Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[Kerry Winter]

Various clips from mainstream media .... anyone else see the contradictions ???

................................................................................


“My reaction was total disbelief,” Jonathon Sherman said. “Anyone who knew our father would tell you the same thing. Our dad was a pacifist and would have trouble squashing a bug.”

“You were like a lock and key,” Jonathon Sherman said of his parents at the service, “each pretty useless on your own. But together, you unlocked the world for yourselves, and for us, and for so many others.”

Some of Mr. Sherman’s rivals, especially those who had been targets of his lawsuits, said in interviews that the Apotex founder was aggressive and vindictive in his legal attacks—once personally delivering a court order to a competitor’s office.

Mr. Sherman wasn’t afraid to challenge government regulators. When Canada’s health ministry tightened policies for new drug applications in 2015, Apotex’s law firm served lawsuits to some of the ministry’s staff at their homes.

In a subsequent meeting with senior government officials, Mr. Sherman became so agitated he started swearing, people familiar with the meeting said.

“He got really upset when people did stupid things,” Mr. Kay said

And, Jack Kay’s final comment at the end of this lame article: “I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened,”
***This makes me smile knowing J. Kay.

 

[MistyWaters]

Toronto life republished this lengthy article from July 2008 and it’s quite thought-provoking for many reasons. I’ve read it a few times in the past, each time I notice something new. It also indicates this interview shortly preceded the cousins losing round one of the lawsuits in Sept 2008.

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

Here and elsewhere, several articles suggest Shermans didn’t believe automatically bestowing wealth or encouraging a sense of entitlement was a wise or prudent thing to do. No surprise, throughout history there’s tons of examples about why not. I wonder if in their Last Will and Testament, he actually did follow through with “giving away much of his personal wealth”?.......his way of having control, even from beyond the grave?

********

“.......She (Honey) worries that the road for their children—three daughters and a son, ages 17 to 32—will be more difficult because of their wealth. “You have to work hard to instill in them a sense of reality.”.......

......At 66, Barry Sherman likes to boast that he’ll work another 40 years. But if he died suddenly—and there is a history of unexpected death in his family—he’d leave behind a huge fortune, as well as vast problems. Just in case, he’s thinking of strengthening management and considering his options—including the possibility of going public and giving away much of his personal wealth. He and Honey like to believe that Apotex will continue as an influential Canadian company for generations, whoever runs it......”

 

[MistyWaters]

And, Jack Kay’s final comment at the end of this lame article: “I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened,”
***This makes me smile knowing J. Kay.

Wow Kerry, for someone on the outs with Barry, you’ve managed to maintain a remarkable inside scoop including sources and information!

 

[deugirtni]

Wow Kerry, for someone on the outs with Barry, you’ve managed to maintain a remarkable inside scoop including sources and information!

Exactly. Somewhere just in the past couple of days I read an article that said the children of the deceased had a difficult time receiving information from police... even the fact that their parents were deceased?? But yet, here we have a person who has been publicly at war with the couple for at least a decade, being privy to allllll kinds of information which would only be known by TPS and pathologists. Given that potentially both KW and the immediate family members could and perhaps should have been initially viewed as potential POIs in this case, it is difficult to imagine that TPS would share evidentiary details.

In addition, as another member mentioned, time after time in various cases it has been shown at trial that MEs/pathologists can't and don't like to be held to specific TODs. But yet here we have a known enemy of the couple who had only days before the deaths received yet another blow from the judge in being ordered to pay a few hundred thousand dollars in court costs to the billionaire after already having lost lawsuits and appeals, receiving all this inside information to know where in the house HS was killed and that she was dead first before she was moved, that the murders were hours apart, and more. How does one become privy to such details when it is obvious police were keeping tight wraps on info surrounding the deaths?

Is this information that only TPS and the killer(s) would know?

 

[ldlager]

And, Jack Kay’s final comment at the end of this lame article: “I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened,”
***This makes me smile knowing J. Kay.

Ridiculous. You haven’t spoken to jack in years, and you know it. You don’t possibly know how this has changed his life.

 

[dotr]

Jack Kay, re post refresher.
Thousands attend service for Barry and Honey Sherman | CBC News
"Apotex president and COO Jack Kay, his voice breaking numerous times, reminisced about 35 years of both a business and personal relationship with Barry Sherman and his family. In 1982, Sherman interviewed Kay in Montreal for a vice-president's job at Apotex, and ended their conversation by saying: "Come move to Toronto and we will build this company and have a lot of fun and make a lot of money."

He noted Sherman's vast intellect, devotion to hard work and love of his family and friends.

"Barry was just a regular guy," Kay said. "He was kind of a teddy bear in real life, but with a mind like a steel trap and the stubbornness of a bull. He changed my life, and I'm so very grateful to have shared those years with him."

"CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found near the pool in the basement of their home. Investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home."

 

[human]

This is a puzzle. They had cameras facing the outdoors.

Perhaps none in the house. It seems like the pool ones were disabled. We do not know if it was for awhile or just that day.

So how did the killers get in with no indication of how they got in unseen.

I am sure plenty of neighbors had cameras and they would show cars in the area.

Any ideas on how this could be accomplished?

I only know from movies how signals are blocked. Does this happen in real life?

 

[dotr]

With this case in mind, just started a thread concerning a family in India where all 11 members were found deceased, 10 of them were hanged.
No sign of break in and LE are investigating whether this is a mass suicide or murder scene. No suicide note found. FWIW..
11 bodies, 10 of them hanging, found at New Delhi home 1 July 2018

 

[MistyWaters]

The leak of the audio recording came from a reliable source and has been buried. The article will arrive....patience. It won’t be a fluff piece like yesterday’s Wall Street Journal.

I believe KW once stated (wtte) that he believes a figure with a jacket held over his head walked towards the camera and moved it so the action wouldn't be filmed, but forgot to turn the audio off.

Very good.

.........
"CBC News has learned that the Shermans were found near the pool in the basement of their home. Investigators have found no security cameras inside or outside the home."

Well this just doesn’t jive.

Unless an illegal surveillance camera was planted inside the Sherman residence as a means of stalking them and the murder/s removed it upon their exit. Considering the home was listed for sale, anyone requesting a viewing had access inside the home. One realtor, 2 or 3 prospective buyers wandering about....realtor is focused on selling, not supervising.

Thanks Kerry, you’ve presented a possible theory about how anyone could’ve known the Sherman schedule, when they planned to be home alone, what days their service staff were going to be present, and so forth.

 

[hudunit]

If someone removed the camera how would there still be audio?I think this audio claim is a bit suspect.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is a puzzle. They had cameras facing the outdoors.

Perhaps none in the house. It seems like the pool ones were disabled. We do not know if it was for awhile or just that day.

So how did the killers get in with no indication of how they got in unseen.

I am sure plenty of neighbors had cameras and they would show cars in the area.

Any ideas on how this could be accomplished?

I only know from movies how signals are blocked. Does this happen in real life?

Assuming the murders occurred the night of Dec 13th, it would’ve been particularly dark that night and any outdoor security cameras likely wouldn’t have been successful in capturing clear images.

Why the darkness? The winter solstice was Dec 21, the greatest amount of darkness and the least daylight hours of any day of the year.

But even some of the longest nights are brighter than others, on or near a bright full moon on a clear night. However according to historical weather data, the full moon was back on Dec 3rd so the moon was but a small slice. In addition that night was overcast and possibly snowing lightly. Knowing security cameras would be prevalent in a high end neighbourhood, it would seem the perpetrator/s also sought out one of the darkest nights of the year.

Weather in December 2017 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

[hudunit]

I am sure the clients taken through the house were select and not .The police have probably already got their names and interviewed them.

 

[MistyWaters]

If someone removed the camera how would there still be audio?I think this audio claim is a bit suspect.

We’ve yet to learn from Kerry who is the “reliable source”. It’s certainly not going to be TPS who would leak a recording of death taking place. This is Canada where cameras aren’t even allowed in the courtroom.

 

[human]

Assuming the murders occurred the night of Dec 13th, it would’ve been particularly dark that night and any outdoor security cameras likely wouldn’t have been successful in capturing clear images.

Why the darkness? The winter solstice was Dec 21, the greatest amount of darkness and the least daylight hours of any day of the year.

But even some of the longest nights are brighter than others, on or near a bright full moon on a clear night. However according to historical weather data, the full moon was back on Dec 3rd so the moon was but a small slice. In addition that night was overcast and possibly snowing lightly. Knowing security cameras would be prevalent in a high end neighbourhood, it would seem the perpetrator/s also sought out one of the darkest nights of the year.

Weather in December 2017 in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I don’t know where the wuote is, but it said there were cameras facing outside. The quote above says no caneras inside or outside.

The dark night is good info.

There are devices that read security codes. Could they have hidden in Honey’s car? Could they have read a code to get into the house?

We have no info on what data is out there from neighboring properties.

I would guess people in that area have good cameras, but who knows

 

[MistyWaters]

I am sure the clients taken through the house were select and not .The police have probably already got their names and interviewed them.

Not sure what you mean by . IMO the Sherman murderer/s were deceptive and conniving, whether a professional hit or not. Realtors provide a service in showing homes for sale but there is no legal stipulation that interested buyers are required to present identification and a resume in order to qualify for a showing.

LE did state the Shermans were “targeted” which indicates the element of preplanning and preparation. And the opportunity to preview the home in advance was there.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don’t know where the wuote is, but it said there were cameras facing outside. The quote above says no caneras inside or outside.

The dark night is good info.

There are devices that read security codes. Could they have hidden in Honey’s car? Could they have read a code to get into the house?

We have no info on what data is out there from neighboring properties.

I would guess people in that area have good cameras, but who knows

So much we just don’t know because LE isn’t sharing. However that no blurry “help us find” images have been released can also be a positive indicator they have a suspect in mind. And are in the process of collaborating additional supporting evidence because on its own, a CCTV image of someone in the immediate area does not prove murder.

I’m not so sure the Shermans had a home security system or if it was always turned on, considering the home was listed for sale and cleaning staff, plant watering people coming by, etc. The more people whom codes are shared with, the less secure it becomes.

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
April 5 2018
The Sherman murder investigation by the numbers
"$4.6 billion: The Shermans’ estimated net worth, though it’s likely higher

6,500: Attendees at the Shermans’ funeral

51: Officers working the case

6: How many weeks police spent searching the Shermans’ primary residence, a three-storey home at 50 Old Colony Rd.

150: Bulk or packaged items seized that are “currently being reviewed and forensically analyzed”

240: People interviewed or identified to be interviewed

474: Investigative actions related to the homicides that “have been assigned and are being vigorously pursued”

20: Judicial authorizations and searches either obtained or executed by police

4: Terabytes worth of commercial and residential security camera footage gathered during a community canvas


500: Approximate hours of footage per terabyte"

 

[dotr]

Not necessarily a likely scenario, but a possible one..
Video cameras focused on the inside ( through the many glass windows and skylights) and outside of the Sherman house.
For that matter it is possible for cameras to be placed surreptitiously in the house and later removed.
Even the company headquarters could be monitored for B&HS's (and everyone else's) comings and goings.
If recordings of any type were made they could have been live-streamed to whomever may have ordered a hit, perhaps providing pleasure, proof, profit or all three.

Had anyone noticed drone activity in the neighbourhood ?
imo, complete speculation.

 

[casesensitive]

Not sure what you mean by . ( snipped by me).... Realtors provide a service in showing homes for sale but there is no legal stipulation that interested buyers are required to present identification and a resume in order to qualify for a showing.

Expensive homes like the Shermans' are usually shown by appointment only. Realtors don't provide open houses for the public. They also require proof that the interested buyers can actually afford the property, so as not to waste their time, and to weed out looky-loos (just looking folks). Unless a buyer used false id and doctored documents, LE has their names and planned on interviewing all them.

 

[MistyWaters]

Expensive homes like the Shermans' are usually shown by appointment only. Realtors don't provide open houses for the public. They also require proof that the interested buyers can actually afford the property, so as not to waste their time, and to weed out looky-loos (just looking folks). Unless a buyer used false id and doctored documents, LE has their names and planned on interviewing all them.

LE have never stated they’ve cleared anyone, let alone those who previewed the Sherman home so I don’t think we can make the assumption they’ve done so.

It was also widely known during the peak of Toronto’s real estate market many wealthy buyers of high end homes were international, not local. Someone posing with fake foreign ID often has a tendency to pass scrutiny because of its unfamiliarity.

I agree, high end homes are shown by appointment only and open houses are unlikely to be held. IMO an appointment only suggests the realtor and the client have communicated in some manner, in person, by phone or by email and then an agreement is reached to meet together at the property at a certain time. Rarely do they travel together.

Pre-screening, requiring financial information, I think is seperate matter especially when a prospective buyer presents his or herself as interested in a cash sale. I’m quite certain realtors in Canada don’t have the legal right to verify banking records let alone foreign assets as a requirement of interested parties who request to view homes, mainly because they’re not required to “pay in full” for the property the day they view, even if they do make to an offer to purchase. Proceeds often come from various different sources (including from drug sales/money laundering, unfortunately)