CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[dotr]

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[Window21]

That may explain the $100 million, but the real estate amounts don’t add up. Mary’s name was on some of the properties Honey purchased, maybe they automatically became hers? (I think the small Forest Hill home and another condo in Miami were jointly owned by Mary and Honey, although Honey apparently purchased them, according to KD.)

So I wonder if the properties that HS had MS name included on, if MS instantly become the sole owner of them properties when HS died? How would have that worked? Was she on the deed? this is interesting

 

[ldlager]

So I wonder if the properties that HS had MS name included on, if MS instantly become the sole owner of them properties when HS died? How would have that worked? Was she on the deed? this is interesting

I recall the Florida condo was owned by a trust with MS and HS as trustees, or maybe beneficiaries, I can't remember exactly. Although I recall a Toronto lawyer was also listed in the trust documents as a trustee I believe

Arivify.com - Property search website

Property data website for assessments, data, and owners.

www.arivify.com

 

[FPoulet]

I recall the Florida condo was owned by a trust with MS and HS as trustees, or maybe beneficiaries, I can't remember exactly. Although I recall a Toronto lawyer was also listed in the trust documents as a trustee I believe

Arivify.com - Property search website

Property data website for assessments, data, and owners.

www.arivify.com

I believe that it is a common way for property to be owned in Florida— by land trust. See, e.g.,

The Canadian Florida Land Trust | Ronald S. Webster Law Offices

The Most Practical, Versatile, and Beneficial Way for Canadians to hold Title to Real Estate in the State of Florida

ronwebster.com

 

[RHR]

So I wonder if the properties that HS had MS name included on, if MS instantly become the sole owner of them properties when HS died? How would have that worked? Was she on the deed? this is interesting

Did you see the documentary?
In episode 3 KD explains some of that regarding one of the houses. It’s in Forest Hill.

 

[ldlager]

I believe that it is a common way for property to be owned in Florida— by land trust. See, e.g.,

The Canadian Florida Land Trust | Ronald S. Webster Law Offices

The Most Practical, Versatile, and Beneficial Way for Canadians to hold Title to Real Estate in the State of Florida

ronwebster.com

Yes it is. The question is who ends up owning the property after the death Of HS. Of course the trust continues, but how was or how will the trust be ultimately settled?

 

[AndrewM71]

Yes it is. The question is who ends up owning the property after the death Of HS. Of course the trust continues, but how was or how will the trust be ultimately settled?

Most likely distributed amongst the beneficiaries when it is sold. It won’t be passed to them in kind. If one beneficiary wishes to buy out the others, they would likely create a new trust to do so.

It’s possible the property was sold and the trust wound up.

By the way, in strictly legal terms “settling” a trust is part of creating, not ending it.

 

[newclues]

Except he gladly accepted an eight figure divorce settlement

Did the divorce occur after BS and MS were murdered? Thus, AK would have had much more money to give BK in their divorce. Otherwise, the divorce settlement would probably not have been as big for BK. Wasn't BK also a trustee of BS's will? Hmm.

 

[FPoulet]

Replying to @newclues:

An inheritance after marriage is usually excluded from property sharing on separation in Ontario. So the sharing, if it happened, may have been voluntary vs required— so in other words, nor guaranteed. IMO it is possible that some or all of the Sherman kids had prenuptial agreements too. Speculation only.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

So I wonder if the properties that HS had MS name included on, if MS instantly become the sole owner of them properties when HS died? How would have that worked? Was she on the deed? this is interesting

Not sure how this fits in or works: but in earlier discussions on how BS did business, he sometimes created numbered companies and MS was listed as a director. I believe she was listed as a director on 50 OC?

Possibly this does not equal ownership? And why MS no longer has an income to support her past level of living.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Not sure how this fits in or works: but in earlier discussions on how BS did business, he sometimes created numbered companies and MS was listed as a director. I believe she was listed as a director on 50 OC?

Possibly this does not equal ownership? And why MS no longer has an income to support her past level of living.

Mary & Honey’s names were on title on a condo in Miami and KD made it sound as though they both bought a Forest Hill home together.

“Nothing was ever simple with Sherman plans. In fact, Honey and sister Mary (funded by the billions Barry had made in the generic drug industry) initially purchased another property in Forest Hill. When it was deemed too small for the planned construction, 91 Old Forest Hill Road was purchased”

Toronto property where Honey Sherman planned to build her dream home sells for $7.4 million — $900,000 below asking

But like you said, Mary was on the numbered company that was listed as selling 50 Old Colony.

One numbered company was dissolved after the murders and they found out years later that Barry had owned an $8million apartment building linked to the company that was somehow overlooked when they dissolved the company. (He was liquidating assists prior to the murders, and I’m surprised that building was forgotten.)

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: Thank you for hearing me today. My name is Jack Rotsztain. I’m the lawyer for the numbered company 405456 Ontario Limited. The company was dissolved a number of years ago. Unfortunately, there wasn’t a detailed search of financial records, and the company still owned a real estate property at 2102 Queen Street East. The company now wants to sell this property, and because the company was voluntarily dissolved we have to get the revival of this company to happen, and that happens by bill. That’s why I’m here.

The Chair (Ms. Jennifer K. French): Thank you.

MPP McMahon, do you have any comments to offer?

Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon: I would just say I support this idea, this motion and the bill.

The Chair (Ms. Jennifer K. French): Mr. Rotsztain, are there any other comments that you would like to make for the committee beyond what you have just said?

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: No, not really, unless there are questions.

The Chair (Ms. Jennifer K. French): Are there any other interested parties with us here today in attendance? I don’t see any.

Are there any comments from the government? MPP Oosterhoff.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: I’m just a little bit curious about how it was missed that there was this amount of property in possession of the corporation.

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: All I can say is, it happens. I don’t know why it was missed. The financial statements would have indicated an asset. They didn’t look at the financial statements. The lawyers don’t look at the financial statements. It’s normally done by the administrative end of the company, and it looks like that was missed.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: It looks like it was last fall that the corporation was dissolved. Do you know when it was realized that this error was made?

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: It was realized when I received an email from the client saying they wanted to list the property for sale. I told them the company was dissolved and they couldn’t do that until the company was revived.

Mr. Sam Oosterhoff: Was there any particular reason why the corporation was dissolved?

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: In many cases, if a company isn’t doing anything, then there’s no reason to keep it active. That was why it was dissolved.

The Chair (Ms. Jennifer K. French): Are there any other questions from the government? No?

Are there any questions or comments from the other committee members for the applicant? MPP West.

Mr. Jamie West: MPP Oosterhoff asked most of the questions I would have. I was just curious about the property. We have the address, but is it a building, a house?

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: I believe it’s an apartment building.

Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon: There was a coffee shop down below, so there’s retail down below, on a prime corner in the heart of the Beach on Queen Street.

The Chair (Ms. Jennifer K. French): Any further questions or comments from committee members? MPP Bell.

Ms. Jessica Bell: I was wondering if you could provide some additional information about the owner of the company. It seems they’re affiliated with the Sherman family.

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: I’m sorry; I can’t hear you.

Ms. Jessica Bell: I was wondering if you could provide a little bit of information about the owner of Sherfam. Their subsidiaries are—

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: Sherfam Inc. is a company owned by the estate of Barry Sherman. I’m not the corporate solicitor for Sherfam Inc. At some point before his death, it was owned by Dr. Sherman, I believe.

Ms. Jessica Bell: Is there a reason why the owners of Sherfam and this company are not here?

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: We’ve done revivals before and we never invited the clients to come to the presentation, so if nobody’s here, it would probably be because I didn’t invite them to join. There’s no other reason for them not to be here—unless there were questions to be asked of them.

The Chair (Ms. Jennifer K. French): MPP Hsu.

Mr. Ted Hsu: When a tenant pays rent, what happens when there’s no company that owns the building?

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: What happens is that, unless the bank is notified, the account still stays open because the bank wouldn’t get information that the company was dissolved.

Mr. Ted Hsu: So in this case the bank doesn’t know that—

Mr. Jack Rotsztain: I would imagine the bank does not know.

Committee Transcript 2022-Nov-03 | Legislative Assembly of Ontario

Committee Hansard Transcript - 2022-11-03 - Parliament 43 Session 1

www.ola.org

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Has anyone else read the court documents that Ann Brocklehurst linked?

Most of them are written by Detective Yim and I was constantly surprised and discouraged by how many typos and other errors there are in the documents.

Some of the new things that I learned are that Mary mentioned Jonathon’s ex-boyfriend Andrew Liss (aka Andrew London) to the police and she noted some points of conflict. Barry once apologized to Andrew about Mary’s behaviour towards him, according to Andrew.

He lived at 50 Old Colony at one point, but not much was said about it. Barry funded his projects flipping houses, but it didn’t go well.

Also, some of the cell test calls the police did were conducted at 47 Old Colony. (KD previously wrote that the police walked the neighbourhood making test calls to chart which cell towers they hit.) They mentioned 50 Old Colony and 47, and some addresses were redacted. (59 Bannatyne must be there, but it’s possibly redacted, imo.)

There’s also a large redacted area that is titled the consolidated timeline of Barry, Honey and the WM’s movements on December 13th.

 

[FPoulet]

Mary & Honey’s names were on title on a condo in Miami and KD made it sound as though they both bought a Forest Hill home together.

“Nothing was ever simple with Sherman plans. In fact, Honey and sister Mary (funded by the billions Barry had made in the generic drug industry) initially purchased another property in Forest Hill. When it was deemed too small for the planned construction, 91 Old Forest Hill Road was purchased”

Toronto property where Honey Sherman planned to build her dream home sells for $7.4 million — $900,000 below asking

But like you said, Mary was on the numbered company that was listed as selling 50 Old Colony.

One numbered company was dissolved after the murders and they found out years later that Barry had owned an $8million apartment building linked to the company that was somehow overlooked when they dissolved the company. (He was liquidating assists prior to the murders, and I’m surprised that building was forgotten.)

Committee Transcript 2022-Nov-03 | Legislative Assembly of Ontario

Committee Hansard Transcript - 2022-11-03 - Parliament 43 Session 1

www.ola.org

How did you come across this Hansard?? Impressive!

 

[JayFriend]

What if we've been thinking about the Sherman murders all wrong? Part 1

A Sherman family insider recently made a startling suggestion to me. What if Barry was never a target and was just collateral damage, the insider asked. What if the killer was after Honey, and Barry, unfortunately, came home earlier than usual and ended up dead as a result?

courthousestories.substack.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

How did you come across this Hansard?? Impressive!

I was surprised to find it—I was looking for something else! (A connection to the Blany law firm. I didn’t find it.)

 

[ldlager]

Has anyone else read the court documents that Ann Brocklehurst linked?

Most of them are written by Detective Yim and I was constantly surprised and discouraged by how many typos and other errors there are in the documents.

Some of the new things that I learned are that Mary mentioned Jonathon’s ex-boyfriend Andrew Liss (aka Andrew London) to the police and she noted some points of conflict. Barry once apologized to Andrew about Mary’s behaviour towards him, according to Andrew.

He lived at 50 Old Colony at one point, but not much was said about it. Barry funded his projects flipping houses, but it didn’t go well.

Also, some of the cell test calls the police did were conducted at 47 Old Colony. (KD previously wrote that the police walked the neighbourhood making test calls to chart which cell towers they hit.) They mentioned 50 Old Colony and 47, and some addresses were redacted. (59 Bannatyne must be there, but it’s possibly redacted, imo.)

There’s also a large redacted area that is titled the consolidated timeline of Barry, Honey and the WM’s movements on December 13th.

Thanks. Yes, I too am disappointed with the errors, typos, grammar errors, and inconsistencies in many of these sworn documents. It makes me wonder how rigorous the investigation has been, if the sworn documents contain errors and issues such as these.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Thanks. Yes, I too am disappointed with the errors, typos, grammar errors, and inconsistencies in many of these sworn documents. It makes me wonder how rigorous the investigation has been, if the sworn documents contain errors and issues such as these.

Over 20 years ago I was on jury duty for armed robbery and one of the reasons we found the guy not guilty was because the cop lost his note booklet. Other reasons were that the witnesses were brutal, one woman was crying hysterically and a man said the accused was around 6 feet tall when he was 6'6". After dealing with that, I'm perfectly fine with the cops on this case being really sure about everything!

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Misadventures in Thinking

Some thoughts

The latest 2 from Dennis Curry

 

[dotr]

Misadventures in Thinking

Some thoughts

The latest 2 from Dennis Curry

Thanks for the intriguing fresh links, love this pic.

DALL·E/OpenAI

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Thanks for the intriguing fresh links, love this pic.
View attachment 441082
DALL·E/OpenAI

I like hearing different theories. Most of us are fixated on one person as the suspect but we might be wrong.