CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

[Sphinx]

Please someone correct me if I’m wrong, but in KD’s documentary, doesn’t someone say that they were *not* actually found with coats pulled down over their arms?

Yes, having seen the documentary very recently, I think you are right. It would be interesting to know where both coats were found. Honey likely did take her's off if she had time to put her purse down, and put on her slip-ons. Would the killers hang Barry's in a closet to make it look like he came home, then later killed Honey? If they threw it somewhere, then the idea of staging a murder suicide seems less plausible, sort of like the gloves and papers Barry dropped left in the hall where he was likely attacked entering from the garage. The video at Apotex likely showed what both Honey and Barry were wearing that night. IMO

 

[ldlager]

I think Honey arrived home closer to 8pm.

I think KD estimates she arrived around 8.20. I doubt she shoveled any snow, I suspect they had a service for that, if it was required.

 

[ldlager]

I think Honey arrived home closer to 8pm.

I think KD estimates she arrived around 8.20. I doubt she shoveled any snow, I suspect they had a service for that, if it was required.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Yes, having seen the documentary very recently, I think you are right. It would be interesting to know where both coats were found. Honey likely did take her's off if she had time to put her purse down, and put on her slip-ons. Would the killers hang Barry's in a closet to make it look like he came home, then later killed Honey? If they threw it somewhere, then the idea of staging a murder suicide seems less plausible, sort of like the gloves and papers Barry dropped left in the hall where he was likely attacked entering from the garage. The video at Apotex likely showed what both Honey and Barry were wearing that night. IMO

I wonder if they just missed it because I'd read that his jacket was on but hers wasn't. I believe she was wearing a vest.

 

[dotr]

I wonder if they just missed it because I'd read that his jacket was on but hers wasn't. I believe she was wearing a vest.

2022 rbbm

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

''A person walking in from the lone entry door would have seen Honey at the far end of the pool (40 feet away). Honey was in profile, the left side of her body the first part visible. She is fully dressed, wearing dark pants, a blouse and a blue vest. Her rear end is on the floor, her legs stretched out in front. Her shoes, simple black slip-ons (she had perpetually sore feet and liked a comfortable shoe), are almost touching the wall that faces the pool.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I believe the initial post was if DNA was on the clothing of BS or HS, to me that would be totally considered evidence.

Also the home was cleaned top to bottom, the housekeeper said it was clean except for a few leaves at the door which she swept out that Friday morning. (- off subject of this post but about the housekeeper - I am curious, she said she started the laundry, not sure what laundry she had to wash, she was there on the Tuesday or Wed 2 or 3 days prior and she did laundry that day as well. Did she only clean bed sheets? none had been slept in and the clothes hamper would be empty since BS & HS never changed clothes since Tuesday.)

IMO any DNA from anyone, especially family should not be found at 50 Old Colony Rd. Especially in the basement. It has been professionally cleaned and kept tidy for showings. The family have all said they rarely went to 50 OC. I am sure LE know the last dates and times each of them visited and what rooms they were in when they visited. IMO if any Sherman DNA other than BS or HS was found, it should be considered evidence and worth investigating.

In his Q & A KD said the Shermans had two different housekeepers in that week. The one that worked on Wednesday hasn’t yet been publicly named, AFAIK.

Another random fact I picked up (maybe from the documentary) was that the sheets were washed once a week.

FWIW, photo of laundry room and the floor plan.

https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

Real estate photos from houssmax.ca listing

 

[Sphinx]

Also getting a KD vibe that he thinks JS is involved

Hard not to think that, when the sisters of JS, Alexandria especially think he is involved, and have said so to TPS, and others. Alexandria has even said she is afraid of him. BS himself recognized that JS was trying to carry out " a palace coup " by ousting him from power, but he laughed it off. Many have said that JS is after power, as well as money. He often referred to himself as the son of a billionaire, and I think that includes the interview with KD. IMO

 

[branmuffin]

This age gap always gave me the heebie jeebies. It would be different if they were 22 and 18 but is it even legal for an 18 year old to date a 14 year old?

When I was in high school they still had grade 13 then. It was quite a compliment if a grade 12 or 13 boy asked a grade 9 girl out. It was pretty common. I think there are laws regarding that age difference in the US whereas Canada is a bit reluctant to saddle some kid with a sexual predator label for the rest of their life. So a 14 year old can give consent to non-exploitive sexual activity with an 18 year old who will not suffer those stigmas.

 

[branmuffin]

I’m so shocked by the second episode’s cliffhanger. I’m putting under a spoiler because I’m guessing many people haven’t seen it yet.

(From KD’s Crave documentary ‘The Billionaire Murders’, end of second episode.)—

Spoiler

An Apotex lawyer spoke about when FD’A would visit BS. This lawyer had an office close to Barry’s.

He said despite closing his doors and the walls in between, he could hear FD’A yelling at BS.

“What I heard was verbal abuse. And Barry took it for years and years and years.”

I’ll go back and get the person’s name. The preview for the next episode had him expanding on what he heard.

Did he actually hear the actual conversation, though? FDA sounds like he likes to bluster and if BS told him that JS didn't want him to continue to fund FDA's vanity projects I could see him going off the rails - but his fury would be toward JS not BS. And to be perfectly honest, I think it's possible BS found the kind of interaction with FDA a breath of fresh air since probably most individuals deferred to him over most issues because of his wealth and brilliance.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Did he actually hear the actual conversation, though? FDA sounds like he likes to bluster and if BS told him that JS didn't want him to continue to fund FDA's vanity projects I could see him going off the rails - but his fury would be toward JS not BS. And to be perfectly honest, I think it's possible BS found the kind of interaction with FDA a breath of fresh air since probably most individuals deferred to him over most issues because of his wealth and brilliance.

I think he could because he mentioned it was about investing. Besides that, you don't yell like that in someone else's office. It interfered with the lawyer's work and I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Did he actually hear the actual conversation, though? FDA sounds like he likes to bluster and if BS told him that JS didn't want him to continue to fund FDA's vanity projects I could see him going off the rails - but his fury would be toward JS not BS. And to be perfectly honest, I think it's possible BS found the kind of interaction with FDA a breath of fresh air since probably most individuals deferred to him over most issues because of his wealth and brilliance.

In the last episode he said FD’A was yelling about finances. Apparently in Sicilian Vampire he sits with his friends and they insult and threaten each other in Italian for fun, so it is part of his shtick.

But it seems the former Apotex felt FD’A had crossed a line, imo, if he felt he had to intervene.

 

[Rush4087]

When I was in high school they still had grade 13 then. It was quite a compliment if a grade 12 or 13 boy asked a grade 9 girl out. It was pretty common. I think there are laws regarding that age difference in the US whereas Canada is a bit reluctant to saddle some kid with a sexual predator label for the rest of their life. So a 14 year old can give consent to non-exploitive sexual activity with an 18 year old who will not suffer those stigmas.

How does the 14 year old know whether it’s non-exploitive or exploitive?

Jmo

 

[branmuffin]

How does the 14 year old know whether it’s non-exploitive or exploitive?

Jmo

Hormones.

 

[dotr]

The restaurant has recently announced that it is closing, hopefully the cold case murder of the original owner heats up.

CANADA - Canada- Andrea Peter, 69, owner of Hungarian Country Style Restaurant, Bloor St. W., bludgeoned @ home, Toronto (Vaughan/Bathurst) 9 March '82 *DNA*

March 9 2023 https://torontosun.com/news/crime/hunter-cold-case-cops-retesting-dna-in-trio-of-unsolved-murders ''Andrea Peter worked hard to put food on the table.'' ''The Hungarian immigrant was well-known for owning and operating the popular Country Style Restaurant on Bloor St. W.'' Known...

www.websleuths.com

Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman’s schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned

On the third anniversary of the murders, the Star’s ongoing investigation takes a hard look at the timeline information, including documents released by a Toronto judge last week.

www.thestar.com

rbbm 2020
''Daughter Alexandra and her husband Brad told police they sent photos of their children by text message on Thursday, getting no response. That Thursday night, son Jonathon had a planned dinner with friends from his summer camp days (including friend Josh Scheinert) at the Country Style Hungarian restaurant on Bloor Street in Toronto. Scheinert says the friends grew up with fond memories of the Old Colony house. Another attendee recalls that at the dinner, the old camp friends joked about having one last party at the house, and those at the dinner felt awful when they realized the next day that the Shermans were “lying dead at that time in the house.”''

 

[branmuffin]

Recent posts seem to imply the staging of the bodies, was meant to be an insult to the deceased and their common Jewish heritage and faith. If this in fact true, the perpetrator(s) has some deep seated and long term issues.

Was the staging intended to be a mockery of the Jewish faith and it's faithful? The next question is, who really was uncomfortable with Honey and Barry's faith. (Yes I know Barry was a self-described atheist, however he did not actively reject his Jewish faith or culture).

Occasionally those who despise a religion most, are people who were brought up in that religion, they may have had some negative experience/guilt/rejection by the faith early in life.

I don't believe BS rejected his culture. His faith, or lack thereof, is another thing altogether. Faith and culture can be entwined but I think the cultural part of any faith plays a much bigger role in someone's life. Culture is the traditions that religions perform and pass down (bar mitzvah, matzo soup, fish on Fridays, Easter parades); they become the fabric of your life. I'm pretty irreligious, haven't been to church for decades, other than weddings and funerals (the cultural part). But even though my faith is absent I always enjoyed the pomp and circumstance of Christmas midnight masses. You can involve yourself in the trappings of the culture without the belief.

 

[FromGermany1]

In the last episode he said FD’A was yelling about finances. Apparently in Sicilian Vampire he sits with his friends and they insult and threaten each other in Italian for fun, so it is part of his shtick.

But it seems the former Apotex felt FD’A had crossed a line, imo, if he felt he had to intervene.

bbm

The difference between Sicilian Vampire's acting and a conversation Frank/Barry may have been, that FD'A was the only one in BS' bureau, who insulted and yelled and indeed demanded money, so "a bit" one-sided.

 

[branmuffin]

th

The only thoughts I can come up with is that the family did not want anyone outside of family to have these mementoes, items, they wanted to bury them so no one could get to them.

To avoid situations like walking by an antique shop and seeing all of your parents personal items.

The home had professionals go through to stage it, the home was decluttered, possibly what was left would cost more money to remove and donate than it would to just demolish it all.

Is there any video of the demolition? Because I find it really strange that everything left in that house - the concrete, the rebar, huge refrigerators, the sculptures, chandeliers, acres of marble flooring and glass block was just destroyed and rolled into the earth or the pool. I don't think the pool was big enough to dump all that stuff in there. Even the lot isn't that large compared to the square footage of the home. My husband is in the building trade and he can't figure out how anyone would want to buy a lot that is filled with the detritus of a demolished home, and not just the brick and mortar but everything that was in it. In his estimation it's actually a hazardous waste site. I just can't see the city of Toronto allowing everything to be pulverized and turned into the earth. Just not possible. All that stuff had to go somewhere, albeit in an unrecognizable shape.

 

[branmuffin]

Paul Bernardo’s house was torn down after his trial was over

And he didn't even own it. The provincial government bought the home from the landlord. They dismantled the home and his vehicle and buried them in parts unknown to deter the ghoulish looking for souvenirs.

 

[Sphinx]

And he didn't even own it. The provincial government bought the home from the landlord. They dismantled the home and his vehicle and buried them in parts unknown to deter the ghoulish looking for souvenirs.

O.J. Simpson's former house in Brentwood was torn down too. No murder was committed there, as far as anyone knows, but the association with him was just too much it seems, and it was far more marketable as a valuable building lot.
The Canadian Air Force burned the convicted serial murderer Williams' uniforms so that no one would have them as a ghoulish souvenir. I think that was a good thing to do.
I hope some of the Sherman's photos and other papers were not blowing around a dump somewhere. IMO

 

[Sphinx]

Did he actually hear the actual conversation, though? FDA sounds like he likes to bluster and if BS told him that JS didn't want him to continue to fund FDA's vanity projects I could see him going off the rails - but his fury would be toward JS not BS. And to be perfectly honest, I think it's possible BS found the kind of interaction with FDA a breath of fresh air since probably most individuals deferred to him over most issues because of his wealth and brilliance.

Just from watching the KD interview with FDA, I rather liked him, and found him believable. I can see how BS liked him. All the talk about him yelling, could have just been his Italian way of expressing himself, and he may even have been re-enacting a scene from a script for Barry. I don't think BS was bullied, or put up with rudeness from anyone for very long, especially not if BS himself saw someone's behavior as rude, or manipulative.He did not like AP, and did not want him involved in family business. FDA seemed genuinely sad and disturbed that his friend was murdered.He may even fear for his own life, because no doubt Barry told him many family secrets. IMO