CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[FPoulet]

Also, why doesn’t she suspect Adam? If her concerns have anything to do with Barry and financing, Adam played a direct role.

Alex may also suspect Adam. She described him, along with JS, as a “money-hungry monster”. Her belief that JS is involved does not preclude her belief that others are also involved. MOO

Don’t you think the media has generally steered away from discussing much about AP? It seems that way.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I found this comment in the article interesting. I would be interested to know who the source with knowledge of the police investigation is.

1. Could it be JS, who went to school with and knows the author? Or someone who is allied with JS? Certainly this article has a more favourable bent toward JS.

2. Could it be a reliable police source, telling the truth?

3. Could it be a reliable police source, giving misleading information as they do not want the truth of the matter publicly reported? Perhaps not wanting suspects to feel they are suspects.

4. Could it someone else entirely? And do they have an agenda or motive for engaging on this and saying this — true or not?

Either this information is wonky or KD is getting his own wonky information and/or is barking up the wrong tree.

MOO/ speculation.

If KD is barking up the wrong tree he is going to have major egg on his face. While he hasn't said who it is he suspects, it's been strongly implied. Ann Brokelhurst doesn't think it's JS. I hope his contacts are trustworthy for his sake.

 

[FPoulet]

If KD is barking up the wrong tree he is going to have major egg on his face. While he hasn't said who it is he suspects, it's been strongly implied. Ann Brokelhurst doesn't think it's JS. I hope his contacts are trustworthy for his sake.

Who does AB think the murderer(s) may be? Has she advanced a theory?

AB’s last post —based on my reading/moo— insinuated MS, but AB point-blank states that MS isn’t the killer in her response to comments on that post.

So from AB’s perspective it is not MS, not JS…

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Who does AB think the murderer(s) may be? Has she advanced a theory?

AB’s last post —based on my reading/moo— insinuated MS, but AB point-blank states that MS isn’t the killer in her response to comments on that post.

So from AB’s perspective it is not MS, not JS…

AB wrote that she believes if an arrest is made it may be a person that either hasn’t been mentioned or little has been said about them.

 

[newclues]

I don’t think the murders were for revenge for a conflict that happened so many years earlier. MOO is that there is zero likelihood of that.

Sometimes a relative related to the hurt person like a child might exact vengeance many years later, especially if it is something unresolved and constantly simmering in their mind and that won't go away unless they do something about it.

 

[newclues]

AB wrote that she believes if an arrest is made it may be a person that either hasn’t been mentioned or little has been said about them.

In other words, someone who is not an easily potential obvious suspect (JK?, BK?, AG?, AP?, etc.) who has benefitted from the fact that JS, KW, FDA, etc. are much more obvious potential suspects due to their suspicious behaviors and prior contentious histories with BS/HS.

 

[newclues]

I recognize that such a late revenge may seem unlikely. Examples exist. Here is one:

"The revenge of the cuckold castleman upset the French village of Flavin​

He had returned from the United States to punish his wife's former lover by killing his wife and his two children. The resolution of the news of Valentine's Day relieves the inhabitants of the small Aveyron commune " La vengeance du châtelain cocu a bouleversé le village français de Flavin - Le Temps

An example of a vengeful crime of passion. The strangulation of BS and HS makes it a very personal and upclose one.

 

[newclues]

As we know KD said that something happened in December, 2018 at Jonathon’s and Adam’s cottage that prompted Alexandra to go to the police with her suspicions that Jonathon was involved in the murders. She wrote to Greenspan saying that Jonathon and Adam are ‘money-hungry monsters’. She also told Greenspan that Barry had wanted Jonathon and Adam to find financing for their storage company elsewhere, but Jonathon would throw fits and Barry would cave in. She saw parallels between that behaviour and how Jonathon had been pressuring her to fund the hockey rink with Sherman charity money.

Bloomberg makes it sound as though Jonathon was unaware of whatever happened in December.

““In early 2019, Alexandra stopped replying to calls and messages from Jonathon. Before then the siblings, who’d been close since childhood, had been in regular communication. For example, while Greenspan represented all four children, it was Jonathon and Alexandra who were functionally his clients, holding regular meetings with him. The eldest and youngest children, Lauren and Kaelen, weren’t deeply engaged with the private investigation.

Jonathon sent Alexandra a long email in April, headed “I miss you, please read.” He told her he’d “always counted you as my closest confidant, and I’m feeling pretty hurt that you don’t want to talk to me.” Jonathon continued: “If there is something I’ve done to upset you to the point that you won’t answer the phone when I call, could you please explain it to me?” Eventually he learned what had changed. Alexandra, four people with knowledge of her views said, had begun to think Jonathon might have been involved in their parents’ deaths. It’s unclear what drove her to that suspicion, and the police, according to the person with knowledge of their investigation, didn’t view it as being based on any evidence.”


If Bloomberg had a police source that told them Alexandra didn’t have evidence implicating Jonathon, why not tell Bloomberg exactly why she suspects him and clear it up?

Also, why doesn’t she suspect Adam? If her concerns have anything to do with Barry and financing, Adam played a direct role.

Didn't he have a gun or some other weapon which made her somewhat scared of him?

 

[newclues]

Maybe there was a symbolic reason why their bodies were posed in that very specific part of the house as follows:
"In 1996, after the Shermans' North York home was completed following five years of construction, the couple was dissatisfied with the work done on it. In particular, they claimed that the garage, a structure with a tennis court on top and a basement lap pool and hot tub, was faulty; Sherman called it a "disaster". He and his wife filed twelve separate suits against all the contractors; ultimately they would recover almost the entire estimated $2.3 million cost of building the house through favorable judgments." Their bodies were found in the swimming pool part that was closest to all of the other parts as well like the hot tub, garage, and tennis court. Also, the part about the inspection papers being found by the door of the garage along with gloves being laid on top of the papers all so neatly. Was it both purposely posed as a symbolic message or just coincidence?

 

[newclues]

Alex may also suspect Adam. She described him, along with JS, as a “money-hungry monster”. Her belief that JS is involved does not preclude her belief that others are also involved. MOO

Don’t you think the media has generally steered away from discussing much about AP? It seems that way.

Isn't he putting up more reward money than all of his sisters combined?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Isn't he putting up more reward money than all of his sisters combined?

Yup, but it's easy to put up a ton of money if you know it will never be claimed. MOO.

 

[FPoulet]

Yup, but it's easy to put up a ton of money if you know it will never be claimed. MOO.

Or if you are trying to curry favour, enhance your profile— or distract that you are connected to the crime —— only hypothetical/speculation.

The reality is that a sum like that would not be missed for any of these siblings now.

Also- I always wonder- how are these awards administered? Who makes the decision and when? After an arrest? What if the family says it’s the wrong person? How can one be sure to be paid?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Maybe there was a symbolic reason why their bodies were posed in that very specific part of the house as follows:
"In 1996, after the Shermans' North York home was completed following five years of construction, the couple was dissatisfied with the work done on it. In particular, they claimed that the garage, a structure with a tennis court on top and a basement lap pool and hot tub, was faulty; Sherman called it a "disaster". He and his wife filed twelve separate suits against all the contractors; ultimately they would recover almost the entire estimated $2.3 million cost of building the house through favorable judgments." Their bodies were found in the swimming pool part that was closest to all of the other parts as well like the hot tub, garage, and tennis court. Also, the part about the inspection papers being found by the door of the garage along with gloves being laid on top of the papers all so neatly. Was it both purposely posed as a symbolic message or just coincidence?

I do not believe that we have a full report on how the gloves and the envelope actually were on the floor when the real estate agent picked them up from the floor. She then placed the gloves on the envelope and laid them on a ledge where crime scene investigators would find them. The report does not have her statement including they were spread out, just on the floor in the middle of the path to the pool room.

IMO it appears many of the little staged pieces the perp(s) left were moved by the people in the room that morning. Wonder how this may have altered the scene? IMO all the items left out are part of the staging, they spent over an hour in the home, plenty of time to clean up what they did not want seen/known.

 

[RHR]

Isn't he putting up more reward money than all of his sisters combined?

He gave more to build an ice rink than he did for the reward.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Maybe there was a symbolic reason why their bodies were posed in that very specific part of the house as follows:
"In 1996, after the Shermans' North York home was completed following five years of construction, the couple was dissatisfied with the work done on it. In particular, they claimed that the garage, a structure with a tennis court on top and a basement lap pool and hot tub, was faulty; Sherman called it a "disaster". He and his wife filed twelve separate suits against all the contractors; ultimately they would recover almost the entire estimated $2.3 million cost of building the house through favorable judgments." Their bodies were found in the swimming pool part that was closest to all of the other parts as well like the hot tub, garage, and tennis court. Also, the part about the inspection papers being found by the door of the garage along with gloves being laid on top of the papers all so neatly. Was it both purposely posed as a symbolic message or just coincidence?

Note: IMO this 2.3 million "recovered" was the amount the judge agreed was the cost to fix the issues. IMO this is no win fall for the Sherman's. This was a concrete home, that took 5 years to build, if the foundation was shoddy, it needed to be fixed to be stable. If businesses went under because they had to cover the cost of the repairs, I am not sure the Sherman's are to blame. And why wait until it is to be sold decades later and bring attention to the area?

The symbolic thoughts that come to my mind so far are that the perp(s) had personal relations with both BS & HS and they were some what ashamed of what they had done, killing them or killing them both was not the initial reason to be there and placed them as far away from normal traffic to delay the find. But wanted to be sure they are found and left a trail of little objects & items that would be thought out of character for BS & HS and lead them to the basement.

IMO if the inspection papers were important to the staging, they would be out of the envelope and displayed.

 

[AddyFinch]

Placing of the bodies IMHO 1. a personal grudge against one or both, ie family, business associate
OR 2. perp has a sick sense of humour and zero personal attachment to either victim. ie hired killer.

On another note HS certainly has been painted of late as less than generous compassionate human, but rather hard nose with calculating intentions, along with MS. I like the theory that BS may have been the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and not part of the initial plan after all. Can't imagine a family member doing this violent physical act, unless truly psychotic. It would seem reasonable that if a family member was responsible, they ordered and paid for the hit.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Placing of the bodies IMHO 1. a personal grudge against one or both, ie family, business associate
OR 2. perp has a sick sense of humour and zero personal attachment to either victim. ie hired killer.

On another note HS certainly has been painted of late as less than generous compassionate human, but rather hard nose with calculating intentions, along with MS. I like the theory that BS may have been the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and not part of the initial plan after all. Can't imagine a family member doing this violent physical act, unless truly psychotic. It would seem reasonable that if a family member was responsible, they ordered and paid for the hit.

HS, MS, BS, JS, and probably more are or weren't nice people. This entire case has no sympathetic figure. The cousins were moochers. I'm not saying Honey and Barry deserved what happened to them but they really had a lot of enemies for the way they treated people.

If the killer truly was hired, he or she must have been really cocky and a bit stupid for sticking around as long as they did in a house where a lot of people were in and out. Honey wanted to see her sister and would have if MS hadn't been under the weather. I think she planned to stop over but the opposite could have happened.

 

[JayFriend]

HS, MS, BS, JS, and probably more are or weren't nice people. This entire case has no sympathetic figure. The cousins were moochers. I'm not saying Honey and Barry deserved what happened to them but they really had a lot of enemies for the way they treated people.

If the killer truly was hired, he or she must have been really cocky and a bit stupid for sticking around as long as they did in a house where a lot of people were in and out. Honey wanted to see her sister and would have if MS hadn't been under the weather. I think she planned to stop over but the opposite could have happened.

I agree. The "family" are a bunch of moochers and freeloaders. I would not be surprised one or more of them conspired to pull this of so they could become multi-millionaires.

 

[ldlager]

HS, MS, BS, JS, and probably more are or weren't nice people. This entire case has no sympathetic figure. The cousins were moochers. I'm not saying Honey and Barry deserved what happened to them but they really had a lot of enemies for the way they treated people.

If the killer truly was hired, he or she must have been really cocky and a bit stupid for sticking around as long as they did in a house where a lot of people were in and out. Honey wanted to see her sister and would have if MS hadn't been under the weather. I think she planned to stop over but the opposite could have happened.

MS claims to have been feeling under the weather. Do we know if this is true? It Didn’t stop her from jetting off to Florida the next morning it seems

 

[Sphinx]

I bet Honey didn't bother turning the alarm back on because Barry was on his way. They were so lax with security and even if they weren't, they might be the type of people to only turn it on at night when they go to bed or when they leave the house.

After reading that the NW was likely there over an hour, I also think they weren't killed immediately. That's exactly why they needed to bind their hands. So now it comes to why use the belts. If you've killed them and taken the ties away, what is the significance of hanging them by the railing when they could have just been left lying by the pool? What reason or benefit would there have been to do that?

I always thought that the murder was contracted, and supposed to look like a murder suicide so there would not be any further criminal investigation.

This could account for the hanging and staging, but why be so sloppy and leave a phone on the powder room floor, and even more importantly, Barry's pile of papers on the floor near the garage door? It might have been argued that Honey and Barry fought, and she dropped her phone then, but his papers tell another tale for sure. Maybe the person contracted to do the killings was not a really good professional, and that is why there were mistakes, like the narrow ligature on the necks indicating strangulation prior to hanging, and the marks on the wrists that showed up in the second autopsy, indicating that they had been restrained. Also no restraints were found in the house, nor anything that was obviously used to strangle them, like a silk scarf. It could be that whoever hired the killer, used someone close, with underworld or criminal connections, or with experience as a military professional, who had acted as an assassin in the past, who assured the person(s) hiring him that he was very experienced, and could pull it off flawlessly, for a very large amount of money, making it look like a murder suicide. Would this person(s) have to stalk them for one month before the killings, learning their routines, and being sure of routes etc. ? Perhaps, but it seemed they had lots of inside information about the travel plans of the Shermans, and a time when no one else would be in the house, as well as ways to enter and exit without the need to break in, although I think Greenspan's team did determine that the front door lock had been "spun" prior to the murders.

Like every crime, some things go wrong, and clues are left. IMO