Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[AllyJane]

I know that it keeps being brought up about no forced entry but don't forget that the housekeeper was in the house when the real estate agent and buyers showed up on Friday. So either there is access to a key or a lockbox or other type of electronic entry. Plus the alarms must not have been on when the housekeeper arrived or else it would have been set off. And if the housekeeper had access to a code, doesn't it make it possible that there is other ways for someone to access entry without forcing a door open?
Plus the "no signs of forced entry" was something the office said just after the bodies were discovered. Not sure at that point what kind of search they could have done throughout the house without disturbing the crime scene.

It is not hard to get access to a home (especially if the alarms are off) especially if the home owners are home or just arriving. IMHO it is naive to assume that because there was no signs of forced entry on day one that it can't be targetted double murder.

 

[2Hope4]

Yes, there can be a crime with no forced entry. And people have been murdered that opened the door to let the murderer in. I just feel like I don't have enough evidence at this point to even think about a real suspect, or a real crime. I just don't know.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Is this a "first" on WS? We have a Verified Insider who is related to the victims, freely states that he hated both of them, and says he has been told that he is the prime suspect in their murders.

Maybe so....but let’s be clear: l don’t relish in the notoriety.

 

[kiwi50]

I cant remember another case, where a victim had so many potential enemies in just about every aspect of his life.

 

[Grey-St]

It seems like a lot of folks are posing many questions regarding the crime scene and this case in general, seemingly in support of a M/S. "But what about this", "but what about that". The reality is, we don't know. No one here likely has the answers to these questions. LE obviously has good reason to call this a targeted double homicide, that's what we do know. There's no reason to assume they don't have evidence to substantiate this. Just because we don't know what the evidence is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

To imply that there's no surveillance evidence, or anything at the crime scene to support M/M, etc, is just irresponsible in my opinion. We know next to nothing at the end of the day. So unless you can provide legitimate facts to support these claims, it's really just your opinion, even if you're a verified insider. (No offence intended towards KW! We are happy to have you here).

This has been, and is continuing to be, thoroughly investigated. There is likely good reason to treat this as a targeted double homicide.

 

[Errrr]

I cant remember another case, where a victim had so many potential enemies in just about every aspect of his life.

Only on "Murder she Wrote".

 

[WINDSOR]

Lot of speculation about cameras and security audio/video evidence.

If we are dealing with professional assassins, as I think we are, I am sure they had the knowledge and expertise to stop, defeat, remove and/or delete any A/V recordings. It is not that difficult even with the best security systems in place.

 

[deugirtni]

From last thread:

Posted by ldlager
In Toronto, based on what I have seen, it is usually the fire trucks that arrive first on the scene after a 911 call for medical assistance. Then paramedics often arrive. Then the police. One thing I haven’t heard mentioned anywhere is if fire or parameds were the first on scene at the Sherman’s. It has been reported that the Sherman 911 call required assistance for a medical incident. It probably means nothing, but does anyone recall any reference to fire or paramedics arriving at the Sherman house? Just curious.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-7&p=14105027#post14105027

This is from Dec.15/17, the day the bodies were found, when Constable David Hopkinson was speaking to MSM (transcribed by me):

Reporter: Who was the first on the scene, Police or Fire?

CDH: I don't know that.

Reporter: And did Fire stay on the scene for any length of time?

CDH: I don't, I don't know uh, when.. when you receive a medical complaint, we have what's called 3 tiered response. That means Police, Fire and Ambulance show up? I know that Fire, Ambulance, and Police showed up to the scene - how long they were here, I don't know; it would be uh, the ambulance drivers or the ambu, the paramedics' responsibility, um, to look after the health of the bodies and to determine uh, or pronounce death, I believe that's what occurred. I believe the people are *still* here, and we are investigating.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3919693/barry-and-honey-sherman-apotex/

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I have to ask: what about 'Louie the quasi-gangster'/hitman who seemed to be on speed dial?

 

[human]

I have to ask: what about 'Louie the quasi-gangster'/hitman who seemed to be on speed dial?

Who is that?

 

[dotr]

http://business.financialpost.com/entrepreneur/architect-of-a-well-laid-plan
January 23, 2012

[h=1]Architect of a well-laid plan[/h] [h=2]Putting in place an exit strategy that is right for your business will ensure a smooth transition whether to key employees or family[/h]

Before Louis Winter died in 1965, he likely didn’t expect a billion-dollar legal battle would be raging over his pharmaceutical business almost 50 years later.

Survey after survey regularly warns that a large chunk of small business owners still have no exit plans in place, and that companies like Mr. Winters will end up leaving a trust company in charge.
The drawn-out court fight over his estate, pitting family members against each other, could be a cautionary tale for modern-day entrepreneurs thinking about the long-term fate of their own enterprises.

Mr. Winter and his wife Beverly died within weeks of each other, leaving behind four orphaned young boys as well as Empire Companies, a collection of pharmaceutical and chemical companies.

“The big thing is you don’t want to cause a division within the family,” he says, recalling a client who died suddenly without a succession plan after building a large, successful business. His three children have been “at each others’ throats” and spent about 15 years in court and in excess of $2-million on legal fees, Mr. George says.

“You can get a hatred within the family. So then aunts and uncles don’t get to know their nephews and nieces, cousins don’t get to know their cousins – it can get quite ugly.”

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Who is that?

KW said in an interview that BS at one point asked him to arrange to have HS killed. KW said he contacted 'Louie' to take care of it.

I'd have to dig to find the link to where KW names 'Louie', it may have been in a radio interview.

The whole story about BS asking to arrange the murder appeared to be proven untrue in the Fifth Estate program (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ov7SCivAo5A).

...but I still wondered about him as he was mentioned by name.

 

[ldlager]

From last thread:


https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-7&p=14105027#post14105027

This is from Dec.15/17, the day the bodies were found, when Constable David Hopkinson was speaking to MSM (transcribed by me):

https://globalnews.ca/news/3919693/barry-and-honey-sherman-apotex/

Thank you. FWIW, the constable does definitively state at 2.28 that there is no risk to public safety.

 

[Grey-St]

http://business.financialpost.com/entrepreneur/architect-of-a-well-laid-plan
January 23, 2012

Amen to that...

 

[Grey-St]

Thank you. FWIW, the constable does definitively state at 2.28 that there is no risk to public safety.

So ridiculous.

 

[ldlager]

So ridiculous.

Me, or him?:thinking:

 

[AllyJane]

KW said in an interview that BS at one point asked him to arrange to have HS killed. KW said he contacted 'Louie' to take care of it.

The whole story about BS asking to arrange the murder appeared to be proven untrue in the Fifth Estate program (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ov7SCivAo5A).

.

As I recall also from Fifth Estate, KW did not pass their polygraph and admitted that he embellished his story about "whacking" Honey.

 

[human]

Police often say there is no risk to the public . I read it all the time on here

 

[SeesSeas]

As I recall also from Fifth Estate, KW did not pass their polygraph and admitted that he embellished his story about "whacking" Honey.

[FONT=&amp]Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.[/FONT]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176

Winter's bizarre allegation of the plot to kill Honey Sherman includes the claim that he lined up a hit man to do the job two decades ago.
"He said, 'I want you to whack my wife,'" Winter claimed. Winter then claimed the plan was aborted at the last minute.
"I called him and said: 'You know, there's no turning back, Barry, if I push the button,'" Winter said.
The Fifth Estate interviewed two of Winter's friends who said they were told of the plot two decades ago, but neither had any direct knowledge of such a plot ever happening.
[...]
Winter and his lawyer agreed to a lie detector test on the question of whether or not Barry Sherman had asked him to arrange the killing of his wife.
The test, filmed by The Fifth Estate, was conducted by former Quebec police officer and veteran polygraph expert John Galianos.
Galianos determined that Winter was not being truthful about the alleged plot and that he "failed" the test.
While not admissible in court because of possible inaccuracies, polygraphs are commonly used by police officers to determine truthfulness.
Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.
"He was lying, and the test results — the polygraphist — confirms that," said Michael Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., who observed the polygraph test.

 

[SeesSeas]

Kerry,
Three months ago, you were quoted by CBC news[FONT=&amp] "I had nothing to do with it. I don't know who did it." [/FONT]
Yesterday, here on Websleuths, you wrote "Barry killed Honey...then hung himself."

Three months ago, did you believe that the deaths of Barry and Honey were double murder?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-7&p=14105175#post14105175
May 12, 2018
Kerry Winter
The truth will come out. Barry killed Honey...then hung himself.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176
[FONT=&amp]Posted: Feb 01, 2018 5:15 PM ET | Last Updated: February 2[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]On the advice of his lawyer, Winter also declined to take a lie detector test on the question of whether he killed the Shermans.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Winter admits he could be seen as a suspect in the Sherman killings.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]"I probably had reasons to lash out to do the dirty deed," he told The Fifth Estate's Bob McKeown. "I had nothing to do with it. I don't know who did it."
[/FONT]
^^snips