Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[MistyWaters]

I believe its stated in the McLeans article that he did not want to move. Also states that Honey wanted a real pool and he told her they couldn't afford it.

From the same Macleans article. Your M/S theory might be a bit more believable if one wasn’t required to be so extremely selective in picking and choosing what to believe and what to ignore.

The taxpaying citizens of Toronto ought to be extremely outraged if they knew what you apparently know. A whole lot of wasted time and resources wasted in this massive coverup?

“An affidavit filed in court by a Toronto police officer detailed resources being deployed: 51 officers working the case, combing through more than 2,000 hours of security footage, with “474 investigative actions” being “vigorously pursued,” 240 people interviewed or identified to be interviewed. More warrants and “covert tactics” to track down the killers are expected.”
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

 

[Jasper52]

I believe its stated in the McLeans article that he did not want to move. Also states that Honey wanted a real pool and he told her they couldn't afford it.

As for moving, this is what BS had to say:

"Sherman wasn’t keen on moving from the house on Old Colony Road, but was doing it for Honey. “He just said: ‘You know, I wish I was staying here, but my wife wants to move so we’re moving,’ ” says Frank D’Angelo, Sherman’s close friend and business partner in non-Apotex ventures."

As for the pool, you've taken the statement completely out of context:

"At their funeral, long-time Apotex executive Jack Kay recalled Honey and Sherman visiting his house in the early days of Apotex. Taken aback when she saw a swimming pool, Honey called out her husband for telling her they couldn’t afford one."

They had an indoor and outdoor pool in their current home.

The other side of Barry Sherman

 

[ldlager]

Doesn't it seem that HS had a lot on the go right at that time? She was planning holiday festivities at the couple's vacation home in the USA, she was in the process of inviting people and receiving responses, figuring out who was coming, when, etc., and perhaps where they would be staying? She had family concerns, with I believe a new grandchild expected, and a wedding planning in the works, a home that was for sale on the open market, staff to manage, new home design plans to be figured out, and she was leaving for Florida... when? I'm pretty sure we can forgive her forgetting to let the committee know of her absence with all that she had on her plate right then. I'm sure HS has led a busy life and coordinated many things at once, prior to this.. however these things all seem of a very personal nature, babies, weddings, new home plans, selling the long-time family home.. nevermind that she was also apparently 70 years old and possibly had some health issues on top.

Yep, the earring showed up about two weeks after TPS used a metal detector in the snow. it was in plain sight. very odd.

As for an employee gaining 'access' it was on the first day, an employee lifted the police tape and placed flowers on the lawn area. Then, told to get out of there......but not into the house. Just off the roadside.

I believe the Apotex vans were used to empty the house, after the investigations, so that it could be cleaned properly.

There has been so much speculation and rumour, its easy to get it all mangled up and that allows 'stories' to continue or add credence to them.

Its a declared double murder and no one has said the TPS are NOT working on it.
Those who do the leg work, are still plugging away......it will take a long time but I'm sure there will be a resolution at some point.

For clarity, the apotex video screwup was disclosed in the latest Toronto star article that I posted about a week ago.
As for the apotex employee, I recall the employee entered the house via the side door, in the middle of the police investigation. Not just crossed the police tape.

 

[ldlager]

Thanks for your clarification. I wondered because I hadn’t noticed anything to indicate TPS was bungling this particular investigation. Without knowing the direction it’s taking, better it’s thorough rather than hasty.

Misty, the last Toronto star article clearly raised questions about tps questionable handling of this investigation.

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty, the last Toronto star article clearly raised questions about tps questionable handling of this investigation.

My apologies, then you’re referring to this.

• Why did police wait until a month after the Shermans died to view four days of CCTV footage seized from the Apotex head offices in December? The Star has discovered that when police copied the CCTV footage the weekend after the bodies were discovered they did not realize they could not view it due to a software security feature. Police eventually contacted Apotex and asked for a fresh copy of the file, according to a source with knowledge of the incident.

Sherman murder probe obtains seven more search warrants | The Star

I don’t know, is that a matter of questionable investigation? Or is it about crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s involving collection of lesser priority items?

As we really know nothing about the course of the investigation, I don’t think it can be automatically assumed four days of CCTV from one single location is significant, especially if video was obtained from other locations much closer to the Sherman home and by then it was believed the perp/s route to the Sherman residence was unrelated to Apotex.

We just don’t know nor is TPS obliged to inform us considering the Court ruling against the Star is also on their side. That’s absolutely typical during the course of an investigation - the role of LE is not to satisfy the curiosity of the public. It’s to gather adequate evidence in order that charges can eventually be filed.

 

[JDG]

Misty, the last Toronto star article clearly raised questions about tps questionable handling of this investigation.

With everything that we DONT have, I cannot agree with your statement.
There is nothing that points to questionable handling, we don't know anything other than dribs and drabs, the COD and MOD.

All in good time, all in good time.

They have to get all the ducks in a row, make some arrests and have the evidence down pat for court.

This case is HUGE and its only on tv that everything wraps in an hour or two.

 

[MistyWaters]

With everything that we DONT have, I cannot agree with your statement.
There is nothing that points to questionable handling, we don't know anything other than dribs and drabs, the COD and MOD.

All in good time, all in good time.

They have to get all the ducks in a row, make some arrests and have the evidence down pat for court.

This case is HUGE and its only on tv that everything wraps in an hour or two.

Overall 2018 has already been a high volume year for the TPS Homicide Division as well. And that’s not including unsolved homicides from prior years. As you say, cases do not wrap in an hour or two like on TV, nor do additional detectives appear during commercial breaks to take on the extra workload. Screening, hiring and training all takes time as well.

GTA has already seen more homicides in 2018 than all of 2017
“By the end of August, the GTA has recorded a total of 106 homicides, two more than what was recorded in all of 2017.”

 

[andreww]

Do you have a link to that, please?

Sherman wasn’t keen on moving from the house on Old Colony Road, but was doing it for Honey. “He just said: ‘You know, I wish I was staying here, but my wife wants to move so we’re moving,’ ” says Frank D’Angelo, Sherman’s close friend and business partner in non-Apotex ventures.

Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

 

[andreww]

From the same Macleans article. Your M/S theory might be a bit more believable if one wasn’t required to be so extremely selective in picking and choosing what to believe and what to ignore.

The taxpaying citizens of Toronto ought to be extremely outraged if they knew what you apparently know. A whole lot of wasted time and resources wasted in this massive coverup?

“An affidavit filed in court by a Toronto police officer detailed resources being deployed: 51 officers working the case, combing through more than 2,000 hours of security footage, with “474 investigative actions” being “vigorously pursued,” 240 people interviewed or identified to be interviewed. More warrants and “covert tactics” to track down the killers are expected.”
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

LOL, you kill me. Do you believe everything the police tell you? Yes a lot of people work on the case. One person might put up police tape, another might stand guard, another dusts for prints, another takes photographs, etc., etc. The point is that of the 41 officers working that case, only a handful would have enough knowledge of all the evidence to make an informed opinion. If the top man or woman makes a decision you don't agree with, you don't question it. Police forces are essentially military operations. You do what your superiors tell you, you follow orders, and you move up the ladder. The money is good and retirement comes early. It is preposterous to even consider that one high ranking officer would even think of publicly ridiculing TPS over this. Ya, I'm going to trow away my career, my six figure salary, and my retirement because I don't agree with the Barry Sherman decision. Dream on.

 

[andreww]

With everything that we DONT have, I cannot agree with your statement.
There is nothing that points to questionable handling, we don't know anything other than dribs and drabs, the COD and MOD.

All in good time, all in good time.

They have to get all the ducks in a row, make some arrests and have the evidence down pat for court.

This case is HUGE and its only on tv that everything wraps in an hour or two.

The LEAD DETECTIVE is only working this case PART-TIME. This case is DEAD. If they had even a decent lead, you can bet your a$$ that Gomes would be putting in overtime on this.

 

[deugirtni]

I'll tell you something. My brother committed suicide several years ago. He had a beautiful wife, 3 great boys, a wonderful home with a beautiful pool. He had a loving family on both sides, and he was by all accounts a very happy person. The night that I got the call that he was gone, like the Sherman kids, I was adamant that something nefarious had happened to him. I'd likely still believe that if he hadn't left a number of letters. What I am saying is that sometimes things happen that you just can't explain, and that sometimes you really don't know a person no matter how close you are. Now if my brother hadn't left notes and I had unlimited funds, I could have put together my own investigation team and I could have used the press to further my story, but I would have been wrong wouldn't I? I know how they feel, but no matter what they say or what their friends and colleagues say, I know more than probably anybody here that they are likely wrong.

I'm not hostile at the Sherman children, but I believe by now they are probably aware of what the truth might be. Their own investigation seems to be all but done, cops have all but given up, no rewards, no pleas for clues or witnesses, and basically nothing from the media. I think that their investigation was nothing more than a PR campaign.

Andreww, thank you for sharing your personal situation. My sincere sympathies on losing your brother, and especially that way. I hope that you received some counselling to help you sort out your emotions surrounding that, as it would surely be devastating on many fronts.
All of that said, one cannot presume that because things went a certain way in one case, it is the same in other cases, or all cases.
Let me ask you this - you were adamant that something nefarious had happened to your brother, but he fortunately left letters indicating what had happened. What if there had been no letters. What if there had been marks on his wrists? What if police had concluded your brother had been murdered? What if he was in fact murdered and made to appear as a suicide? What would you be saying then, regarding this case?

 

[deugirtni]

@andreww, I am not sure on your marital status, or experience in seeing long-term marriages of others, etc. I am wondering if you have ever heard the wise old saying, 'happy wife, happy life'? Soooooooooo many of the men that I have known in my lifetime, not just close, or family, or relatives, but just observing others.. are what is sometimes referred to as 'whipped'. The woman calls the shots. The woman wears the pants. The woman makes the decisions, so very often. We can all say, yes, marriage is an equal partnership.. and sometimes it IS. From what I have witnessed during my long-enough-life-to-speak-with-experience, women don't LIKE being confronted that they are the boss, AND they will tend to deny it, but yet they in fact, ARE. It's just how it is in many many marriages. The men that come to terms with that early in a marriage, seem to end up much happier. They seem to have long marriages. The men who fight for their way constantly, end up divorced. Maybe my view is tainted by numerous numerous relationships I have witnessed over years, but just mentioning. Barry may have been the most intelligent, most educated, most high powered executive, most wealthy billionaire on the earth, but what Honey said, went, and he knew it, and it doesn't mean that he harboured ill-will toward her. Just my view.

 

[andreww]

Andreww, thank you for sharing your personal situation. My sincere sympathies on losing your brother, and especially that way. I hope that you received some counselling to help you sort out your emotions surrounding that, as it would surely be devastating on many fronts.
All of that said, one cannot presume that because things went a certain way in one case, it is the same in other cases, or all cases.
Let me ask you this - you were adamant that something nefarious had happened to your brother, but he fortunately left letters indicating what had happened. What if there had been no letters. What if there had been marks on his wrists? What if police had concluded your brother had been murdered? What if he was in fact murdered and made to appear as a suicide? What would you be saying then, regarding this case?

What I am saying is that close family members are in no position to make any sort of judgment calls. In most cases, family will be adamant that their loved one would not take their own life. I was that person. I now realize that leaving police to do their jobs is the only way to get an honest account of what happened, despite the fact that on the oddest occasion they make a mistake (Millard). Having the mayor put pressure on police does not get you closer to the truth. Having a self serving investigative team leak their finding to the press, does not get you closer to the truth.

 

[andreww]

@andreww, I am not sure on your marital status, or experience in seeing long-term marriages of others, etc. I am wondering if you have ever heard the wise old saying, 'happy wife, happy life'? Soooooooooo many of the men that I have known in my lifetime, not just close, or family, or relatives, but just observing others.. are what is sometimes referred to as 'whipped'. The woman calls the shots. The woman wears the pants. The woman makes the decisions, so very often. We can all say, yes, marriage is an equal partnership.. and sometimes it IS. From what I have witnessed during my long-enough-life-to-speak-with-experience, women don't LIKE being confronted that they are the boss, AND they will tend to deny it, but yet they in fact, ARE. It's just how it is in many many marriages. The men that come to terms with that early in a marriage, seem to end up much happier. They seem to have long marriages. The men who fight for their way constantly, end up divorced. Maybe my view is tainted by numerous numerous relationships I have witnessed over years, but just mentioning. Barry may have been the most intelligent, most educated, most high powered executive, most wealthy billionaire on the earth, but what Honey said, went, and he knew it, and it doesn't mean that he harboured ill-will toward her. Just my view.

Hey, I get what you are saying, there are a lot of whipped guys out there. At one point I was one myself, until I realized it was unhealthy to deny your feelings simply to placate your wife. For all the woman out there that believe their husbands give in to them simply because they are super nice guys, you are mistaken. They do it because they can't stand listening too your incessant nagging and whining. They give in simply to shut you up. It never lasts forever, unless the husband happens to be truly spineless.

 

[MistyWaters]

LOL, you kill me. Do you believe everything the police tell you? Yes a lot of people work on the case. One person might put up police tape, another might stand guard, another dusts for prints, another takes photographs, etc., etc. The point is that of the 41 officers working that case, only a handful would have enough knowledge of all the evidence to make an informed opinion. If the top man or woman makes a decision you don't agree with, you don't question it. Police forces are essentially military operations. You do what your superiors tell you, you follow orders, and you move up the ladder. The money is good and retirement comes early. It is preposterous to even consider that one high ranking officer would even think of publicly ridiculing TPS over this. Ya, I'm going to trow away my career, my six figure salary, and my retirement because I don't agree with the Barry Sherman decision. Dream on.

Yikes, I’m totally innocent of any killing!

Seriously though, police have “told me” nothing. Frankly I’m 100% certain they don’t care about my opinion because their job is not to prove to me why their homicide investigation is warranted. Neither is the Coroner oblidged to inform me how it was determined the Shermans were both homicide victims. In the recent update from The Star regarding the application to the court to release additional information, the Judge supported the non-disclosure but also didn’t tell me why. Therefore I have very good reason to believe my opinion isn’t important.

As far as “believing”, in any criminal case, until it goes to trial, without knowing the evidence, thoughts and opinions are nothing but speculation. If you’ve not followed a lot of cases in Canada, if/when an arrest is made you will discover that LE manages to do a remarkable job in keeping investigative information confidential until charges are laid and a trial occurs. That’s just the way it is and the how it should be imo. Perhaps the reason is because politics/elections and criminal investigations aren’t interconnected in Canada.

As for your comment that police forces are essentially military operations, and you do what your superiors tell you to do... I don’t want to alarm you but the same goes for every workplace, every company, every organization, every team - you do what your superiors tell you to do. That’s plain reality, not proof of a conspiracy.

 

[andreww]

As for your comment that police forces are essentially military operations, and you do what your superiors tell you to do... I don’t want to alarm you but the same goes for every workplace, every company, every organization, every team - you do what your superiors tell you to do. That’s plain reality, not proof of a conspiracy.

Not necessarily true. For instance, if you work in a financial institution and feel your company is doing unscrupulous things, you can always work for another financial company in your city. Even then, most companies encourage employees to report unscrupulous activity. In the case of law enforcement, there is only one police force, so if you leave you are done. Find a new line of work.

This morning there was a story about a 70 year old crossing guard. He had his stop sign out and a car disregarded it. He taps the hood of the car as it passes with his sign. The guy gets out and throws the crossing guard to the ground telling him that he's an off duty cop and that a mere crossing guard can't tell him what to do. Police are called, and what do they do? Handcuff and arrest the crossing guard. Being a cop is like being in a club, you don't cross the blue line, not for any reason. Police are free to lie to your face, they just tell you its an interrogation tactic.

Consider the case of Adam Strong. Roughly the same timeline as this case. Police know this is a high profile case and that the public, especially in Oshawa, want to know what is going on. Several months back they held a press conference to announce that they had found DNA of a second missing girl in Strong's home. So yes, police can release information to the public to keep them abreast of what is happening. This case is obviously just about dead and we've heard nothing and likely never will hear another word about it.

 

[MistyWaters]

Hey, I get what you are saying, there are a lot of whipped guys out there. At one point I was one myself, until I realized it was unhealthy to deny your feelings simply to placate your wife. For all the woman out there that believe their husbands give in to them simply because they are super nice guys, you are mistaken. They do it because they can't stand listening too your incessant nagging and whining. They give in simply to shut you up. It never lasts forever, unless the husband happens to be truly spineless.

If true crime cases were only viewed through a single lens, then I suppose the job of crime solving would become quite simple. If this - then that.

Have you ever known the type of highly successful, intellegent, introverted workaholic male that Barry Sherman has been described as? If you have, as in any successful long term marriages you might notice the same type of “ying and yang” relationship described by J at the memorial. He does his thing, she does her and together the relationship is complete.

Have you ever considered this scenario? Barry isn’t into public display of his wealth. We know that for a few reasons, one that he still drives an older car to work as opposed to being chauffeured in a limousine back and forth. So one day Honey puts the bug in his ear, it’s time to think about building a new house because______. Barry agrees and while he’s working his 12 hour days, she pursues the location and handles all the preliminary arrangements. All along he’s with her all the way as she keeps him informed. But when his friends first learn about their plans often comes questions and comments....Why do you want to build, developer hassle, relocating, I thought you liked where you lived, (use your imagination).

The absolutely typical reply to this scenario in a solid marriage, is “Because the wife wants to”.

It’s interesting you perceive the response to the above scenario to only be that of a whipped man.

 

[andreww]

If true crime cases were only viewed through a single lens, then I suppose the job of crime solving would become quite simple. If this - then that.

Have you ever known the type of highly successful, intellegent, introverted workaholic male that Barry Sherman has been described as? If you have, as in any successful long term marriages you might notice the same type of “ying and yang” relationship described by J at the memorial. He does his thing, she does her and together the relationship is complete.

Have you ever considered this scenario? Barry isn’t into public display of his wealth. We know that for a few reasons, one that he still drives an older car to work as opposed to being chauffeured in a limousine back and forth. So one day Honey puts the bug in his ear, it’s time to think about building a new house because______. Barry agrees and while he’s working his 12 hour days, she pursues the location and handles all the preliminary arrangements. All along he’s with her all the way as she keeps him informed. But when his friends first learn about their plans often comes questions and comments....Why do you want to build, developer hassle, relocating, I thought you liked where you lived, (use your imagination).

The absolutely typical reply to this scenario in a solid marriage, is “Because the wife wants to”.

It’s interesting you perceive the response to the above scenario to only be that of a whipped man.

To tell you the truth, I can't think of one person Barry's age that would want to increase his living space. At his age you think of downsizing, not expanding. I honestly believe that Barry really was against this. I believe the arguments had started prior to that day causing Honey to miss her meeting. I think she may have forced the meeting with the architect on Barry, cornering him in his office. I think he might have snapped and killed her that night. After assessing the situation he decided to take the easy way out, staging the scene and ending his life. Simple as that. Not sure what piece of evidence defies this theory, except for the mysterious writ marks that apparently nobody saw except the family's investigators, who could only have seen them in photos.

 

[Satchie]

@andreww, I am not sure on your marital status, or experience in seeing long-term marriages of others, etc. I am wondering if you have ever heard the wise old saying, 'happy wife, happy life'? Soooooooooo many of the men that I have known in my lifetime, not just close, or family, or relatives, but just observing others.. are what is sometimes referred to as 'whipped'. The woman calls the shots. The woman wears the pants. The woman makes the decisions, so very often. We can all say, yes, marriage is an equal partnership.. and sometimes it IS. From what I have witnessed during my long-enough-life-to-speak-with-experience, women don't LIKE being confronted that they are the boss, AND they will tend to deny it, but yet they in fact, ARE. It's just how it is in many many marriages. The men that come to terms with that early in a marriage, seem to end up much happier. They seem to have long marriages. The men who fight for their way constantly, end up divorced. Maybe my view is tainted by numerous numerous relationships I have witnessed over years, but just mentioning. Barry may have been the most intelligent, most educated, most high powered executive, most wealthy billionaire on the earth, but what Honey said, went, and he knew it, and it doesn't mean that he harboured ill-will toward her. Just my view.

Yikes: "whipped" is a very loaded word.

I think they had a very traditional marriage, consistent with their age and social milieu. A traditional marriage divides the world up, with the husband taking care of business and everything outside the home, and the wife taking care of social relationships and everything inside the home.

The wife stays loyal and supportive to his work: entertains his business colleagues, ensures his shirts and suits are clean, never questions his decisions or doubts his competence. Similiarly, the husband stays loyal and supportive to her role: supports her as mother to their children, shows up and smiles at social occassions, lets her build her dream house for their old age, without questioning her decisions or doubting her competence.

Barry was probably happiest and spent most of his time in his office, where he commanded his empire. He seems not to have had any hobbies or be a homebody.

 

[Satchie]

I don't think the reaction of disbelief from family, friends, etc is about BS having committed suicide. The shocking suggestion is that he murdered Honey.