Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[MistyWaters]

I did say "practice", not policy.

Sorry, what I meant to say is unfortunately we don’t know if all MLS realtors practised the guideline or why TPS stated those who accessed the lockbox was important information. I quoted the word “guide” from your link.

Let’s just hope the homicide is solved soon, regardless of how any preplanning took place.

 

[MistyWaters]

Radar Online is not MSM. Early MSM reports gave specifics of the realtor showing the potential buyers at the home that morning. IIRC, it was said that the cleaning and plant staff attended every Friday.

Yes this very early Globe and Mail article might’ve been what was recycled —

“.....A relative, who asked not to be identified, said a real estate agent, preparing for an open house, had discovered the two bodies in the large home's basement Friday morning....”
Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home

 

[Kerry Winter]

If someone removed the camera how would there still be audio?I think this audio claim is a bit suspect.

If Barry covered his face...moved the camera, yet forgot to turn off the audio.
What do you say Dr. Watson.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Sorry, what I meant to say is unfortunately we don’t know if all MLS realtors practised the guideline or why TPS stated those who accessed the lockbox was important information. I quoted the word “guide” from your link.

Let’s just hope the homicide is solved soon, regardless of how any preplanning took place.

The double homicide being solved soon....highly unlikely. The multiple phantom murderers are flying around and hard to find. Lol!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Have you googled any of the stickon battery operated security cameras with both video and audio capability and noticed how compact some of them are? It sure was an eye-opener for me.

Apropos:
Wouldn't you (the one, who arrives first) deactivate the whole system, as soon as you enter your own home? Why didn't Honey do that, if she was the first person? Why didn't Barry do that? Why "a jacket over head" and so on?? Because they both were "guests" in their own home, afterwards (after what exactly?) going to their "transitional home"?? Therefore also not undressing their outdoor clothes, because they were only "visitors" for a certain time?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

There was a car stealing ring in Toronto for a time where a thief would slip into a house and remove the car keys ( often left in obvious place like a hook near the door ect) and have the key copied before they slipped the key back to its spot.
Later, perhaps much later, the car would be stolen and parked elsewhere, if nobody notices the watched stolen car, it would then get picked up from the new parking space and apparently driven off to a shipping container and sent to other countries.

If that could be done with car keys, house keys could be stolen that way too and used at another time.
Unless somebody had been hiding in the house for awhile......egads!
Although in this situation, as has been previously noted, the house keys could have somehow been taken from the real estate " lock box".
Speculation, imo.

1. Reminds me of DM/MS - I wonder, why. - Speculation. -
2. Your speculations are always very interesting!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It seems like too many assumptions are being made, imho. It was merely theorized that IF the couple were to sell their home prior to their new home being completed, they would require an interim home.
There's no way a perp could install a CCTV system inside a home he was being shown by a realtor (unless the realtor was also in on it).
While many people might pay cash for a home and not require a mortgage, it goes the opposite way here, wherein one would more likely be working with a newbie realtor for the financial sitch NOT to be known ahead of spending time showing homes. The seasoned realtors don't have time to deal with purchasers who want to see this and that without having even vetted their financial ability. Realtors here are expected to know enough about their clients to know that they are financially able to complete any contracts of purchase and sale that they may enter into. On closing day if a purchaser is unable to come through with the funds, that purchaser's realtor takes some heat and will most likely develop a reputation of non professionalism. Not a good situation.
Opinion only, based on various life experiences and having been a practising realtor in Ontario for a time.

Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home
A relative, who asked not to be identified, said a real estate agent, preparing for an open house, had discovered the two bodies in the large home's basement Friday morning.
-.-.-
She said that she last saw them two weeks ago, when they had an open house – and could not imagine anything like this happening to a pair she described as the "best neighbours" and the pride of the neighbourhood.

I remember somebody saying, during an open house the owners mostly wouldn't stay in the home. So, if the realtor already was preparing the (another) open house, then HS/BS perhaps indeed had a rental home for a short time span between "open house" and vacation in FL? I don't know, but it doesn't seem outlandish.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Murdered Canadian Billionaire's Children Fight for Answers

Mr. Greenspan made several public overtures to Toronto police to share his team’s findings. On Jan. 24, the lead investigator for the Toronto Police Department operation, Detective Sgt. Susan Gomes, met with Dr. Chiasson.

“Two days later, Ms. Gomes told a packed room of reporters at police headquarters that the killings weren’t a double suicide or a murder-suicide. The couple had, in fact, been strangled by one or more perpetrators.”

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Real estate agent discovers dead Toronto billionaires while showing house
There were no signs of forced entry, the Wall Street Journal reported, but police said the lockbox used by real estate agents to enter the home was a possible vulnerability.

Toronto police investigators are now chasing 580 leads.

 

[deugirtni]

Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home
A relative, who asked not to be identified, said a real estate agent, preparing for an open house, had discovered the two bodies in the large home's basement Friday morning.
-.-.-
She said that she last saw them two weeks ago, when they had an open house – and could not imagine anything like this happening to a pair she described as the "best neighbours" and the pride of the neighbourhood.

I remember somebody saying, during an open house the owners mostly wouldn't stay in the home. So, if the realtor already was preparing the (another) open house, then HS/BS perhaps indeed had a rental home for a short time span between "open house" and vacation in FL? I don't know, but it doesn't seem outlandish.

I'm not sure which part of your quotes above are giving you the information that the Sherman couple had an interim home? I know that most people leave the home during the times when a property is being 'shown' to a prospective buyer, and during 'open houses', however that is only for a matter of an hour or three.

 

[MistyWaters]

Apropos:
Wouldn't you (the one, who arrives first) deactivate the whole system, as soon as you enter your own home? Why didn't Honey do that, if she was the first person? Why didn't Barry do that? Why "a jacket over head" and so on?? Because they both were "guests" in their own home, afterwards (after what exactly?) going to their "transitional home"?? Therefore also not undressing their outdoor clothes, because they were only "visitors" for a certain time?

Neither am I familiar with any type of home security system whereby individual cameras can be turned on and off. As you say, only the type with a central control panel and cameras strategically placed in obscure, high up places.

If such a in-your-face camera existed, I have my doubts that Barry Sherman was responsible for placing it there. What would be the point of a security camera that’s accessable to the unscrupulous, that can be turned off at their perogative?

 

[MistyWaters]

Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home
A relative, who asked not to be identified, said a real estate agent, preparing for an open house, had discovered the two bodies in the large home's basement Friday morning.
-.-.-
She said that she last saw them two weeks ago, when they had an open house – and could not imagine anything like this happening to a pair she described as the "best neighbours" and the pride of the neighbourhood.

I remember somebody saying, during an open house the owners mostly wouldn't stay in the home. So, if the realtor already was preparing the (another) open house, then HS/BS perhaps indeed had a rental home for a short time span between "open house" and vacation in FL? I don't know, but it doesn't seem outlandish.

From the link in your post
“...Looking forward to getting together in Florida. I am coming south Monday, December 18 - Friday, January 12," Mrs. Sherman wrote in the email. "Barry is coming south for Monday December 25 & going home with me Jan. 12. Please let me know your dates south asap so i can place in my calendar... Looking forward to hearing back asap. Xoxo Honey"..”

I can imagine a scenario where Shermans contacted their realtor near the end of Nov with the original intent of listing their home after movers relocated them to their condo while they were away over Christmas. And for at least one of a number of possibilities, instead they decided to list immediately. For example the market was softening, prices dropping, a shortage of similar homes presently on the market, awareness of potential buyers etc are various reasons why realtors might advise to list sooner than later.

 

[dotr]

Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home
A relative, who asked not to be identified, said a real estate agent, preparing for an open house, had discovered the two bodies in the large home's basement Friday morning.
-.-.-
She said that she last saw them two weeks ago, when they had an open house – and could not imagine anything like this happening to a pair she described as the "best neighbours" and the pride of the neighbourhood.

I remember somebody saying, during an open house the owners mostly wouldn't stay in the home. So, if the realtor already was preparing the (another) open house, then HS/BS perhaps indeed had a rental home for a short time span between "open house" and vacation in FL? I don't know, but it doesn't seem outlandish.

This the post where the " interim" housing was first mentioned, iirc...
ETA thinking they meant " Foresthill"
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1
"Friends say the couple was having a new home built closer to downtown Toronto.Very chaotic so they purchased a home last year in Forest Ridge,18 days ago they put their residence since 1985 for sale and in addition they are building a new home near downtown Toronto"
Also this link posted by Matou including video
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1
" Neighbours interviewed by CP24 reporters stated that the couple was moving into a condo."

@3:10 in the video at link https://www.cp24.com/news/pharma-gi...-barry-and-honey-sherman-found-dead-1.3723714

 

[JDG]

I'm not sure which part of your quotes above are giving you the information that the Sherman couple had an interim home? I know that most people leave the home during the times when a property is being 'shown' to a prospective buyer, and during 'open houses', however that is only for a matter of an hour or three.

I don't the Shermans needed another home at that point. As stated, you just leave briefly for showings. Honey could have popped over to her daughters for a visit, out for a coffee or errands etc. They lived close to numerous malls, even window shopping or walking in the mall would pass the time. That's what I would do if I couldn't meet family/friends for coffee.

 

[Sanz]

There was a car stealing ring in Toronto for a time where a thief would slip into a house and remove the car keys ( often left in obvious place like a hook near the door ect) and have the key copied before they slipped the key back to its spot.
Later, perhaps much later, the car would be stolen and parked elsewhere, if nobody notices the watched stolen car, it would then get picked up from the new parking space and apparently driven off to a shipping container and sent to other countries.

If that could be done with car keys, house keys could be stolen that way too and used at another time.
Unless somebody had been hiding in the house for awhile......egads!
Although in this situation, as has been previously noted, the house keys could have somehow been taken from the real estate " lock box".
Speculation, imo.

In my personal experience selling 2 of my homes in Seattle, Washington, there were no keys in a Realtor lockbox. The lockbox was activated by a computerized keycard that showed the Realtor name and persons who were entering the house the time they entered and the time they left. The keycard was then deactivated. I assumed all Realtors used these type of systems.

 

[deugirtni]

This the post where the " interim" housing was first mentioned, iirc...
ETA thinking they meant " Foresthill"
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1
"Friends say the couple was having a new home built closer to downtown Toronto.Very chaotic so they purchased a home last year in Forest Ridge,18 days ago they put their residence since 1985 for sale and in addition they are building a new home near downtown Toronto"
Also this link posted by Matou including video
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1
" Neighbours interviewed by CP24 reporters stated that the couple was moving into a condo."

@3:10 in the video at link https://www.cp24.com/news/pharma-gi...-barry-and-honey-sherman-found-dead-1.3723714

Okay thank you for that link dotr. So the reporter said that 2 of the Sherman neighbours had mentioned that the couple were to move into a condo.. so we are left with not really knowing whether the neighbours actually knew this info, or they were just repeating rumor, or they got the info they *did* have, mixed up, or whatever.

It seems like that news article quoted is messed up, in that it speaks of having purchased a home in 'Forest Ridge' (which I don't believe we have heard anything about at all and was, as dotr mentioned, likely an error to mean 'Forest Hill'?), while at same time, saying the couple were building a new home closer to downtown.

From that quoted piece, I am wondering if whomever gave media that information, was confused and actually speaking of the same property without realizing it - ie perhaps knowing the couple was building a new home closer to downtown, AND also knowing the couple had already purchased a property in Forest Hill, but not realizing that both of those descriptions were in fact the same property - that being the one they had already purchased in Forest Hill and had also already starting to build on?

When they bought the new property it had a house on it, and sometimes when people hear that someone is building, they might *assume* that it is taking place on an empty building lot, as opposed to on a lot where a home already exists?

Also that news does not mention 'condo', so personally I am wondering on the validity of any of that talk of moving into an interim place. There was no need, why have 3 places? There would only be a need in the event their current home sold and closed prior to their new home being completed. I can imagine that Honey, perhaps in talking to various neighbours within the past few weeks, may have mentioned that if the current home ended up selling first, they would simply get a condo. Etc...

In any case it wasn't said that the couple HAD already moved anywhere else, including to a condo. Secondly, Gomes during her press conference, I believe said that TPS had searched 2 residences, those being obviously the one in which they were found dead, and the other being the property the couple owned in Florida.

The timing of the killings does seem incredibly coincidental - having only put their home for sale 2.5 weeks prior, and also planning to leave their home for a month in only a few days. For someone with a serious axe to grind, who may have had a very good idea of the layout of the house and all of its rooms, etc. (they were posted online I believe?), that may have meant a rather narrow window of opportunity.

All jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

In my personal experience selling 2 of my homes in Seattle, Washington, there were no keys in a Realtor lockbox. The lockbox was activated by a computerized keycard that showed the Realtor name and persons who were entering the house the time they entered and the time they left. The keycard was then deactivated. I assumed all Realtors used these type of systems.

Thanks for that, I wonder if that is indeed how realtors in Toronto are now doing the lockbox thing.. that's a great idea. If that were the case, then I think it would have to be at least looked at, as to whether a realtor could have/would have given out their card to a friend who may have had great interest in viewing the home... or otherwise had their card stolen or something? But I believe I read at some point that the Sherman's realtor had to be present for all showings? That may have been an agreement made between realtor and client. (I am thinking of the article which stated that the actual selling realtor was away in Florida at the time, and had left her associate in charge of attending viewings - it was surrounding who actually made the discovery of the bodies, and subsequent phonecall to 911).

 

[deugirtni]

Neither am I familiar with any type of home security system whereby individual cameras can be turned on and off. As you say, only the type with a central control panel and cameras strategically placed in obscure, high up places.

If such a in-your-face camera existed, I have my doubts that Barry Sherman was responsible for placing it there. What would be the point of a security camera that’s accessable to the unscrupulous, that can be turned off at their perogative?

The cameras - no matter the size - would have to have some kind of a 'box' (sorry for my non-technological lingo) located somewhere, which would control all of the cameras and tell the info where to go, etc., wouldn't they? ie the thing you are calling a 'central control panel'? So if you had been suggesting in a previous post that a tiny camera could have been placed there by a potential home-buyer being shown the home by a realtor without being seen, perhaps you are speaking more of a 'nanny-cam' type of thing? But my understanding is that *those* types have to be super short-ranged? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of these things could pitch in here to tell us what is possible in regard to the whole security camera issue?

 

[deugirtni]

It has been said that police and certain other people believe that BS killed his wife and then himself, while trying to make it look like a double suicide, so as to not tarnish his family's name, reputation, etc.

It has also been said that if the killings were a professional hit, then there was no reason for staging anything, and further, that it couldn't have been a pro hit since HS's face got messed up a bit, which would have been unnecessary, etc.

So what if it was 'just a murder', a very personal one, which *attempted* to make it *appear* to be a professional hit (major fail)? Perhaps there was a fear that to have been 'just a murder' would have given away the perp's identity, so tried to make it seem to be a pro hit that could have been ordered by any number of possible haters. Made such a mess of it that police got the impression instead, that it was a murder suicide.

Admittedly I haven't thought this through, but is that a possibility? Just sheer luck that police (from the POV of the murderer), knowing it was staged, got it wrong as to which way it had been attempted to have been staged?

 

[Sanz]

The cameras - no matter the size - would have to have some kind of a 'box' (sorry for my non-technological lingo) located somewhere, which would control all of the cameras and tell the info where to go, etc., wouldn't they? ie the thing you are calling a 'central control panel'? So if you had been suggesting in a previous post that a tiny camera could have been placed there by a potential home-buyer being shown the home by a realtor without being seen, perhaps you are speaking more of a 'nanny-cam' type of thing? But my understanding is that *those* types have to be super short-ranged? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of these things could pitch in here to tell us what is possible in regard to the whole security camera issue?

The security systems that have been installed in my homes are monitored by a security company. My control panels are near each outside door. They are operated by a Bluetooth to the security company not a phone line for security purposes. Once the security company installs the system including the cameras I can not change anything. I can not override the system or attempt to cover a camera or disarm a camera. The security company controls everything. I can disarm and arm the system.
***However I do have a Bluetooth key fob that will arm or disarm the system that I keep on my key ring.***