Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[andreww]

I don't think the reaction of disbelief from family, friends, etc is about BS having committed suicide. The shocking suggestion is that he murdered Honey.

Well that goes hand in hand. The family did everything possible to make that suggestion go away.

 

[JDG]

To tell you the truth, I can't think of one person Barry's age that would want to increase his living space. At his age you think of downsizing, not expanding. I honestly believe that Barry really was against this. I believe the arguments had started prior to that day causing Honey to miss her meeting. I think she may have forced the meeting with the architect on Barry, cornering him in his office. I think he might have snapped and killed her that night. After assessing the situation he decided to take the easy way out, staging the scene and ending his life. Simple as that. Not sure what piece of evidence defies this theory, except for the mysterious writ marks that apparently nobody saw except the family's investigators, who could only have seen them in photos.

Can you please explain how Barry hung himself so neatly and in exactly the same position as Honey AFTER he had strangled himself??

How did he keep his legs out straight, same as hers after he had died??

Edit to add: I am not being snarky here, its a serious question.

 

[ldlager]

My apologies, then you’re referring to this.

• Why did police wait until a month after the Shermans died to view four days of CCTV footage seized from the Apotex head offices in December? The Star has discovered that when police copied the CCTV footage the weekend after the bodies were discovered they did not realize they could not view it due to a software security feature. Police eventually contacted Apotex and asked for a fresh copy of the file, according to a source with knowledge of the incident.

Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants | The Star

I don’t know, is that a matter of questionable investigation? Or is it about crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s involving collection of lesser priority items?

As we really know nothing about the course of the investigation, I don’t think it can be automatically assumed four days of CCTV from one single location is significant, especially if video was obtained from other locations much closer to the Sherman home and by then it was believed the perp/s route to the Sherman residence was unrelated to Apotex.

We just don’t know nor is TPS obliged to inform us considering the Court ruling against the Star is also on their side. That’s absolutely typical during the course of an investigation - the role of LE is not to satisfy the curiosity of the public. It’s to gather adequate evidence in order that charges can eventually be filed.

Agreed. But then again, what if LE went back to Apotex and the video was no longer available? Or what if the video showed a car following Barry or Honey as they pulled out of the parking lot? I think you would agree that the police were in no position to judge if the video was/is important or not until they actually viewed it.....!

 

[JDG]

The LEAD DETECTIVE is only working this case PART-TIME. This case is DEAD. If they had even a decent lead, you can bet your a$$ that Gomes would be putting in overtime on this.

AFAIK, all lead detectives are only working part time on ANY given case, as they have multiple cases to deal with on any given day.

They are often split into teams, each team deals with a different aspect, then they pull it all together or have meetings to brainstorm, etc. eventually getting enough evidence to take to the prosecution.

The lead detectives are responsible for the eventual presentation of evidence but they don't do all of the leg work required on their own.

 

[MistyWaters]

Agreed. But then again, what if LE went back to Apotex and the video was no longer available? Or what if the video showed a car following Barry or Honey as they pulled out of the parking lot? I think you would agree that the police were in no position to judge if the video was/is important or not until they actually viewed it.....!

That conclusion of mishandling could only be drawn only if, a month into the investigation LE had sat back and did nothing, was not in close contact with Apotex at all. Yet we do know within days LE had scrutinized the neighbourhood, seeking out people with home security cameras. If neither of the two were followed by a vehicle, then it’s unlikely four days of video of an Apotex parking lot would lead to who was present in their home.

And is pass card/security access to Apotex’s parking area required? I would think quite possibly, given the high risk nature of any drug manufacturing business. If so, the simplest explanation is LE was able to scrutinize pass card security data, a far less time consuming means of investigation rather than watching four days of video. That’s only an example of why watching the videos may not have been a high priority.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yikes: "whipped" is a very loaded word.

I think they had a very traditional marriage, consistent with their age and social milieu. A traditional marriage divides the world up, with the husband taking care of business and everything outside the home, and the wife taking care of social relationships and everything inside the home.

The wife stays loyal and supportive to his work: entertains his business colleagues, ensures his shirts and suits are clean, never questions his decisions or doubts his competence. Similiarly, the husband stays loyal and supportive to her role: supports her as mother to their children, shows up and smiles at social occassions, lets her build her dream house for their old age, without questioning her decisions or doubting her competence.

Barry was probably happiest and spent most of his time in his office, where he commanded his empire. He seems not to have had any hobbies or be a homebody.

Yes I agree, it seems to have been a very traditional marriage although what was at one time traditional is becoming more and more untraditional in this era of couples striving to reach 50/50 equalness.

Opposite to traditional is a husband committing murder because the wife was involved in decision making of their behalf, but did not create the wealth to enable it.

 

[ldlager]

That conclusion of mishandling could only be drawn only if, a month into the investigation LE had sat back and did nothing, was not in close contact with Apotex at all. Yet we do know within days LE had scrutinized the neighbourhood, seeking out people with home security cameras. If neither of the two were followed by a vehicle, then it’s unlikely four days of video of an Apotex parking lot would lead to who was present in their home.

And is pass card/security access to Apotex’s parking area required? I would think quite possibly, given the high risk nature of any drug manufacturing business. If so, the simplest explanation is LE was able to scrutinize pass card security data, a far less time consuming means of investigation rather than watching four days of video. That’s only an example of why watching the videos may not have been a high priority.

FYI, there is no pass card access required to the parking lot. Or through the front doors into reception. Further into the building, pass cards are required.
It is very possible a lookout for the killers was stationed outside apotex or on the street there. To potentially alert their partners in crime re timing of arrival at home, etc. I guess LE didn’t really care. After all in those days they assumed it was a murder suicide.....

 

[Arnie M]

It would be hard to strangle someone with a small piece of rope ..... because the rope is hard to hang on to to pull it tight ..... but giving it a couple of wraps around your hands or wrists would help a lot .....

THAT could possibly explain the marks on Barry's wrists ..... however that does not account for any marks that may have been on Honeys wrists .... unless he tied her up first .... which does not make much sense.

I have used that method many times to tighten ropes while tying down tarps or loads .
Just thinking out loud. Grasping at theories.

 

[human]

To tell you the truth, I can't think of one person Barry's age that would want to increase his living space. At his age you think of downsizing, not expanding. I honestly believe that Barry really was against this. I believe the arguments had started prior to that day causing Honey to miss her meeting. I think she may have forced the meeting with the architect on Barry, cornering him in his office. I think he might have snapped and killed her that night. After assessing the situation he decided to take the easy way out, staging the scene and ending his life. Simple as that. Not sure what piece of evidence defies this theory, except for the mysterious writ marks that apparently nobody saw except the family's investigators, who could only have seen them in photos.

Most people do not have multiple staff to clean,,etc.

 

[Arnie M]

To tell you the truth, I can't think of one person Barry's age that would want to increase his living space. At his age you think of downsizing, not expanding. I honestly believe that Barry really was against this. I believe the arguments had started prior to that day causing Honey to miss her meeting. I think she may have forced the meeting with the architect on Barry, cornering him in his office. I think he might have snapped and killed her that night. After assessing the situation he decided to take the easy way out, staging the scene and ending his life. Simple as that. Not sure what piece of evidence defies this theory, except for the mysterious writ marks that apparently nobody saw except the family's investigators, who could only have seen them in photos.

Agreed. Especially considering the monstrosity of it .....

Architectural drawings filed with the city reveal a 16,000-sq.-foot brick-and-stone home with a separate pool house, a 41-foot retractable skylight over a central swimming pool, an event room, an elevator and a space for live-in staff. Sherman’s need for privacy was reflected in the “large shredder” planned for an upstairs office.

The ambitious plans called for 15 variances in the building code, some sizable, including increasing the maximum building depth to 47.6 m from the allowable 19 m, and a car stacker in the three-car garage. All the variances were approved on June 28, less than six months before the murders.

Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

 

[Arnie M]

.
It has been reported that the house they were currently living in cost $2.3 million back in 1991 ...... but then Barry sued the contractors for $2 million and won

Sounds like it only cost him $300,000 in the end.

I continue to search for the kinder/gentle side of Barry .

 

[JDG]

I'm not sure I buy into this idea of 'downsizing'.

IMO, realtors want you to 'downsize' so that they can make commission and it seems that the buyers need more homes on the market but I don't know of anyone who sells their home and moves into, a condo lets say, unless its for health reasons or financial trouble.

If I had the kind of money the Shermans had, I wouldn't care AT ALL about downsizing.

Its not like Honey has to mop the floors and clean the loos.

When you 'have staff', you don't lift a finger, you just live in the home.

Also, in a Jewish household, the home is the showplace of the mans' success.

Its his job to be a great provider, throughout their years, not until the kids leave home.

Also, Honey had bought a previously owned home and the demolition had taken place, drawings were finished and the construction was about to start.....isnt that a bit late for objections from Barry?

It was a vis a vis 'done deal'.

 

[Arnie M]

I'm not sure I buy into this idea of 'downsizing'.

IMO, realtors want you to 'downsize' so that they can make commission and it seems that the buyers need more homes on the market but I don't know of anyone who sells their home and moves into, a condo lets say, unless its for health reasons or financial trouble.

If I had the kind of money the Shermans had, I wouldn't care AT ALL about downsizing.

Its not like Honey has to mop the floors and clean the loos.

When you 'have staff', you don't lift a finger, you just live in the home.

Also, in a Jewish household, the home is the showplace of the mans' success.

Its his job to be a great provider, throughout their years, not until the kids leave home.

Also, Honey had bought a previously owned home and the demolition had taken place, drawings were finished and the construction was about to start.....isnt that a bit late for objections from Barry?

It was a vis a vis 'done deal'.

.
Interesting you should post this just now ..... I was composing a post on that very subject ..... as follows .........................................................................................

Apparently the new property for the new house was previously owned by a friend of Barry's who had built a (presumably smaller) house in order to downsize in his later years .... and I have read that Barry loved his friend's house .... and I have read that it had been demolished the day Barry and Honey and the architect visited the site and he was very unhappy to see it like that.

Could that have triggered an angry outburst ? Just a guess.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well that goes hand in hand. The family did everything possible to make that suggestion go away.

Turns out they were very wise to immediately and publicly express their disagreement of M/S considering the staged deaths were later deemed a double homicide. They know their parents better than any of us here and had they not objected, I’d bet anything even KW would’ve pointed at one of them as a suspect. I get the sense the animosity toward the children is due to the fact they’ve welcomed the investigation that’s currently taking place, rather than it getting shut down.

 

[MistyWaters]

.
It has been reported that the house they were currently living in cost $2.3 million back in 1991 ...... but then Barry sued the contractors for $2 million and won

Sounds like it only cost him $300,000 in the end.

I continue to search for the kinder/gentle side of Barry .

Other contractors who repaired the shoddy workmanship did not work for free. The additional cost incurred by the homeowner to have the faulty work ripped out and rebuilt is always considered when damages are awarded for legal issues involving negligent contractors. Canadian courts do not award windfalls just because.

 

[MistyWaters]

Other contractors who repaired the shoddy workmanship did not work for free. The additional cost incurred by the homeowner to have the faulty work ripped out and rebuilt is always considered when damages are awarded for legal issues involving negligent contractors. Canadian courts do not award windfalls just because.

ETA: And it can cost almost twice as much for another contractor to repair the work of a shoddy one. That’s because the shoddy work must be removed before it can be properly rebuilt.

 

[human]

.
Interesting you should post this just now ..... I was composing a post on that very subject ..... as follows .........................................................................................

Apparently the new property for the new house was previously owned by a friend of Barry's who had built a (presumably smaller) house in order to downsize in his later years .... and I have read that Barry loved his friend's house .... and I have read that it had been demolished the day Barry and Honey and the architect visited the site and he was very unhappy to see it like that.

Could that have triggered an angry outburst ? Just a guess.

Do you have a link that he was unhappy about the house being torn down? Tearing down a house is a lengthy process. It does not happen in one day

 

[JDG]

Other contractors who repaired the shoddy workmanship did not work for free. The additional cost incurred by the homeowner to have the faulty work ripped out and rebuilt is always considered when damages are awarded for legal issues involving negligent contractors. Canadian courts do not award windfalls just because.

Insurance will often cover defects from contractors if there is proof that its their fault.

And, there is Tarion. Warranty for up to 7 years on a new build.

 

[Satchie]

.
Could that have triggered an angry outburst ? Just a guess.

RSBM

I think murder-suicide involves a lot more than an angry outburst. They say the three motives for murder are money, sex and revenge. Another would be mental illness: not just depression but full blown psychosis, often exacerbated by long periods of anxiety and lack of sleep.

 

[MistyWaters]

Insurance will often cover defects from contractors if there is proof that its their fault.

And, there is Tarion. Warranty for up to 7 years on a new build.

If you’re referring to the New Home Warrenty program, it generally covers the typical new home purchase built by a qualified builder. As Shermans had already purchased the lot and their home was built to spec requiring various specialized trades, it probably wasn’t built by just one developer.