CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[AddyFinch]

This is a really interesting possibility. Like I said- I’d love to see the full cell call logs.

If they could hear the phone ringing, wouldn’t that cause worry? I’d be inclined to do a wellness check potentially in that situation. Or maybe people don’t want to intrude?

Possibility, but think they would have alerted someone else, just incase, esp if person was a female.

 

[AddyFinch]

IMO Apotex servers had way more intel on BS, his daily communications etc, than HS knew.

I’m chuckling, nodding, and saying….you betcha!

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Possibility, but think they would have alerted someone else, just incase, esp if person was a female.

How far are police allowed to go in a situation like this where they think a 911 call came from within a house? Can they break a door down? Pick a lock?

 

[FPoulet]

How far are police allowed to go in a situation like this where they think a 911 call came from within a house? Can they break a door down? Pick a lock?

It seems unlikely to me that they would do so, especially so many hours after the call.

But I don’t know. I suppose it also may depend what the call said, if anything. A hang up? It seems unlikely in this day and age with 911 being sadly under serviced- but I don’t know.

 

[FPoulet]

Also, very creepy to imagine someone being in the home and oblivious to the murders the night before.

Possibly Honey had a meeting with someone who had a key? Who was waiting for her… wondering where she was, given the appointment and her car was there. I could see someone like that waiting around for a long time, in case she just stepped out to grab something, or popped over to a neighbor’s to get a cup of sugar or something.

 

[Cedars]

It seems unlikely to me that they would do so, especially so many hours after the call.

But I don’t know. I suppose it also may depend what the call said, if anything. A hang up? It seems unlikely in this day and age with 911 being sadly under serviced- but I don’t know.

I agree, IMO TPS would never waste time physically hanging around a home like that. IMO that's the behaviour of a minion of some sort, who is afraid of getting into trouble by letting down a client who expected them to wait.

I think it's up to the 911 operator to decide whether a hang up call, which doesn't answer in call back, was just a misdial. According to my internet searches, if it is a landline, they might dispatch emergency fire or police (whichever is available). But with cell phones, they don't know exactly where the person is calling from, plus accidental calls are so common, I think the 911 operator just ignores them and doesn't pass them on to fire/medical or police.

Police warn about accidental 911 calls after Android software update

Toronto police are urging people to adjust the emergency settings on their mobile devices following an 'exponential increase' in accidental 911 calls.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

 

[Cedars]

Also, very creepy to imagine someone being in the home and oblivious to the murders the night before.

Possibly Honey had a meeting with someone who had a key? Who was waiting for her… wondering where she was, given the appointment and her car was there. I could see someone like that waiting around for a long time, in case she just stepped out to grab something, or popped over to a neighbor’s to get a cup of sugar or something.

I recently heard a story about an acquaintance (in her 60s and single) who died in her sleep. She'd invited a friend to dinner, friend showed up and waited around outside and texted, then just went home, possible miffed. It never occurred to them that the hostess had died the night before and was still in her bed.

 

[ldlager]

yes I agree, but.. could be novice..."make it look normal Joey, pretend your the security company". Heck, he could be yelling into the house "are you finished yet" (the possible theory there was a second person to stage the bodies). All of these suggestions seems quite hilarious when looked at from this lengthy date, but the bungling of a hit, or the bungling of LE in their duties is a thought. It happens.
I do think the LE if they have nothing re the person who enters 3x, then they need to tell public, as this drama does create distrust with the public. We don't need their name just how they fit into the picture.

Or was the crime scene tampered with during the 1.5 hours it took to contact LE when the bodies were discovered? Turns out a relative of either BS or HS (can’t remember which) evidently drove over to the house during that time.

 

[ldlager]

Possibly the "lure" was KD telling the public he thinks he knows who it is and that he thinks LE believe it is the same person as he does.

I have seen few articles with any new evidence from him since he made that statement.

Maybe, it is now KD that is under police protection/surveillance, maybe he now is working closer with LE?

Canada are known for "sting" operations, lets hope one is in the works now! Some of these operations take months, years to complete.

Never mind a sting operation. TPS has conducted a STINK operation

 

[Lexiintoronto]

On Thursday morning at about 8:30 Honey was expected to be at a meeting. I think there’s a small chance the Thursday visitor was someone from the meeting who was worried that she hadn’t shown up.

They saw her car and it’s possible if they were at the front door they called her cell phone and could hear it ringing.

Just noting the source. At around the 14:00 mark of the 4th episode of his documentary KD said Honey had an 8:30 am board meeting for one of the charities she supported.

The Thursday visitor was at the home from 9:11 am - 10:16 am. The uniformed officer was at a neighbour’s home at 9:45 am asking whether they had called 911.

Not correct. The camera can not see if the person went inside the home or not. There is a blind spot between the what the camera can record and the front door at Old Colony. So, although the camera captures the person going to the front door it loses him at the door.

I just found what you’re referring to:

The neighbours, who provided the video to police, said the images on the video are blurry, as it was focused on their own property and only picked up the Sherman property in the background. They said it was not possible to make out the man’s face, the licence plate on the car or the type of car. The neighbours have said they believed the man went in and out of the Sherman house but the Sherman private detective team has studied the same video and it is “inconclusive” as to whether the man enters the house or stood in the alcove leading to the front door, according to Brian Greenspan, lawyer for the Sherman family.

Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead

Police investigated a 911 call on the Sherman’s street when the couple lay dead or dying, neighbours say. A security camera also captured a car pulling up and a man approaching the house three times.

www.thestar.com

I think this may be the alcove he’s referring to:

The mystery of who killed a billionaire couple has turned siblings against each other and confounded a nation

Barry and Honey Sherman were discovered by the swimming pool at their luxury Toronto estate, and their murders have confounded detectives for over five years. Could a multi-million-dollar reward now unlock the case? WARNING: Readers might find some details in this story distressing.

www.google.ca

 

[FPoulet]

Just noting the source. At around the 14:00 mark of the 4th episode of his documentary KD said Honey had an 8:30 am board meeting for one of the charities she supported.

The Thursday visitor was at the home from 9:11 am - 10:16 am. The uniformed officer was at a neighbour’s home at 9:45 am asking whether they had called 911.

I just found what you’re referring to:

The neighbours, who provided the video to police, said the images on the video are blurry, as it was focused on their own property and only picked up the Sherman property in the background. They said it was not possible to make out the man’s face, the licence plate on the car or the type of car. The neighbours have said they believed the man went in and out of the Sherman house but the Sherman private detective team has studied the same video and it is “inconclusive” as to whether the man enters the house or stood in the alcove leading to the front door, according to Brian Greenspan, lawyer for the Sherman family.

Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead

Police investigated a 911 call on the Sherman’s street when the couple lay dead or dying, neighbours say. A security camera also captured a car pulling up and a man approaching the house three times.

www.thestar.com

I think this may be the alcove he’s referring to:
View attachment 446434

The mystery of who killed a billionaire couple has turned siblings against each other and confounded a nation

Barry and Honey Sherman were discovered by the swimming pool at their luxury Toronto estate, and their murders have confounded detectives for over five years. Could a multi-million-dollar reward now unlock the case? WARNING: Readers might find some details in this story distressing.

www.google.ca

@Lexiintoronto you are encyclopedic!

The timing being 9:11am to 10:16am makes it even more likely IMO that it was a service provider scheduled for 9:15-10:15am. MOO

 

[FPoulet]

@Lexiintoronto you are encyclopedic!

The timing being 9:11am to 10:16am makes it even more likely IMO that it was a service provider scheduled for 9:15-10:15am. MOO

Why would TPS send a uniformed officer to one house and a separate plainclothes officer with a different car right down the street to another house- all to inquire about a terminated 911 call. Seems more doubtful given resource scarcity. MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

@Lexiintoronto you are encyclopedic!

The timing being 9:11am to 10:16am makes it even more likely IMO that it was a service provider scheduled for 9:15-10:15am. MOO

Which service provider would be wasting his time for an hour in front of someone's closed door (pausing in his car in between)? He even couldn't invoice the time of 1 hour afterwards, because he had to do with the frugal billionaires, who would have precisely checked his bill.
An insurance agent may have waited for an hour, doing his scheduling during the pauses in his car. Is that branch called "service provider" - Idk.
All IMO and MOO.

 

[sandy_80]

Agree with all of ^^
unfortunately from the get go, LE goofed up, by giving an uninformed statement. A prepared statement containing zero info would have been the wiser road. “ At this time we are not prepared to make a statement, but will provide some details later in investigation”. Now some of us question LE work standards/cred. We lump the McArthur murders into same pot,& viola we have a recipe for some, who think TPS screwed up both cases.
Protection of crime scene, witnesses, evidence, and any others involved with case is utmost to preserve legal integrity of case. Keep the case and all its contents close to your chest, involve only a few LE officers to keep the “who’s in the know“ even closer.
Besides demolishing the house, I am perplexed why the family with all their money, sorrow, anger etc, haven’t hired their own team of private investigators? Maybe I’m different, but there isn’t a hope in hades after all this time, I would be sitting back doing nothing. They grew up there, have they talked to their neighbours? SearchEd the house for clues ? Heck they allowed their parents personal effects to be demolished in the house without a care . Nope I would be grieving and the last things that surrounded my parents would be examined, photos kept, momentos distributed between siblings, and I wouldn’t give up til answers were had, at least in a reasonable time frame. Have all the kids recovered and moved on? Not simply a case of parents passing away from age related ailments, they were murdered and staged.

money heals all wounds..especially superficial ones
they shouldnt have had this vote in the first place...since there is suspicion hanging over the family..

 

[ldlager]

Which service provider would be wasting his time for an hour in front of someone's closed door (pausing in his car in between)? He even couldn't invoice the time of 1 hour afterwards, because he had to do with the frugal billionaires, who would have precisely checked his bill.
An insurance agent may have waited for an hour, doing his scheduling during the pauses in his car. Is that branch called "service provider" - Idk.
All IMO and MOO.

HS also had a personal trainer that was male. I recall he showed up at the house on the Friday that the bodies were discovered, and he was turned away by police. Maybe he was scheduled to work at the Sherman’s on Thursday as well?

 

[FPoulet]

HS also had a personal trainer that was male. I recall he showed up at the house on the Friday that the bodies were discovered, and he was turned away by police. Maybe he was scheduled to work at the Sherman’s on Thursday as well?

This seems like the most reasonable possibility yet. My guess is that if she was a no show he’d assume she’s late and stick around (and may very well bill as usually service providers like that have a 24-hour cancellation policy).

He may have had a key. It’s also possible that the door was left unlocked. We know that the alarm system was left off. What’s to say the door wasn’t left open.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Also, very creepy to imagine someone being in the home and oblivious to the murders the night before.

Possibly Honey had a meeting with someone who had a key? Who was waiting for her… wondering where she was, given the appointment and her car was there. I could see someone like that waiting around for a long time, in case she just stepped out to grab something, or popped over to a neighbor’s to get a cup of sugar or something.

or was in the shower?

 

[ldlager]

This seems like the most reasonable possibility yet. My guess is that if she was a no show he’d assume she’s late and stick around (and may very well bill as usually service providers like that have a 24-hour cancellation policy).

He may have had a key. It’s also possible that the door was left unlocked. We know that the alarm system was left off. What’s to say the door wasn’t left open.

I need my memory refreshed. When the cleaner arrived on the Friday morning she discovered the alarm wasn’t set and she let herself in. Did she say the door was locked and she used a key? Or was the door unlocked? I believe she used the entrance where HS usually entered, and not the front door?

 

[WINDSOR]

Addy Finch said .."I am perplexed why the family with all their money, sorrow, anger etc, haven’t hired their own team of private investigators?"

They did. They had a team under the guidance of lawyer of Brian Greenspan. Whatever they did discover, Greenspan said was turned over to the TPS.

Curious, the family members hired the Greenspan team, while many believe, possibly a family member was involved in the crime.

Reminds me of cases where a female victim disappears, search parties are formed, and the actual perpetrator of the crime joins the search party!

 

[dotr]

I need my memory refreshed. When the cleaner arrived on the Friday morning she discovered the alarm wasn’t set and she let herself in. Did she say the door was locked and she used a key? Or was the door unlocked? I believe she used the entrance where HS usually entered, and not the front door?

rbbm

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

In an exclusive look at the first stage of the high profile double murder case, the Toronto Star has gained access to police statements and interviews after a nearly three-year long court battle.

www.thestar.com

'Macatangay collected the paper, and the mail, and she and the trainer walked to the side door. It was locked. Macatangay used her key and was surprised to find the alarm system was off. As she later told police, it was always armed when she arrived. Honey’s aging gold Lexus SUV was in its regular spot by the side door.
Around the same time, a white van from a furnace company showed up. It was a regular service call by Allan Caruk. The 12,000-square-foot house had four furnaces. Caruk followed the housekeeper and trainer inside. He took his tools and went down to the furnace room in the cavernous basement.'