CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[FPoulet]

The only way I can see Goodmans involved with the Blaney emails of HS, are if she used an Apotex email address and it is secured via the Apotex email systems and would fall under Goodmans Lawyer advice.

At this point, the estate effectively owned Apotex so I expect both the estate and Apotex were controlled by the same people

 

[FPoulet]

the biggy... how come there is a video of this person x3 at the house, but not the killer? Where are all the other neighbourhood cameras? Did the neighbours willingly talk to LE and turn over their videos, or were they reluctant to talk to LE? Did they have an axe to grind with the BS & HS, and are withholding evidence? And how many security systems saves those videos for that length of time? Most only save for short period of time. Did LE have this video all this time, but not saying that?

We don’t know that there *isn’t* video of the killer. In fact, we know there is video evidence of the walking man being in the vicinity of their home. It is possible the walking man went in through another entrance that is not on the camera, rather than the front door. That would not be surprising, especially since the walking man seems to avert their face from cameras when walking down Ballantyne.

There could also be additional video of other people. We do not know.

 

[FPoulet]

I may be in the minority, but I do not have a problem with the police not disclosing all of their information to the public.

My view is that, if the information is not being disclosed, it is may well be for a legitimate reason related to the investigation. I would rather that we do not have all of our questions answered, or our curiosity satisfied, now if it means that it is more likely that there will someday be an arrest and conviction.

I am not naive, but I am still highly skeptical that the police are involved in a cover-up in this case.

Now, if no progress is made over an even longer period of time, then I think the case requires more scrutiny, including potentially by a fresh investigative team. But I’m inclined to give the police a bit more time.

We don’t know what info they have.

I would like to know why KD thinks the police have a theory of what happened, and how detailed that theory is. i.e., if the theory is a simply that “the walking man did it”, but they have no idea who the WM is or why he did it, then that is not a real “theory” IMO.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

My thoughts on NW... gait could be off due to bunions, ingrown toenail, polio as a child, football injury etc etc. Not necessarily military injury, but could be an avenue of thought. I doubt this bloke has any involvement.

A professional hit man, could do the job alone, then text the job is done, and monies electronically transferred. He then could allow whoever to have access to the house to do whatever they desired to do (post mortem). (The terms of agreement could include, "if the person doing the hiring arrived too early to do the staging, he too would also be killed".)

The hitman would remain anonymous, he could control the scene and ensure none of his evidence was left, and might garner more money. A professional hitman would not make it personal. He wouldn't care what happened to those bodies once his money was secured. He wouldn't be in there any longer than necessary, maybe 30 minutes?

The only way I can see the hit being accomplished by one person is that person had a weapon. Secured HS with zip ties, BS arrived next, he secured the zip ties by threatening to harm BS. Barry complied, both thinking they would get out of this alive. They didn't fight, why? At that age what did they have to lose, and I be they thought exactly that way. There had to be a weapon as a threat.
All these so called leaks to KD, really?? If so, why hasn't investigators or KD, thrown a bone to draw the individual to act out? Why hasn't there been a major leak or set up to make the person nervous? Eventually amateurs will make a fatal mistake and goof up, or talk. Ensuring the case does't get compromised is important or tossed out of court due to a slip up by LE, but I am sure someone has a wiley way of making people antsy... if you know what I mean.

Possibly the "lure" was KD telling the public he thinks he knows who it is and that he thinks LE believe it is the same person as he does.

I have seen few articles with any new evidence from him since he made that statement.

Maybe, it is now KD that is under police protection/surveillance, maybe he now is working closer with LE?

Canada are known for "sting" operations, lets hope one is in the works now! Some of these operations take months, years to complete.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Who had the most intimate knowlege of BS besides HS?

possibly Goodmans?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I don't think money is the main motive. In these murders of two elderly people, I perceive cruelty, a sadism. He’s probably a relative.

I have not thought sadism at all, that normally includes a sexual aspect. What of this case/staging do you feel leads to any sexual gratifications here?

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
sa·dism
/ˈsāˌdizəm/
noun
the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.
"beneath the apparent loving concern she had glimpsed spite and sadism"
Similar:
schadenfreude
callousness
barbarity
bestiality
perversion
viciousness
brutality
cruelty
savagery
fiendishness
cold-bloodedness

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Someone who had access to her devices that weren't password protected. Someone who had office space at Apotex. Someone who bugged his office or airtagged their cars. Honey and Barry were not careful about security at all.

IMO Apotex servers had way more intel on BS, his daily communications etc, than HS knew.

 

[sandy_80]

We don’t know that there *isn’t* video of the killer. In fact, we know there is video evidence of the walking man being in the vicinity of their home. It is possible the walking man went in through another entrance that is not on the camera, rather than the front door. That would not be surprising, especially since the walking man seems to avert their face from cameras when walking down Ballantyne.

There could also be additional video of other people. We do not know.

first of all le didnt look for any video at all for the first weeks meaning footage was lost ..and this particular women tried 3 times untill le took it..and then when she heard nothing about it..she contacted the media
bingo..thats when le claims they know this person and whatever
isnt this supposed to be in the redacted documents.. or they havent released everything ?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

On Thursday morning at about 8:30 Honey was expected to be at a meeting. I think there’s a small chance the Thursday visitor was someone from the meeting who was worried that she hadn’t shown up.

They saw her car and it’s possible if they were at the front door they called her cell phone and could hear it ringing.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

dbm

 

[FromGermany1]

On Thursday morning at about 8:30 Honey was expected to be at a meeting. I think there’s a small chance the Thursday visitor was someone from the meeting who was worried that she hadn’t shown up.

They saw her car and it’s possible if they were at the front door they called her cell phone and could hear it ringing.

Someone emailed with HS because of the missed Charity meeting, and HS was able to explain it (dealing with stuff). Idk, if a visit to her home was still required?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Someone emailed with HS because of the missed Charity meeting, and HS was able to explain it (dealing with stuff). Idk, if a visit to her home was still required?

You’re right, that was on the 12th. She also had a meeting on the 14th. I’m pretty sure it was at 8:30, but I’d have to look for the link. From KD’s book:

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I may be in the minority, but I do not have a problem with the police not disclosing all of their information to the public.

My view is that, if the information is not being disclosed, it is may well be for a legitimate reason related to the investigation. I would rather that we do not have all of our questions answered, or our curiosity satisfied, now if it means that it is more likely that there will someday be an arrest and conviction.

I am not naive, but I am still highly skeptical that the police are involved in a cover-up in this case.

Now, if no progress is made over an even longer period of time, then I think the case requires more scrutiny, including potentially by a fresh investigative team. But I’m inclined to give the police a bit more time.

We don’t know what info they have.

I would like to know why KD thinks the police have a theory of what happened, and how detailed that theory is. i.e., if the theory is a simply that “the walking man did it”, but they have no idea who the WM is or why he did it, then that is not a real “theory” IMO.

I am also not bothered by them not disclosing info. I've watched cases on Dateline and other shows where a case wasn't solved for decades and the cops still hadn't given out key details.

As far as this guy who went to the front door goes, I doubt it was the killer. There is no way he would return to the scene of the murders as it would have been too risky. I'm still thinking it was a cop and that they may not be telling us because the optics are bad. I also wonder if he's the one that broke the lock. Maybe he did and he went in, called their names, took a look around everywhere but the pool room and left.

If it was a cop, I am surprised he didn't call family or the realtor whose sign was out front. Was that more bad policing?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

No explanation has ever been provided by Toronto police of either of these activities. Then chief Mark Saunders said police “know” who the man at the Sherman door was, but said nothing further. The Star has asked if that person was a plainclothes police officer checking on a 911 call. Police said they could not respond because it was all “part of the investigation.”

So the TPS know who this individual is and will not say anymore because it is part of the investigation. Does that mean the individual is totally unrelated and therefore not pertinent to the crimes. I am not so sure.

The TPS may believe he is somehow related to the crimes, but do not know how and therefore are not saying anything until they have the case wrapped up.

This persons identity has to be significant to the TPS, as numerous identities of people involved with the Sherman's have been made public by many different sources. I think if this person was not somehow potentially relevant to the case, I think his identity would be public by now.

I also believe that this person, unless he worked for Law enforcement, or a Lawyer, he would have probably self-identified by now as well.

MOO

I just had a thought, maybe they are protecting this person's identity as they have intel to the crime scene before the housekeeper swept up leaves and picked up a phone, etc.. Before anyone else was in the house?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

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note how le doesnt deny this person was inside the house ?! making KD thoery even weaker
what could be the purpose of going there and back to the car anyway
waiting for contact or orders from another person ?
collecting items from inside or outside the crime scene ?
waiting for a signal ?
clearing the crime scene ?
till they tell us who is this and what they were doing there by physical evidence.. id say all i listed is very valid

or simply waiting and warming up in the car, it was bitterly cold that week.

 

[Lonicera]

I have not thought sadism at all, that normally includes a sexual aspect. What of this case/staging do you feel leads to any sexual gratifications here?

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
sa·dism
/ˈsāˌdizəm/
noun
the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation on others.
"beneath the apparent loving concern she had glimpsed spite and sadism"
Similar:
schadenfreude
callousness
barbarity
bestiality
perversion
viciousness
brutality
cruelty
savagery
fiendishness
cold-bloodedness

This is sadism. This practice has many names. The word "sadism" comes from Donatien Alphonse François de Sade. Donatien Alphonse François de Sade — Wikipédia
And we know from the archives he was not one.

 

[sandy_80]

I am also not bothered by them not disclosing info. I've watched cases on Dateline and other shows where a case wasn't solved for decades and the cops still hadn't given out key details.

As far as this guy who went to the front door goes, I doubt it was the killer. There is no way he would return to the scene of the murders as it would have been too risky. I'm still thinking it was a cop and that they may not be telling us because the optics are bad. I also wonder if he's the one that broke the lock. Maybe he did and he went in, called their names, took a look around everywhere but the pool room and left.

If it was a cop, I am surprised he didn't call family or the realtor whose sign was out front. Was that more bad policing?

a cop in a dark sedan ?
i see no reason to deny a cop went to check ..what 911 is this anyway ?
they werent ashamed of the dumb conclusion to the murders to hide this fact alone

 

[FPoulet]

On Thursday morning at about 8:30 Honey was expected to be at a meeting. I think there’s a small chance the Thursday visitor was someone from the meeting who was worried that she hadn’t shown up.

They saw her car and it’s possible if they were at the front door they called her cell phone and could hear it ringing.

This is a really interesting possibility. Like I said- I’d love to see the full cell call logs.

If they could hear the phone ringing, wouldn’t that cause worry? I’d be inclined to do a wellness check potentially in that situation. Or maybe people don’t want to intrude?

 

[AddyFinch]

Agree with all of ^^
unfortunately from the get go, LE goofed up, by giving an uninformed statement. A prepared statement containing zero info would have been the wiser road. “ At this time we are not prepared to make a statement, but will provide some details later in investigation”. Now some of us question LE work standards/cred. We lump the McArthur murders into same pot,& viola we have a recipe for some, who think TPS screwed up both cases.
Protection of crime scene, witnesses, evidence, and any others involved with case is utmost to preserve legal integrity of case. Keep the case and all its contents close to your chest, involve only a few LE officers to keep the “who’s in the know“ even closer.
Besides demolishing the house, I am perplexed why the family with all their money, sorrow, anger etc, haven’t hired their own team of private investigators? Maybe I’m different, but there isn’t a hope in hades after all this time, I would be sitting back doing nothing. They grew up there, have they talked to their neighbours? SearchEd the house for clues ? Heck they allowed their parents personal effects to be demolished in the house without a care . Nope I would be grieving and the last things that surrounded my parents would be examined, photos kept, momentos distributed between siblings, and I wouldn’t give up til answers were had, at least in a reasonable time frame. Have all the kids recovered and moved on? Not simply a case of parents passing away from age related ailments, they were murdered and staged.

 

[AddyFinch]

I just had a thought, maybe they are protecting this person's identity as they have intel to the crime scene before the housekeeper swept up leaves and picked up a phone, etc.. Before anyone else was in the house?

Yes, and if he contaminated crime scene, he can say he did it accidentally….