Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[deugirtni]

The security systems that have been installed in my homes are monitored by a security company. My control panels are near each outside door. They are operated by a Bluetooth to the security company not a phone line for security purposes. Once the security company installs the system including the cameras I can not change anything. I can not override the system or attempt to cover a camera or disarm a camera. The security company controls everything. I can disarm and arm the system.
***However I do have a Bluetooth key fob that will arm or disarm the system that I keep on my key ring.***

So say you want to secretly install a system in someone else's home without being seen.. ?? I think that is what MistyWaters was trying to suggest upthread a bit?? So you get the tiny cam stuck somewhere, but... how does it know where to send the info without also installing a central box down the basement or somewhere? I feel so stupid right now.

 

[Sanz]

So say you want to secretly install a system in someone else's home without being seen.. ?? I think that is what MistyWaters was trying to suggest upthread a bit?? So you get the tiny cam stuck somewhere, but... how does it know where to send the info without also installing a central box down the basement or somewhere? I feel so stupid right now.

My son has a Bluetooth Nanny Cam that he installed himself it’s ran off an app in his phone that is run off his home WiFi. He installed this so his wife could check on her dog. She can check that camera while they are on vacation. I would think by just looking at it. Anyone could install one.
Also these cameras aren’t right out in your face they are small and not really detectable. They don’t look like something at a grocery store.

 

[MistyWaters]

So say you want to secretly install a system in someone else's home without being seen.. ?? I think that is what MistyWaters was trying to suggest upthread a bit?? So you get the tiny cam stuck somewhere, but... how does it know where to send the info without also installing a central box down the basement or somewhere? I feel so stupid right now.

It’s not easy to keep up with technology for sure. But yes, it seems it could be possible that Shermans were stalked inside their home including listening in to their conversations by someone hiding a small battery operated stand alone security device somewhere. They run via an app and are wireless, my guess is it’d work much the same as a cellphone via wireless connectivity although I’m only going by the features and benefits that I’ve noticed on google.

 

[deugirtni]

It’s not easy to keep up with technology for sure. But yes, it seems it could be possible that Shermans were stalked inside their home including listening in to their conversations by someone hiding a small battery operated stand alone security device somewhere. They run via an app and are wireless, my guess is it’d work much the same as a cellphone via wireless connectivity although I’m only going by the features and benefits that I’ve noticed on google.

I'm just saying, wouldn't something of *that* nature, have to be very very close in proximity for it to be viewed/heard by the installer?

 

[deugirtni]

It’s not easy to keep up with technology for sure. But yes, it seems it could be possible that Shermans were stalked inside their home including listening in to their conversations by someone hiding a small battery operated stand alone security device somewhere. They run via an app and are wireless, my guess is it’d work much the same as a cellphone via wireless connectivity although I’m only going by the features and benefits that I’ve noticed on google.

Aside from the possibility that the couple were being recorded in their own home without their knowledge... what would the purpose have been? To know when one or both were at home or not at home? Do it over a long period of time to determine regular schedules?

 

[kay74]

My son has a Bluetooth Nanny Cam that he installed himself it’s ran off an app in his phone that is run off his home WiFi. He installed this so his wife could check on her dog. She can check that camera while they are on vacation. I would think by just looking at it. Anyone could install one.
Also these cameras aren’t right out in your face they are small and not really detectable. They don’t look like something at a grocery store.

Does this show the inside of the whole home? Can you roam with it?

 

[Sanz]

Does this show the inside of the whole home? Can you roam with it?

No when I’ve been shown the phone with the area being monitored, it’s coverage is for a small area the camera angle is not broad span like a professionally installed security camera. Yes you can move this Nanny Cam around to other areas in the home that you want to monitor. It’s got great clarity for the area it serves.

 

[Sanz]

Aside from the possibility that the couple were being recorded in their own home without their knowledge... what would the purpose have been? To know when one or both were at home or not at home? Do it over a long period of time to determine regular schedules?

One way to know The whereabouts of people is through GPS tracking devices and Cell Phone Apps. My son has an app on my grandsons cell phone. He can even tell how fast the kid drives the car. There are some rather expensive apps you can install on a cell phone in less than 5 minutes.
I’d thinking it would be pretty boring to not have full access to the home and depend on a small device camera.

 

[kay74]

No when I’ve been shown the phone with the area being monitored, it’s coverage is for a small area the camera angle is not broad span like a professionally installed security camera. Yes you can move this Nanny Cam around to other areas in the home that you want to monitor. It’s got great clarity for the area it serves.

Thanks. That answers my question.

 

[kay74]

One way to know The whereabouts of people is through GPS tracking devices and Cell Phone Apps. My son has an app on my grandsons cell phone. He can even tell how fast the kid drives the car. There are some rather expensive apps you can install on a cell phone in less than 5 minutes.
I’d thinking it would be pretty boring to not have full access to the home and depend on a small device camera.

 

[kay74]

My son-in-law has an app like that for his kids too.

 

[MistyWaters]

Aside from the possibility that the couple were being recorded in their own home without their knowledge... what would the purpose have been? To know when one or both were at home or not at home? Do it over a long period of time to determine regular schedules?

Well I don’t really know anything except my thoughts but considering how the bodies were staged, it doesn’t seem to bear any similarities to a typical get-in-and-out-as-fast-as-possible paid professional hit. There’s a deep element of personal twisted bitterness involved here, I think. Much like any stalking situation, the perp probably salivates a great deal in advance of an eventual attack and secretly observing the prey is one means that’s quite common. So if the couple were unknowingly monitored and recorded inside their home, aside from learning about their upcoming plans, the perp might’ve done so also as a means of obtaining very warped personal gratification, amidst the planning of their imminent deaths.

The murders took place on Wednesday, Honey was leaving for Florida in five days, four nights, on the following Monday. There was early mention that Shermans indeed owned a condo plus other real estate holdings but I don’t have the link at hand just now. But what if they indeed planned a mover to complete the move while they were gone, suppose the condo was occupied until the end of December. As well, we don’t know what the couple’s Dec 15th weekend plans consisted of. Unless their children were spending Xmas in Florida as well, it’s possible some kind of family gathering was planned, possibly involving overnight guests.

If all that were so, it would be a very great coincidence that the murders occurred in the home in such a narrow window of opportunity, without the perp/s having access to very specific inside information. Had they waited another few days, Honey wouldn’t have been home.

TPS were quite adamant in stating both of the homicides were targeted. Targeted can be defined as both Shermans were the intended victims, but it could also refer to a methodical preplanning utilizing information in order to plan when, where and how to target them.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm just saying, wouldn't something of *that* nature, have to be very very close in proximity for it to be viewed/heard by the installer?

How close is very close? I don’t really know but according to advertisements, one per room appears adequate.

The location where couples dine in their home is often where the majority of the daily conversation occurs, by my way of thinking.

My intent is not to prove any devices were clandestinely planted in the home, it’s just a possibility.

 

[Sanz]

How close is very close? I don’t really know but according to advertisements, one per room appears adequate.

The location where couples dine in their home is often where the majority of the daily conversation occurs, by my way of thinking.

My intent is not to prove any devices were clandestinely planted in the home, it’s just a possibility.

I was just informed the “Granny/Nanny Cam” I have been describing is designed to cover video/audio for a 14’ x 20’area with the camera positioned no higher than 8’, the higher the camera the audio is not clear.

 

[human]

The Sherman house is huge so there would have to be cameras throughout.

If there is a key type card, my understanding is that there are all kinds of readers that can get info off of your cards,

Anyone could have waited with a device and gotten info off of the card

 

[MistyWaters]

I was just informed the “Granny/Nanny Cam” I have been describing is designed to cover video/audio for a 14’ x 20’area with the camera positioned no higher than 8’, the higher the camera the audio is not clear.

Thanks! When you refer to granny/nanny cams is that one and the same as battery operated security cameras? Just wondering because it appears the use has broadened beyond child supervision into what’s intended as DIY home security. No wires, no downloading, just view the app from anywhere. One model can even support a two way conversation though its speakers from a cellphone. Others offer panorama views and most demonstrate both clear and crisp focus combined with audio from within a room. Others can even be left inside a vehicle and sound an alarm when the car moves, a deterant for thieves. What a fast paced world of technology we live in! But that’s the extent of my online searching, an IT geek I surely am not!

 

[1&2&3]

My son had a type of “Nanny Cam” that worked on WiFi. His office was over an hour away and he could check into the nursery without any problems.

He did get rid of or turn off this app as other people, hackers, could also see into the nursery. This was in 2015 when news came out about this one type of nanny cam. I am not technically smart to give you the proper wording.

 

[Sanz]

Thanks! When you refer to granny/nanny cams is that one and the same as battery operated security cameras? Just wondering because it appears the use has broadened beyond child supervision into what’s intended as DIY home security. No wires, no downloading, just view the app from anywhere. One model can even support a two way conversation though its speakers from a cellphone. Others offer panorama views and most demonstrate both clear and crisp focus combined with from within a room. Others can even be left inside a vehicle and sound an alarm when the car moves, a deterant for thieves. What a fast paced world of technology we live in! But that’s the extent of my online searching, an IT geek I surely am not!

Only what I know is this unit is wireless it does have a battery. It’s a stand-alone. It connects to the WiFi system in the house through Bluetooth. You can download the app that the system recommends and then have the ability to view the video/audio from wherever you are as long as you have signal.

 

[MistyWaters]

The Sherman house is huge so there would have to be cameras throughout.

If there is a key type card, my understanding is that there are all kinds of readers that can get info off of your cards,

Anyone could have waited with a device and gotten info off of the card

Is your theory the perp/s merely picked Dec 13th as the night, somehow got access into the home and took it from there? If so, maybe that’s what happened. Considering nobody had reason to become alarmed over their absence anytime on Thursday, a day later, it (unfortunately) worked for them, perhaps better than they hoped.

 

[Sanz]

The Sherman house is huge so there would have to be cameras throughout.

If there is a key type card, my understanding is that there are all kinds of readers that can get info off of your cards,

Anyone could have waited with a device and gotten info off of the card

Thanks an interesting point. The only way I’d feel comfortable is to inquire as to how these cards work. I know the electronic key boxes they have used on my homes had a card to identify the agent, clients and times back to the Brokers office. I’ve never stood and watched how they work. I’d like to know.