next generation.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[JDG]

Not when the individual has been accused of theft or negligence. Or certainly Apotex could seek recourse against JD for defence costs if the case was lost. In any event, it’s a moot point as I believe the case is settled, for the reasons I set out.

You can believe the case is settled but until/unless there is an announcement, it isn't a moot point, is it?

 

[JDG]

Has the coroner said anything about the manner of death in the Sherman case --suicide, homicide, undetermined, pending etc?

TPS says its a double homicide. Both victims were targeted.