Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8
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Imho, gone are the days when one could just simply call up a realtor and ask to view a home. Most don't just hang out waiting for the phone to ring from unvetted strangers wanting to view 7 million dollar homes, unless they know that the effort can potentially result in a sale. Most realtors do nowadays require a contract before they will even bother (buyer representation agreemnt) showing a home. There is also financial vetting. Most people nowadays have preapproval for the mortgage they can qualify for, which, along with down payment information, is shared with the realtor who is going to be spending his/her time showing the home.
A home of that value would preclude many potential homebuyers from even looking, no matter how curious they might be or how much they might want to see a home, simply because it is out of their reach and a waste of the realtor's time.
Nothing is to say that false info can't be given, and it doesn't likely go as far as requiring ID to get a buyer agreement, but realtors also have their gut instinct for detecting time-wasters. Sometimes homeowners will require certain information on those who view their homes, and there are expectations that only those persons who actually have an interest and a means to potentially purchase the homes will be viewing them.
I am not speaking about 'open houses', since I don't have any information to say that an open house had been held, and personally, I can't imagine that this home and the Shermans would have offered one. However, even then, realtors are expected to obtain information on who viewed the home. There are some little articles regarding open houses here: Open house - RECO Website
Obviously the Sherman couple were still living in the home at the time when the home was for sale, although they *were* soon to be headed out of town for a few weeks. Realtors are expected to ensure potential buyers are not given opportunity to steal anything, ie they don't just stand at the door and send them off to wherever they want to go on their own, they are instead accompanied throughout the house.
It is possible that one of the potential buyers who was shown the home could have been viewing it for the express purpose of 'casing the joint', to see exactly where any cameras were, where exterior access points and certain rooms were located, etc. Perhaps not even for themselves, but to report to others. Hopefully TPS is having a close look at anyone who accessed the home in the time before the murders. jmo.
A home of that value would preclude many potential homebuyers from even looking, no matter how curious they might be or how much they might want to see a home, simply because it is out of their reach and a waste of the realtor's time.
Nothing is to say that false info can't be given, and it doesn't likely go as far as requiring ID to get a buyer agreement, but realtors also have their gut instinct for detecting time-wasters. Sometimes homeowners will require certain information on those who view their homes, and there are expectations that only those persons who actually have an interest and a means to potentially purchase the homes will be viewing them.
I am not speaking about 'open houses', since I don't have any information to say that an open house had been held, and personally, I can't imagine that this home and the Shermans would have offered one. However, even then, realtors are expected to obtain information on who viewed the home. There are some little articles regarding open houses here: Open house - RECO Website
Obviously the Sherman couple were still living in the home at the time when the home was for sale, although they *were* soon to be headed out of town for a few weeks. Realtors are expected to ensure potential buyers are not given opportunity to steal anything, ie they don't just stand at the door and send them off to wherever they want to go on their own, they are instead accompanied throughout the house.
It is possible that one of the potential buyers who was shown the home could have been viewing it for the express purpose of 'casing the joint', to see exactly where any cameras were, where exterior access points and certain rooms were located, etc. Perhaps not even for themselves, but to report to others. Hopefully TPS is having a close look at anyone who accessed the home in the time before the murders. jmo.
D
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I should add:
I read on here, that HS/BS had moved to a transitional home.
Exactly!
So why would they both go to the murder house on a cold winter’s night hours apart from each other?
Link?
D
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Don't know, how to search the forum, sorry. Only once mentioned by a poster, not via MSM.
I think they were still sleeping there but their lives were pretty full, so probably not home much and preparing to go to Florida in a few days.
Someone commented on the low quality of the bedding...wayyy upthread....and were surprised that they didn't have nicer bedding, esp with showings.
There was speculation that they were going to live in a condo while the other house was built but I didn't get the impression they had moved yet.
See my post above. There was a brief discussion about them living in a condo while the new house was being built, after returning from Florida.
MistyWaters
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“Preapprovals” (aka a preapproved mortgage to determine maximum mortgage amount based on qualified income) most often relate to first time home buyers.
No Canadian real estate company that I can find informs prospective home buyers that they must prove themselves financially worthy prior to viewing homes. Personally I’ve never been asked how I plan to pay for a home including last year when I was shopping. How the purchase gets paid for is between me and my real estate lawyer, after an offer to purchase is signed and accepted. If any realtor had insisted I provide a preapproved mortgage certificate I’d have dropped them faster than a hot potato because that would indicate to me I dealing with a brand new realtor who hadn’t yet figured out that lots of people have resources to buy homes without requiring a mortgage.
This conversation began due to my mention of the possibility that a viewing afforded the opportunity for the culprit/s to place a battery operated CCTV with audio inside Shermans home in order to stalk them, prior to a targeted double homicide taking place.
We don’t know how many times the home was shown, or how many different realtors showed it, or who viewed it, or if LE has been able to clear all parties from involvement. We’re really not certain of anything — which is why I’m keeping an open mind to the possibility this may have occured.
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MistyWaters
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I didn’t get the impression they’d moved out yet either. Maybe they were planning for movers to complete the move while they were both gone over the Christmas season, so as not to inconvenience them?
If so, with Honey soon leaving for Florida ahead of her husband, the time frame of opportunity for homicide was closing in. Security in a condo would be far greater. This is one of the reasons I think the perpetrator/s somehow had access to inside information and was aware of all their future plans and activities.
It seems like too many assumptions are being made, imho. It was merely theorized that IF the couple were to sell their home prior to their new home being completed, they would require an interim home.
There's no way a perp could install a CCTV system inside a home he was being shown by a realtor (unless the realtor was also in on it).
While many people might pay cash for a home and not require a mortgage, it goes the opposite way here, wherein one would more likely be working with a newbie realtor for the financial sitch NOT to be known ahead of spending time showing homes. The seasoned realtors don't have time to deal with purchasers who want to see this and that without having even vetted their financial ability. Realtors here are expected to know enough about their clients to know that they are financially able to complete any contracts of purchase and sale that they may enter into. On closing day if a purchaser is unable to come through with the funds, that purchaser's realtor takes some heat and will most likely develop a reputation of non professionalism. Not a good situation.
Opinion only, based on various life experiences and having been a practising realtor in Ontario for a time.
There's no way a perp could install a CCTV system inside a home he was being shown by a realtor (unless the realtor was also in on it).
While many people might pay cash for a home and not require a mortgage, it goes the opposite way here, wherein one would more likely be working with a newbie realtor for the financial sitch NOT to be known ahead of spending time showing homes. The seasoned realtors don't have time to deal with purchasers who want to see this and that without having even vetted their financial ability. Realtors here are expected to know enough about their clients to know that they are financially able to complete any contracts of purchase and sale that they may enter into. On closing day if a purchaser is unable to come through with the funds, that purchaser's realtor takes some heat and will most likely develop a reputation of non professionalism. Not a good situation.
Opinion only, based on various life experiences and having been a practising realtor in Ontario for a time.
MistyWaters
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Jan 26th
“......In answering a reporter’s question, she (Toronto Police Det.-Sgt. Susan Gomes) confirmed that “we have that list” of anyone who gained entry to the Old Colony Road home in North Toronto, which was for sale, via the lock box.
“Anybody who had access to that home in the last weeks and months leading up to that weekend, those days — important to us,” Gomes said.
The three-storey home, modest by billionaire standards, was first listed Nov. 27; the listing was removed Dec. 20, five days after the bodies of the Shermans were discovered...”
Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’
******
What other reasons might it be important for TPS to know everyone who accessed the home, not only via the real estate lockbox, but “in the last weeks and months”? This says to me TPS either suspects or has evidence that the perp/s had access by some means and for a specific reason prior to the double homicides being discovered.
“......In answering a reporter’s question, she (Toronto Police Det.-Sgt. Susan Gomes) confirmed that “we have that list” of anyone who gained entry to the Old Colony Road home in North Toronto, which was for sale, via the lock box.
“Anybody who had access to that home in the last weeks and months leading up to that weekend, those days — important to us,” Gomes said.
The three-storey home, modest by billionaire standards, was first listed Nov. 27; the listing was removed Dec. 20, five days after the bodies of the Shermans were discovered...”
Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’
******
What other reasons might it be important for TPS to know everyone who accessed the home, not only via the real estate lockbox, but “in the last weeks and months”? This says to me TPS either suspects or has evidence that the perp/s had access by some means and for a specific reason prior to the double homicides being discovered.
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There was a car stealing ring in Toronto for a time where a thief would slip into a house and remove the car keys ( often left in obvious place like a hook near the door ect) and have the key copied before they slipped the key back to its spot.
Later, perhaps much later, the car would be stolen and parked elsewhere, if nobody notices the watched stolen car, it would then get picked up from the new parking space and apparently driven off to a shipping container and sent to other countries.
If that could be done with car keys, house keys could be stolen that way too and used at another time.
Unless somebody had been hiding in the house for awhile......egads!
Although in this situation, as has been previously noted, the house keys could have somehow been taken from the real estate " lock box".
Speculation, imo.
Later, perhaps much later, the car would be stolen and parked elsewhere, if nobody notices the watched stolen car, it would then get picked up from the new parking space and apparently driven off to a shipping container and sent to other countries.
If that could be done with car keys, house keys could be stolen that way too and used at another time.
Unless somebody had been hiding in the house for awhile......egads!
Although in this situation, as has been previously noted, the house keys could have somehow been taken from the real estate " lock box".
Speculation, imo.
MistyWaters
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Have you googled any of the stickon battery operated security cameras with both video and audio capability and noticed how compact some of them are? It sure was an eye-opener for me.
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MistyWaters
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A “guide” is not a policy, it’s advice. I agree inquiring about ability to pay is a prudent practice for realtors to attempt to achieve.
Unfortunately it’s impossible for us to know if every MLS realtor who accessed the home presecreened each client who viewed it or if any documents were legitimate. For most of 2017 the Toronto market was smoking hot creating an extremely competive environment amongst realtors.
These were 2017's most shocking Toronto real estate stats
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MistyWaters
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“.....In December 2017, a real estate agent who was prepping the Shermans’ home for an open house found their dead bodies hanging from rails, side-by-side, next to the couple’s indoor swimming pool....”
Kids Of Dead Billionaire Barry Sherman And His Wife Try To Solve Bizarre Case
BBM
If I recall correctly, the report about the realtor showing the home on the Friday was provided by “sources”. So now this story is different, however it would make more sense why the cleaning and plant person were at the home at the same time. More of these > ??????
Kids Of Dead Billionaire Barry Sherman And His Wife Try To Solve Bizarre Case
BBM
If I recall correctly, the report about the realtor showing the home on the Friday was provided by “sources”. So now this story is different, however it would make more sense why the cleaning and plant person were at the home at the same time. More of these > ??????
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Radar Online is not MSM. Early MSM reports gave specifics of the realtor showing the potential buyers at the home that morning. IIRC, it was said that the cleaning and plant staff attended every Friday.
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