Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[Chelly]

As l clearly stated on The Fifth Estate and much of what l said never aired....Barry hated Honey. He was very unhappy in their marriage and often called her “mean spirited”. Barry also had a very brutal quick temper....he could turn on a dime. I also believe he had dementia....how far along l don’t know. Did Honey provoke him as l had witnessed on several occasions....possibly.
Barry may have lost it and hit Honey...not meaning to kill her. After he killed her, there was a few hours to think quick/straight and set up the scene of a double suicide....l believe l know who helped Barry orchestrate the diversion from murder suicide to double suicide.

You are saying Barry had an assistant in this murder suicide who still lives and you know who this person is?

 

[ldlager]

You are saying Barry had an assistant in this murder suicide who still lives and you know who this person is?

Still waiting for the audio recording of Barry murdering honey. And the article from a high profile US publication exposing the truth. Now there is an accomplice. Right.

 

[MistyWaters]

“......“I don’t think Honey was ever in what could be called good health from the time I met her. And yet, between multiple back, hip, and shoulder surgeries for her crippling arthritis, to recently surviving throat cancer, Honey was the most fun-loving, energetic, and uncomplaining person I ever met,” Frum said....”
Two legacies, one dark mystery: Toronto elite reeling after violent deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman

*****
If Barry Sherman truly hated his wife enough to murder, I’d think her various prior medical conditions would’ve given him multiple opportunities to stage a clean and simple overdose, given he was in the drug business.

And considering the above, I’d say this is a far cry from a description of a wife burdened within a long term unhappy marriage.

@ Kerry Winter. As much as I appreciate your sharing of your opinion, given it seems you had no personal interaction with the Shermans for almost 2o years (aside from legal proceedings) and iirc never were in their home, I’m wondering how you can feel so very confident that you know exactly how they both died? I don’t quite understand that.

 

[andreww]

Kerry, if Barry wanted Honey dead, there were a lot of simpler ways for him to have arranged it, as you well know. With his connections and money he would have likely gotten away with it. (Drugs, accident, drowning)

If Barry wanted Honey dead, he would be free of her, and would have no reason to kill himself.

Are you aware of any motive for Barry wanting to die? Was he despondent, seriously ill, in financial difficulty, frustrated or reclusive? Was he known to have episodes of violent physical rage? We know outwardly he appeared motivated and involved with his career and business.

As far as I know he did not display any suicidal tendencies.

Who the heck ever said he wanted her dead??? Nobody has ever said that. This was not a premeditated murder.

 

[andreww]

Kerry, if Barry wanted Honey dead, there were a lot of simpler ways for him to have arranged it, as you well know. With his connections and money he would have likely gotten away with it. (Drugs, accident, drowning)

If Barry wanted Honey dead, he would be free of her, and would have no reason to kill himself.

Are you aware of any motive for Barry wanting to die? Was he despondent, seriously ill, in financial difficulty, frustrated or reclusive? Was he known to have episodes of violent physical rage? We know outwardly he appeared motivated and involved with his career and business.

As far as I know he did not display any suicidal tendencies.

Kerry never said his cousin wanted Honey dead. It happened, but it wasn't planned.

 

[WINDSOR]

Kerry never said his cousin wanted Honey dead. It happened, but it wasn't planned.

Kerry had said, Barry asked him to arrange a 'hit' on Honey.

 

[MistyWaters]

Who the heck ever said he wanted her dead??? Nobody has ever said that. This was not a premeditated murder.

Kerry never said his cousin wanted Honey dead. It happened, but it wasn't planned.

If Honey Sherman had died by say, a blow to the head, had she been struck, then fallen and hit her head on something then yes, it’s possible a sudden domestic violent incident happened.

But that can’t be what occured. Her cause of death was ligature neck compression, the same as her husband. There are also indications that her wrists might’ve been bound. That seems a very deliberate means to murder someone.

 

[andreww]

If Honey Sherman had died by say, a blow to the head, had she been struck, then fallen and hit her head on something then yes, it’s possible a sudden domestic violent incident happened.

But that can’t be what occured. Her cause of death was ligature neck compression, the same as her husband. There are also indications that her wrists might’ve been bound. That seems a very deliberate means to murder someone.

All I'm saying is that this was most like a case of a guy that lost his temper and strangled his wife. I don't think he woke up that morning thinking he was going to kill her.

As for wrists being bound? We never heard anything about that until the family hired team took a second look did we? If there was any meaningful evidence of restraint on Barry's wrists, why would police have investigated this as a murder suicide for so long? So either the marks that the family coroner found were either very minimal, or they weren't there at all. As fo Honey, we do not know the extent of the wrist injuries. All I can say is that in cases of restraint that I've seen, the injuries are quite evident. So I don't believe that she was restrained other than Barry possibly holding her wrists during a struggle.

 

[Tortoise]

All I'm saying is that this was most like a case of a guy that lost his temper and strangled his wife. I don't think he woke up that morning thinking he was going to kill her.

As for wrists being bound? We never heard anything about that until the family hired team took a second look did we? If there was any meaningful evidence of restraint on Barry's wrists, why would police have investigated this as a murder suicide for so long? So either the marks that the family coroner found were either very minimal, or they weren't there at all. As fo Honey, we do not know the extent of the wrist injuries. All I can say is that in cases of restraint that I've seen, the injuries are quite evident. So I don't believe that she was restrained other than Barry possibly holding her wrists during a struggle.

I believe it was reported that they removed the skin on both Barry's and Honey's wrists for examination, and I don't think they would have done that if Barry's wrists had no marks to examine.

 

[MistyWaters]

All I'm saying is that this was most like a case of a guy that lost his temper and strangled his wife. I don't think he woke up that morning thinking he was going to kill her.

As for wrists being bound? We never heard anything about that until the family hired team took a second look did we? If there was any meaningful evidence of restraint on Barry's wrists, why would police have investigated this as a murder suicide for so long? So either the marks that the family coroner found were either very minimal, or they weren't there at all. As fo Honey, we do not know the extent of the wrist injuries. All I can say is that in cases of restraint that I've seen, the injuries are quite evident. So I don't believe that she was restrained other than Barry possibly holding her wrists during a struggle.

If you recall, the media publicized the possible murder/suicide theory immediately, prior to the autopsy being conducted. That’s reasonable if that’s how the deaths appeared at the time. Following that, TPS released no other information except that the deaths were being investigated as “suspicious”. Eventually the official press conference was held to announce the formal determination - a double homicide. There’s absolutely nothing unusual about that sequence of events and certainly nothing to indicate either the TPS or the Coroner reversed their official findings due to pressure by Greenspan’s team or the Sherman family.

IMO it’s a huge leap in assumption to think the Coroner didn’t notice restraint marks until Greenspan’s team conducted the second autopsy and pointed it out. Or that their deaths were ever only investigated as murder/suicide by TPS.

If “the proof” is because only Honey’s murder was noted on subpoenaes, that’s really not proof of anything more than indeed an investigation was taking place. If TPS has ruled an murder/suicide took place, why would they subpoena documents? And who’s records were being subpoenaed? We don’t know. If it were Honey’s then details of Barry’s death were totally irrelevant. If it were only Barry’s records, imo the court wouldn’t have approved the subpoenas without any reference to him. The absence of information on a subpoena does not support any facts whatsoever and it’s absolutely typical for LE to release virtually no details while an investigation is taking place.

To base opinions on vague information is like grasping at straws. TPS has formally ruled a targeted double homicide occurred so who are we to think we know more than they?

 

[andreww]

If you recall, the media publicized the possible murder/suicide theory immediately, prior to the autopsy being conducted. That’s reasonable if that’s how the deaths appeared at the time. Following that, TPS released no other information except that the deaths were being investigated as “suspicious”. Eventually the official press conference was held to announce the formal determination - a double homicide. There’s absolutely nothing unusual about that sequence of events and certainly nothing to indicate either the TPS or the Coroner reversed their official findings due to pressure by Greenspan’s team or the Sherman family.

IMO it’s a huge leap in assumption to think the Coroner didn’t notice restraint marks until Greenspan’s team conducted the second autopsy and pointed it out. Or that their deaths were ever only investigated as murder/suicide by TPS.

If “the proof” is because only Honey’s murder was noted on subpoenaes, that’s really not proof of anything more than indeed an investigation was taking place. If TPS has ruled an murder/suicide took place, why would they subpoena documents? And who’s records were being subpoenaed? We don’t know. If it were Honey’s then details of Barry’s death were totally irrelevant. If it were only Barry’s records, imo the court wouldn’t have approved the subpoenas without any reference to him. The absence of information on a subpoena does not support any facts whatsoever and it’s absolutely typical for LE to release virtually no details while an investigation is taking place.

To base opinions on vague information is like grasping at straws. TPS has formally ruled a targeted double homicide occurred so who are we to think we know more than they?

When I am shown even the smallest bit of evidence that would suggest that this was anything but a murder suicide, then I'll consider changing my mind. That area is surrounded with surveillance cameras, why have police not release images of suspect vehicles? No public plea for assistance. Seemingly no interest in Kerry who admitted dreaming about kicking Barry's head around a parking lot. Kerry, have they asked you back for a follow up interview? I don't think so. Has the family offered a reward? They have deep pockets and a million dollar reward would certainly get responses if that is what they are looking for. Seems to me like everyone involved is quite happy to let this thing die. Last thing either the family or LE want to do is stir up attention by offering rewards or pleading for information. This is the JBR scenario all over again.

I said on the day that the family announced they were hiring investigators, that this case was doomed and will never result to anything. Police know what happened, nobody else ever will.

 

[deugirtni]

“......“I don’t think Honey was ever in what could be called good health from the time I met her. And yet, between multiple back, hip, and shoulder surgeries for her crippling arthritis, to recently surviving throat cancer, Honey was the most fun-loving, energetic, and uncomplaining person I ever met,” Frum said....”
Two legacies, one dark mystery: Toronto elite reeling after violent deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman

*****
If Barry Sherman truly hated his wife enough to murder, I’d think her various prior medical conditions would’ve given him multiple opportunities to stage a clean and simple overdose, given he was in the drug business.

And considering the above, I’d say this is a far cry from a description of a wife burdened within a long term unhappy marriage.

@ Kerry Winter. As much as I appreciate your sharing of your opinion, given it seems you had no personal interaction with the Shermans for almost 2o years (aside from legal proceedings) and iirc never were in their home, I’m wondering how you can feel so very confident that you know exactly how they both died? I don’t quite understand that.

Good points. Especially if we are to believe that BS hated his wife for decades. If that were true, then I'm sure BS may have had daydreams about how he might do away with the irritation, and voila, doesn't he own a huge pharma biz? Could have so easily made it look like a suicide by overdose.
On the other hand, who was it that was quoted in MSM as saying nasty things about HS, and that he had been treated by her with hostility?
We've heard that HS was somewhat outspoken. She believed she was a 'trophy wife', and she was used to getting her way. My guess is that whoever came to kill the couple that night may have gotten some 'lip' from HS, which may have caused her assailant to lose it with her, and perhaps rough her up a bit before killing her. BS on the other hand, likely walked into an entirely different situation, with HS likely already dead and the killer just waiting to get the job done and get out of there.
---
The Fifth Estate
The Mystery of the Sherman Murders
February 2, 2018
Youtube:

(transcribed by deugirtni)
--
15:56 Announcer: But Kerry Winters says Honey Sherman was not enthusiastic about her husband's renewed relationship with his cousins. He says she had some tough questions for him at the house one day.
16:08 KW: And I didn't understand her line of questions, 'what do you want with my husband', or 'how much money is he giving you', and she started to berate me, and I remember going, uh, leaving that day, thinking something was amiss.
16:21 Announcer: It all raised an obvious issue. Why was Barry Sherman being so generous with his cousins? Kerry wondered if there might be an ulterior motive.
16:29 KW: When I look back on it, as wired as I was on drugs, why would a billionaire continue to give me millions and millions of dollars when I never showed a profit? It wasn't like I was building custom homes and selling them and making money. I was losing money, losing money, and he would increase the line of credit at the Bank of Montreal and he always made me sign promissory notes. So financially, this idea that Barry Sherman was *giving* me money, was not the truth. He, I was uh, beholden to him, I was under his thumb.
.....
21:22 Announcer: It was that history between them which led Kerry Winter to make an unbelievable assertion. He says despite the Toronto Police ruling that the Sherman deaths were a double homicide, there's a decades-old reason why he believes Barry Sherman killed his wife. He maintained Sherman had tried to do it before. And another amazing claim - Kerry said Barry had asked him to help.
21:47 KW: And there was a time in his office that he turned to me and he said, 'Kerry I want you to do me a favour.' And I said, 'what's that Barry?' He said, 'I want you to whack my wife.' And I said, 'C'mon Barry, you want me to kill your wife?' And he goes, 'I didn't say *you*. You know some people. Could you arrange that for me?' And I said, 'You're serious? You're asking me to arrange whacking your wife?' And he said, 'Yeah. I hate her.' And I said, 'Barry, I'll go ahead and do that. And I did. I planned it and I set it up.'
22:19 Announcer: Did you think, 'perhaps I should warn Honey? Perhaps I should.. '
22:23 KW: No, I hated her too.
22:24 Announcer: '.. call the police?'
22:24 KW: No, I didn't like Honey. In fact at the time, as twisted as I was, I relished in the idea. And I looked at it like I was helping my cousin. I couldn't say no.
22:36 Announcer: What do you believe members of the family and their legal representatives will say about this?
22:40 KW: I think they would say that he's possibly lying, he's trying to drag Barry's good name through the mud, he's got a hidden agenda, umm, he's got a vendetta, he's being spiteful, vengeful, umm..
22:56 Announcer: Are, are any or all of those things true?
22:59 KW: Well there's no doubt in my mind that I have a level of hatred.

 

[deugirtni]

When I am shown even the smallest bit of evidence that would suggest that this was anything but a murder suicide, then I'll consider changing my mind. That area is surrounded with surveillance cameras, why have police not release images of suspect vehicles? No public plea for assistance. Seemingly no interest in Kerry who admitted dreaming about kicking Barry's head around a parking lot. Kerry, have they asked you back for a follow up interview? I don't think so. Has the family offered a reward? They have deep pockets and a million dollar reward would certainly get responses if that is what they are looking for. Seems to me like everyone involved is quite happy to let this thing die. Last thing either the family or LE want to do is stir up attention by offering rewards or pleading for information. This is the JBR scenario all over again.

I said on the day that the family announced they were hiring investigators, that this case was doomed and will never result to anything. Police know what happened, nobody else ever will.

In light of many cases which have come under the light in recent past, I do not share your confidence that the TPS know what happened. jmo.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Kerry, if Barry wanted Honey dead, there were a lot of simpler ways for him to have arranged it, as you well know. With his connections and money he would have likely gotten away with it. (Drugs, accident, drowning)

If Barry wanted Honey dead, he would be free of her, and would have no reason to kill himself.

Are you aware of any motive for Barry wanting to die? Was he despondent, seriously ill, in financial difficulty, frustrated or reclusive? Was he known to have episodes of violent physical rage? We know outwardly he appeared motivated and involved with his career and business.

As far as I know he did not display any suicidal tendencies.

I don’t believe my cousin planed to kill Honey....in my opinion, he simply lost control and with sudden rage strangled the life out of her.
Coming from Barry and Honey’s personal trainer, “Barry was unbelievably strong”!

 

[Kerry Winter]

I dont think he intended to kill her but lost it in an angry fit.To cover this up he tried to stage a double suicide.

YES!!!!!

 

[Kerry Winter]

rbbm
Without naming names, might it be someone who is generally accustomed to staging?
Any reason beyond financial ones, that would be incentive for a person to help Barry, especially as that would also mean the end of Barry?

Many men, especially affluent ones imo, seem to have no problem ditching a wife they no longer fancy, especially if they have a replacement romantic interest on standby.
Why did BS stick around for HS if he "hated her", unless he had a " silent" partner of some variety who did not mind lingering in the shadows?
speculation, imo.

I can assure you Barry had NO interest in sex...and simply couldn’t stomach the idea of Honey getting half his money in a divorce.

 

[Kerry Winter]

I cautiously endorse parts of what you are saying ...... based on my reading Barry's so-called autobiography , plus other comments from others who knew him.

Barry was a self described devout atheist , live for today , this is all there is - he said , nothing else matters , he did not have "feelings" or "care for others" or a "guilty conscience" like a normal person would , he said he was ruthless in business because that is what it took to win .

Often these are the attributes of a sociopath ..... and study will show not all sociopaths are serial killers ..... many of them are very successful and wealthy businessmen , to them humans and human feelings are meaningless and you can trample them underfoot if necessary.

So it is not a long stretch of the imagination for him to be both wealthy and a suspected killer

Well said. I told a reporter back in 2008, just after l filed claim against my cousin and Apotex, that “if Barry hadn’t gotten into generics and become an entrepreneurial billionaire....he would have been a serial killer”. I stand by the comment today. Barry was a kook....runs in my family!

 

[Kerry Winter]

I get what you're saying.. don't they say that psychopaths make the best business/sales people? (or something along those lines). But BS was a man of.. 70 or more, having been married to the woman he hates supposedly, for some 40 years. I could possibly consider this theory if it happened some 20-30 years ago, when he may have had a sideline, and his man-hormones were likely a little more active. To go through his entire lifetime able to keep his lid on, with nobody becoming privy to his psycho tendencies to beat his nasty wife, and then finally do something about it at such a late date, just isn't cutting it.

Considering that KW and the Shermans had been at war for many years, how can KW say he has inside knowledge of marital discord, personality traits, relationship status, etc? The timing is interesting, in relation to recent judgement(s).

To be someone who is filled with hatred after having been supposedly a victim abused by these people over a lifetime, and to then see them meet with such a horrible, brutal fate, without having to even lift a finger - would this not prompt a feeling of private gloating and personal satisfaction to see firsthand that karma is a b!tch? Why would one have to go public to argue that the Toronto Police Service and I'm assuming the coroner as well, got it wrong? Either way, they met their supposed deserved fate, why care what the authorities want to label it as?

Disagree:
the wealthy Sherman family don’t have the right to rewrite history. If Barry killed Honey and hung himself....and that’s too hard to swallow....

I get what you're saying.. don't they say that psychopaths make the best business/sales people? (or something along those lines). But BS was a man of.. 70 or more, having been married to the woman he hates supposedly, for some 40 years. I could possibly consider this theory if it happened some 20-30 years ago, when he may have had a sideline, and his man-hormones were likely a little more active. To go through his entire lifetime able to keep his lid on, with nobody becoming privy to his psycho tendencies to beat his nasty wife, and then finally do something about it at such a late date, just isn't cutting it.

Considering that KW and the Shermans had been at war for many years, how can KW say he has inside knowledge of marital discord, personality traits, relationship status, etc? The timing is interesting, in relation to recent judgement(s).

To be someone who is filled with hatred after having been supposedly a victim abused by these people over a lifetime, and to then see them meet with such a horrible, brutal fate, without having to even lift a finger - would this not prompt a feeling of private gloating and personal satisfaction to see firsthand that karma is a b!tch? Why would one have to go public to argue that the Toronto Police Service and I'm assuming the coroner as well, got it wrong? Either way, they met their supposed deserved fate, why care what the authorities want to label it as?

I disagree!
If Barry killed Honey and hung himself, the wealthy Sherman don’t get the right to rewrite history....even if it’s extremely hard to swallow.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Canadian tycoon Barry Sherman 'killed wife then himself' | Daily Mail Online
But for all the unknowns he has no doubt about one thing: Sherman was capable of murder and wasn't bound to his own life by anything that brought him joy.

Winter said: 'If Barry Sherman hadn't been an entrepreneur and a CEO he would have been a serial killer.'

I think, KW knows what he is talking about. He very much adored his cousin and had reason to hate him, all the same time. IMO

Thank-you.

 

[anonypotomous]

Oh my, I've been away from this thread for several months.. A lot has happened here!