Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[ldlager]

Police often say there is no risk to the public . I read it all the time on here

Yeah, right after someone is killed! Lol

 

[Grey-St]

Me, or him?:thinking:

Oh the police statement! Not you! Lol.

 

[Hazel]

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May 14, 2018

Terms of the deal were not disclosed, but according to a public filing (PDF) by Strides, the two have agreed to a share swap in which the Indian company will hold majority control. Strides said it will be earning accretive from year one.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufa...tralia-businesses-to-become-country-s-largest

 

[Tortoise]

In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...d-from-murder-suicide-to-double-homicide.html

Originally posted by Lexiintoronto
KW also suggests at the 2:02 mark of the clip that the Shermans were holding hands. That seems like new information. He mentions rope as well. TPS only mentioned belts.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-5&p=13903515#post13903515


Video in article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-killed-wife-says-cousin.html#ixzz55n9Z72iv

 

[Lexiintoronto]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...d-from-murder-suicide-to-double-homicide.html


https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-5&p=13903515#post13903515


Video in article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-killed-wife-says-cousin.html#ixzz55n9Z72iv

Thank you for putting it all together, Tortoise. I had forgotten that detail.

(What kind of rope were you thinking of, KW?)

Your post made me think of the injuries to the Sherman's wrists. I'm wondering if the killer cut the bindings, and there were marks on the wrist area that would indicate that.

Speculation: before death--injuries on their wrists from being bound. After death--injuries to the bodies (could be a bruise) made while using a sharp object used to cut the bindings.

ETA: at around the 2:29 mark in the DM article KW talks about 'Louie'. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-killed-wife-says-cousin.html#ixzz55n9Z72iv

 

[SeesSeas]

ROPE was reported here:

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...death-of-philanthropic-toronto-couple-pending

Published:December 18, 2017
Updated:December 18, 2017 7:12 AM EDT
TORONTO — Toronto Police have revealed that power couple Honey and Barry Sherman were strangled.
The autopsy results, issued by Toronto Police Sunday night, showed Barry, 75 and Honey, 70, died from “ligature neck compression” – either due to a rope or manual strangulation.
[...]

 

[human]

Thank you for putting it all together, Tortoise. I had forgotten that detail.

(What kind of rope were you thinking of, KW?)

Your post made me think of the injuries to the Sherman's wrists. I'm wondering if the killer cut the bindings, and there were marks on the wrist area that would indicate that.

Speculation: before death--injuries on their wrists from being bound. After death--injuries to the bodies (could be a bruise) made while using a sharp object used to cut the bindings.

I don’t think marks can be left after death. That is how it is figured out if things happen before or after death. No bruising after death possible

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Police often say there is no risk to the public . I read it all the time on here

Yeah, right after someone is killed! Lol

Exactly!

No risk to the public: Capybaras on the loose.

Arguably a risk to the public: Killer(s) at large.

 

[Alice Ramnit]

Exactly!

No risk to the public: Capybaras on the loose.

Arguably a risk to the public: Killer(s) at large.

:laughing:

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I don’t think marks can be left after death. That is how it is figured out if things happen before or after death. No bruising after death possible

I googled 'post mortem bruising' and a number of articles came up, but they're copyrighted.

This article mentions it in part:

. Careless handling of a cadaver may produce some post-mortem bruising which may need to be distinguished from antemortem bruising.

Antemortem Injuries - Dictionary definition of Antemortem Injuries | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/antemortem-injuries

 

[human]

I googled 'post mortem bruising' and a number of articles came up, but they're copyrighted.

This article mentions it in part:

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/antemortem-injuries

That article is from 2005 , yet it still says that techniques have been found to distinguish post mortem bruising.

I cannot copy but it is at the end

 

[ldlager]

I don’t think marks can be left after death. That is how it is figured out if things happen before or after death. No bruising after death possible

I am wondering if Lexiintoronto was also referring to cut marks in the skin from the knife when the bindings were cut, as opposed to just bruising?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am wondering if Lexiintoronto was also referring to cut marks in the skin from the knife when the bindings were cut, as opposed to just bruising?

Yes. And it’s just *speculation*: I was thinking about zip ties: put on tightly enough to injure, and it might be easy to leave a different injury in removing them.

 

[human]

Yes. And it’s just *speculation*: I was thinking about zip ties: put on tightly enough to injure, and it might be easy to leave a different injury in removing them.

There can be no bleeding hours afterwards, however, from death

 

[andreww]

Sad state of affairs when TPS spends more than a month on this case, has every piece of evidence available to them, and they believe Honey was the only victim. Then they speak to a retired coroner who was HIRED BY THE FAMILY, and four days later they announce that this is definitely a double murder.

I'm sorry, but either TPS are just a group of incompetent fools, or something is definitely being covered up. I just cannot believe the current coroner would not spot any of these things, especially given that this is such a high profile case and those are the exact things he would have been looking for. Theoretically the younger coroner should be far more proficient than the older retired guy simply due to rapid advancements in science.

Nope, I still ain't buying it. Cops were right from the beginning and they are burying the truth at the request of the family.

 

[human]

The cops spent hours and hours investigating the crime. It seems impossible that they would waste money like that.

So the family does not like the verdict. What would that matter?

It does seem very strange that the marks were not noticed by the coroner. Although sometimes people get an idea and cannot see what is right in front of them.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

[FONT=&]Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.[/FONT]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176

Winter's bizarre allegation of the plot to kill Honey Sherman includes the claim that he lined up a hit man to do the job two decades ago.
"He said, 'I want you to whack my wife,'" Winter claimed. Winter then claimed the plan was aborted at the last minute.
"I called him and said: 'You know, there's no turning back, Barry, if I push the button,'" Winter said.
The Fifth Estate interviewed two of Winter's friends who said they were told of the plot two decades ago, but neither had any direct knowledge of such a plot ever happening.
[...]
Winter and his lawyer agreed to a lie detector test on the question of whether or not Barry Sherman had asked him to arrange the killing of his wife.
The test, filmed by The Fifth Estate, was conducted by former Quebec police officer and veteran polygraph expert John Galianos.
Galianos determined that Winter was not being truthful about the alleged plot and that he "failed" the test.
While not admissible in court because of possible inaccuracies, polygraphs are commonly used by police officers to determine truthfulness.
Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.
"He was lying, and the test results — the polygraphist — confirms that," said Michael Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., who observed the polygraph test.

Why make up those kind of lies?

 

[JDG]

The cops spent hours and hours investigating the crime. It seems impossible that they would waste money like that.

So the family does not like the verdict. What would that matter?

It does seem very strange that the marks were not noticed by the coroner. Although sometimes people get an idea and cannot see what is right in front of them.

Where does it say that the coroner did not notice the marks?? The report I read, said he had seen the marks.

Remember, it was not TPS who reported this as a M/S, it was a 'reporter' who said they had it from a 'police source'. THAT means nothing. Im talking about while the bodies were still in the home.

As for while TPS waited a month, it seems odd but we have NO idea of why or what else was transpiring during that time.

Without such knowledge, one cannot make a fair assessment.

It will, however, play out eventually. Maybe. lol

 

[human]

Where does it say that the coroner did not notice the marks?? The report I read, said he had seen the marks.

Remember, it was not TPS who reported this as a M/S, it was a 'reporter' who said they had it from a 'police source'. THAT means nothing. Im talking about while the bodies were still in the home.

As for while TPS waited a month, it seems odd but we have NO idea of why or what else was transpiring during that time.

Without such knowledge, one cannot make a fair assessment.

It will, however, play out eventually. Maybe. lol

Thanks. That makes much more sense

 

[matou]

ROPE was reported here:

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...death-of-philanthropic-toronto-couple-pending

Published:December 18, 2017
Updated:December 18, 2017 7:12 AM EDT
TORONTO — Toronto Police have revealed that power couple Honey and Barry Sherman were strangled.
The autopsy results, issued by Toronto Police Sunday night, showed Barry, 75 and Honey, 70, died from “ligature neck compression” – either due to a rope or manual strangulation.
[...]

Ligature neck compression, from a rope OR manual strangulation??? I would think the manual strangulation would leave finger and thumb bruising on the neck. Very strange.