Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[JDG]

Add coats??? they were wearing their coats, December, snowing.

 

[MistyWaters]

Okay, you're good up until that point, but why add the coats as a restraint? How does that scream suicide? And if your goal is to make it appear to be a suicide, why beat Honey to the point of bleeding? Your argument makes no sense.

The question for you is how do the winter coats scream M/S? It adds even greater complexity to body contortions required in a M/S scenario set up by a 75 year old man.

And if you can’t imagine even one reason why Honey’s body may have exhibited marks of violence at some point, after entrance of an intruder and her subsequent homicide caused by the same person, I don’t think any of my suggestions would be helpful.

 

[JDG]

.

 

[ldlager]

Not really sure what the original question was about? The pool railing was about four feet high, so Barry, on his knees, would tie the belt around his neck to the railing, then kick his legs straight forward. As his butt wouldn't hit the ground, this would be the only way to put his full weight on the noose. Plenty of people hang themselves from low objects like closet hanger rails or doorknobs.

As for the ligature neck compression, again Im not totally sure what the question is? My guess is that Barry strangled Honey with something, possibly his belt, then set up the scene by the pool. Another possible scenario, given that Honey had other injuries and was apparently found in a pool of blood, would be that she was beaten to unconsciousness, then dragged down and hung by the pool. Its impossible to even speculate without seeing the full autopsy and crime scene evidence though.

And lastly, the jackets. Not sure when it came out that they were winter coats, I seem to recall that they were light jackets. But whatever, Barry might have realized that as he was trying to hang himself, there was a tendency to reach up and grab the railing, releasing the tension on the belt. The jacket was likely a means to restrict his arms from interfering with the deed. As he needed one, he had to apply the same to Honey. Or, it may simply been part of the staging meant to confuse.

Not to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I recall that KW has written in the past that he believes Barry had someone assist him in completing the murder suicide.

 

[Satchie]

Not to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I recall that KW has written in the past that he believes Barry had someone assist him in completing the murder suicide.

!!
It's not remotely funny, but this suggested theory cracks me up. "Your honour, my client is no murderer. He just provided minor assistance so the real murderer could stage his crime and commit suicide in a manner that would look like double-homicide. He did this kindly, out of the goodness of his heart. It never occurred to my client that it might look as though he himself had committed the crimes."

 

[deugirtni]

Okay, you're good up until that point, but why add the coats as a restraint? How does that scream suicide? And if your goal is to make it appear to be a suicide, why beat Honey to the point of bleeding? Your argument makes no sense.

Who said the coats make it scream suicide? The coats are more like screaming 'murder', the couple were each separately ambushed upon entering the home before even taking off their coats. Double murder has been declared by police. The goal wasn't to make it appear to be suicide. That goal would only apply if one believed it was M/S - a theory which you seem to be pointing out, does not make sense. This seems instead, to scream a rather UNprofessional hit by someone with a very personal vendetta.

I don't even know why we're discussing 'if' it was a double homicide, when TPS have staked their reputations on stating it being exactly that. In any other thread if we were arguing with LE's public determinations, we'd be battered and trodden upon and burned at the stake for calling police incompetent, liars, cheats, frauds, etc. Yet in this case, it seems there is an entire conspiracy that not only police are corrupt, but also the current Coroner's Office of Ontario, independent private detectives and the retired head of the Coroner's Office, government officials and politicians, etc. - anyone can be bought. And all just for the sake of saving poor Barry's reputation AFTER his death, so it isn't tarnished?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The couple made numerous multimillion-dollar donations to hospitals, schools and charities and had buildings named in their honor.

Were Barry Sherman and wife Honey strangled in their home? | Daily Mail Online

 

[WINDSOR]

1) Barry, on his knees, fastens the belt around his neck and railing.
2) Puts on jacket
3) Kicks feet forward to put weight on the noose

Not sure what you find complicated about that?

Try it, I bet you cannot do it. (Of course have somebody standing by to rescue you if you are successful.)

Having your neck restricted by a belt attached to a railing and your neck, while kneeling and trying to put a winter coat for a aged man, is basically impossible. Heck I am not even 70 and putting on a heavy winter coat, while standing is a challenge.

 

[ABro]

Who said the coats make it scream suicide? The coats are more like screaming 'murder', the couple were each separately ambushed upon entering the home before even taking off their coats. Double murder has been declared by police. The goal wasn't to make it appear to be suicide. That goal would only apply if one believed it was M/S - a theory which you seem to be pointing out, does not make sense. This seems instead, to scream a rather UNprofessional hit by someone with a very personal vendetta.

I don't even know why we're discussing 'if' it was a double homicide, when TPS have staked their reputations on stating it being exactly that. In any other thread if we were arguing with LE's public determinations, we'd be battered and trodden upon and burned at the stake for calling police incompetent, liars, cheats, frauds, etc. Yet in this case, it seems there is an entire conspiracy that not only police are corrupt, but also the current Coroner's Office of Ontario, independent private detectives and the retired head of the Coroner's Office, government officials and politicians, etc. - anyone can be bought. And all just for the sake of saving poor Barry's reputation AFTER his death, so it isn't tarnished?

The fact that TPS have said this is double murder isn’t nothing. One would assume they have something that led them to this conclusion.

<modsnip: personalizing>

 

[Sillybilly]

Our VI is speculating about murder-suicide, therefore we are allowing discussion of it being a possibility because it has been brought to the table by a verified insider who is also a family member. Bear in mind however ...

FACT:

LE has established that the Shermans were killed as a result of a targeted double murder. We have to trust there is reasonable evidence for them to have reached such a conclusion.

OPINION:

Our VI is a proponent of a murder-suicide theory/opinion. They are not required to provide links to support such a claim.

Regular members may consider what the VI claims but may NOT state murder-suicide as fact unless they can provide a link to substantiate such speculation. If regular members do not provide links, they must make it clear that it is their OPINION ONLY (MOO, JMO, IMO, I think, I believe, etc).

Websleuths does not allow discussion of conspiracy theories, therefore suggestions of a cover-up involving numerous agencies (LE, the coroner, etc) are not allowed. This applies to both VIs and regular members.

 

[deugirtni]

.
Interesting you should post this just now ..... I was composing a post on that very subject ..... as follows .........................................................................................

Apparently the new property for the new house was previously owned by a friend of Barry's who had built a (presumably smaller) house in order to downsize in his later years .... and I have read that Barry loved his friend's house .... and I have read that it had been demolished the day Barry and Honey and the architect visited the site and he was very unhappy to see it like that.

Could that have triggered an angry outburst ? Just a guess.

Can you please post links to the info you've shared in this post in regard to:

- the property being 'previously owned by a friend of Barry's', and that he 'loved his friend's house'?

- that 'it had been demolished the day Barry and Honey and the architect visited the site' (on which date was this home demolished?), and

- that Barry 'was very unhappy to see it like that'

I recall reading that the property purchased at 91 Old Forest Hill Rd had previously been owned by more a friend and colleague of Honey's. Honey's friend had died, followed by her elderly husband just months later. The property transferred to the estate/family, who subsequently sold privately to the Shermans, for price unknown.

"The property was once owned by another prominent couple in philanthropic circles and the Jewish community, the late Al and Malka Green. Honey and Malka were both directors at the Friends of Simon Wiesenthal Center for Holocaust Studies."

The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built | The Star

 

[JDG]

It's nothing new to commit suicide with a belt and a railing. Ryan Alexander Jenkins, a Canadian murder suspect, hanged himself from his neck by a belt in a motel in a British Columbia town called Hope.

Is it worthwhile to speculate that it was murder? Perhaps, but the simplest explanation is that he did it by himself: suicide.

The police have stated that it is a double murder.

 

[MistyWaters]

Latest update from only a couple of weeks ago, not comments from TPS but from the Judge’s ruling that warrants be sealed.

BBM

“Making public the inner workings of the Sherman investigation "poses a serious risk of compromising the police investigation," Pringle said.

As the judge who has signed off on all search warrants and production orders she said she is satisfied the probe is "active and ongoing … I can say that the police investigation appears to be extensive, meticulous and careful. Contrary to the applicant's concern that it has stalled, the investigation appears to be progressing at this time."...”
Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants

 

[JDG]

Agreed. Especially considering the monstrosity of it .....

Architectural drawings filed with the city reveal a 16,000-sq.-foot brick-and-stone home with a separate pool house, a 41-foot retractable skylight over a central swimming pool, an event room, an elevator and a space for live-in staff. Sherman’s need for privacy was reflected in the “large shredder” planned for an upstairs office.

The ambitious plans called for 15 variances in the building code, some sizable, including increasing the maximum building depth to 47.6 m from the allowable 19 m, and a car stacker in the three-car garage. All the variances were approved on June 28, less than six months before the murders.

Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

What does the size of the new build have to do with a double murder?
Sorry, I must be missing your point. The house sounds lovely and I presume Honey was looking towards her old age when she had an elevator and room for live in staff. Very sensible if you ask me.

Please remember, they were Billionaires. It was just a nice home to them.

 

[JDG]

.
It has been reported that the house they were currently living in cost $2.3 million back in 1991 ...... but then Barry sued the contractors for $2 million and won

Sounds like it only cost him $300,000 in the end.

I continue to search for the kinder/gentle side of Barry .

With all due respect, do you not think it cost a dime to correct all of these deficiencies??

Retrofitting and re-doing messes costs more, as previously stated by MistyWaters.

It may well have cost him double by the time everything was repaired and he sued.

 

[rogue ant]

Any update on when the bombshell article referenced by KW will be published?

 

[MistyWaters]

Any update on when the bombshell article referenced by KW will be published?

Not that I know of. The ink should be dry by now. Most bombshell articles don’t take weeks or months to get published.

 

[MistyWaters]

“Winter reflected: 'Either way he had a terrible end. He either killed his wife and hung himself or he was targeted and Honey was punched out in front of him and his last moments must have been horrific.' ..”
Canadian tycoon Barry Sherman 'killed wife then himself' | Daily Mail Online

Kerry, do you no longer consider the “or” a possiblity in this graphic comment made by you?

 

[andreww]

Add coats??? they were wearing their coats, December, snowing.

They were indoors. Who wears coats indoors??? If murderers wanted to make it look like suicide, why put coats on to retrain the arms?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Did we ever hear about a burning (or meanwhile cold) fire place in the home? Any ropes could have been burned there for example. Though I think, LE would have taken that into consideration.