CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[FPoulet]

What?!!

Alexandra found out something from Glasenberg? She stopped talking to JS in December, 2018 after something happened at Jonathon’s cottage.

I interpret the quote to mean that Jonathon’s criticism of AG about withholding information has contributed to the breakdown of his relationship with Alex S— given that Alex S likes and respects AG. Of course we know other things contributed to their relationship breakdown like Alex S’s suspicions of Jonathon.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

can someone "cliff notes" these latest stories? i believe all the articles relate to the same.development so should be similar

is there any documentation that any of this existed?

Why wouldn't a lawyer come forward and at least say there was a HS will at some time? some recent time?

My friend died with pretty large estate, fairly unconventional family life and no will... they scoured the landscape to find a will. contacted me "out of.the blue"... so they really tried.to find.a will

If none of any of this is documented, i don't think it has any standing whatsoever..i am sure.there are people.who tell others they will get money from will and then don't.. and don't.get me.wrong, alot of.times.it's laziness/inertia.that is.the culprit, not insincerity

Very unfortunate when both spouses die in short.order as i'd think often the surviving.spouse. makes a subsequent will that includes small bequests to relative and.maybe important friends

" small bequest" is the key.though. it might be nice and reasonable to inherit $50k from aunt/uncle worth $5mm.. not sure this scales very well though...

The latest article is about a lawsuit two Shechtman children (Honey’s sister Mary’s children) filed against about 25 relatives of the Shermans, primarily the trustees of a 2016 trust Barry had. It was discretionary so the three current trustees (AG, BK & JS) are the ones to decide what the Shechtman children receive. To date they say they haven’t been kept informed about the trust, so they’re suing for a report and also want the trustees replaced, among other things.

 

[ldlager]

Possibly, or at least - IMO - that's what the lawyers for the S family are hoping: that they've found a little doggie bag left over from the main meal, that maybe was neglected at the back of the fridge and they can get a piece of it.

However, IMO it wouldn't have been seen as a desireable asset ie motive for murder in 2017, since no one seems to have known about it, or its terms (given that the lawyers only contacted it in 2023).

JMO

MS and her husband knew about it. He was a Trustee back then

 

[FromGermany1]

I think you may have mixed up the names but you have the details right. Kaelen moved to Israel after a brief marriage and investing a hotel. Alex last we heard is still in the GTA.

Now this is, what I remember also. It seems, I'm not as confused as I just thought, haha.

 

[FromGermany1]

RSBM
I think you’re right. I think the issue is with what Mary either falsely believes or wants others to believe, imo. I think she believes* the Shermco shares increased in value by $500 million between 2016-2017 and she’s entitled to $300M. Honey had less that $50M when she died. Where did Mary get the $300-500M numbers from?

* KD has said he believes Mary is behind her children’s current lawsuit.

Did MS benefit from a "non-existent" Last Will of her sister most of all parties?
Weren't the entire family constellations in terms of assets constructed far too trustingly by BS?

 

[Sphinx]

Now this is, what I remember also. It seems, I'm not as confused as I just thought, haha.

Thank you for that correction, Lexi. Sorry I got two of the sisters mixed up. I wonder if Alexandra has hired some serious body guards, and protection? If she suspects that JS was involved in the deaths of their parents, I hope she has. She, like Kaelen is divorced, and must feel quite alone in this stressful mess. I did find an article in The Toronto Star in 2022 that showed a smiling Alexandra, who apparently is an accomplished folk singer, with a new record out. She was nominated for an award, and said that her music had helped her deal with the terrible deaths of her parents, and of course she does have her children. IMO

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

If they were up to something together, then the not communicating could be a smoke screen. They both would benefit greatly from the deaths of Honey and Barry. Also, I do not think BK came from great wealth, so inheriting could mean a great deal to him. Just some thoughts. We do not know why AK suspected JS of being involved, or why she divorced BK, and moved to Israel not too long after the murders. Again, who benefits the most? Follow the money. IMO

As far as I have read AK did not move to Israel, that was the younger sister KS that moved, AK and her children still live in the GTA. BK family is still here IMO AK would not take her children away from the only family she has left.

It is also posted that AK and BK remain very close and run a family foundation together and attend charity events together.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If this was an estate freeze in 2016 then all of the increase in value of Shermco shares after that date accrues to the trust. Were the shares of Apotex that BS owned before the trust was established included in the 2016 trust property As part of the estate freeze? If so, one would think that a significant portion of the sale proceeds of Apotex belongs to the 2016 trust, and not necessarily to BS‘ 4 children. I am wondering if the Sherman kids may have received hundreds of millions more that they might be legally entitled to?

I need someone to explain to me as if I were five how the trust works.

He had at least one more from 2000, so by 2021 the 21 year deemed disposition rule becomes a factor for that trust. If he had been alive he’d either have to sell the assets or pay taxes as if they had been sold, from what I understand.

In 2017 AG and JK were trying to convince Barry to sell Apotex. One person said he wanted to keep it going for five more years.

If the trusts were made in part to suspend paying taxes, at some point someone was going to have to.

What I don’t understand is if this is just a side story or if it could factor in as a motive for murder.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

I need someone to explain to me as if I were five how the trust works.

He had at least one more from 2000, so by 2021 the 21 year deemed disposition rule becomes a factor for that trust. If he had been alive he’d either have to sell the assets or pay taxes as if they had been sold, from what I understand.

In 2017 AG and JK were trying to convince Barry to sell Apotex. One person said he wanted to keep it going for five more years.

If the trusts were made in part to suspend paying taxes, at some point someone was going to have to.

What I don’t understand is if this is just a side story or if it could factor in as a motive for murder.

I think when you are dealing with literal billions, as the Sherman family was, it absolutely would be a factor.

I can absolutely imagine that if someone felt they received ‘little’ from a discretionary trust, was not given more, and yet knew that the trust was going to just be held onto to eventually have to pay out to the taxman, rather than distributing the funds?

Im going to add MOO, etc.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

If this was an estate freeze in 2016 then all of the increase in value of Shermco shares after that date accrues to the trust. Were the shares of Apotex that BS owned before the trust was established included in the 2016 trust property As part of the estate freeze? If so, one would think that a significant portion of the sale proceeds of Apotex belongs to the 2016 trust, and not necessarily to BS‘ 4 children. I am wondering if the Sherman kids may have received hundreds of millions more that they might be legally entitled to?

I think you have made a very good point here, @ldlager. Big question for our law people here : would the proceeds of the sale of Apotex have belonged to the 2016 trust? Or would there have had to have been a possible court case to decide this?

 

[ldlager]

I think you have made a very good point here, @ldlager. Big question for our law people here : would the proceeds of the sale of Apotex have belonged to the 2016 trust? Or would there have had to have been a possible court case to decide this?

IMO from what I have read the 2016 Trust was established pursuant to an estate freeze. The holdings of the Trust included Sherfam shares, annd I understand Sherfam held some or all of BS’ Apotex shares. So as Apotex increased in value after 2016 then one can assume that Sherfam also increased in value ( note- in fairness, we don’t know what other assets Sherfam owned and I guess it’s possible these other assets could have decreased in value to partially or totally offset the increase in the value of Sherfam’s Apotex shares). I believe the sale proceeds from Apotex would belong to or accrue to the Trust, in proportion to the proportion of all Apotex shares that were held by Sherfam in the Trust. For example if Sherfam owned 80% of Apotex common equity then 80% of the sale proceeds should belong to the Trust. IMO

 

[atomicsciencegal]

And an additional follow up question : if Apotex did belong to the 2016 trust, how much was that trust worth? If Apotex didn’t belong to it, how much was that 2016 trust worth?

edited to add, I’m less concerned about the precisely perfect dollar value held in those trusts, and more interested in generalities. If the sales proceeds of the Sherfam Apotex shares should be included in the 2016 trust then that is an absolutely massive difference in the discretionary trust account values for any money to be paid out.

 

[Cedars]

IMO from what I have read the 2016 Trust was established pursuant to an estate freeze. The holdings of the Trust included Sherfam shares, annd I understand Sherfam held some or all of BS’ Apotex shares. So as Apotex increased in value after 2016 then one can assume that Sherfam also increased in value ( note- in fairness, we don’t know what other assets Sherfam owned and I guess it’s possible these other assets could have decreased in value to partially or totally offset the increase in the value of Sherfam’s Apotex shares). I believe the sale proceeds from Apotex would belong to or accrue to the Trust, in proportion to the proportion of all Apotex shares that were held by Sherfam in the Trust. For example if Sherfam owned 80% of Apotex common equity then 80% of the sale proceeds should belong to the Trust. IMO

Does Sherfam still exist? Wouldn't it have been dissolved to wind up the estate and transfer the Apotex shares to the 4 heirs?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Does Sherfam still exist? Wouldn't it have been dissolved to wind up the estate and transfer the Apotex shares to the 4 heirs?

The latest information is that AG still heads it. It seems BK is also still there.

It has other holdings including $2B in a Bahamas bank, according to KD.

 

[FPoulet]

We do not have enough information to know how much if any of Apotex value acrued to the trust. We know that the trust held 1000 Shermco shares. I believe Shermco has an ownership interest in Sherfam. But we don’t know how many other outstanding shares exist- ie what ratio of ownership is this?

If it were a typical estate freeze, done by Barry, the value of the underlying assets would be frozen at the date of the freeze and be held outside the trust by Barry or his holdco and only the future growth of the underlying assets would accrue to the trust.

So, for example, if the Barry’s aasets to be frozen were worth $100 million in 2016, that value would be frozen into preferred shares owned by Barry/his holdco worth $100 million. The new 1000 Shermco shares owned by the trust would have no value on that freeze date. The growth in value of the company after the freeze date in 2016 (and beyond the frozen $100 million) would flow to the shares owned by the trust.

The twins are saying those shares grew in value by $500 million in that year until death. I don’t know why they stop at date of death. Normally a trust would continue. Maybe this means something in the trust deed pins this at death? I don’t know.

All MOO.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

We do not have enough information to know how much if any of Apotex value acrued to the trust. We know that the trust held 1000 Shermco shares. I believe Shermco has an ownership interest in Sherfam. But we don’t know how many other outstanding shares exist- ie what ratio of ownership is this?

If it were a typical estate freeze, done by Barry, the value of the underlying assets would be frozen at the date of the freeze and be held outside the trust by Barry or his holdco and only the future growth of the underlying assets would accrue to the trust.

So, for example, if the Barry’s aasets to be frozen were worth $100 million in 2016, that value would be frozen into preferred shares owned by Barry/his holdco worth $100 million. The new 1000 Shermco shares owned by the trust would have no value on that freeze date. The growth in value of the company after the freeze date in 2016 (and beyond the frozen $100 million) would flow to the shares owned by the trust.

The twins are saying those shares grew in value by $500 million in that year until death. I don’t know why they stop at date of death. Normally a trust would continue. Maybe this means something in the trust deed pins this at death? I don’t know.

All MOO.

The twins are saying those shares grew in value by $500 million in that year until death. I don’t know why they stop at date of death. Normally a trust would continue. Maybe this means something in the trust deed pins this at death? I don’t know.

I think they highlighted that period because their father AS was an estate trustee during that period and would have been aware of the growth and value of the 2016 trust, imo. After the spring of 2017 he may not have known. (Possibly Honey kept Mary updated.)

 

[Cedars]

I think they highlighted that period because their father AS was an estate trustee during that period and would have been aware of the growth and value of the 2016 trust, imo. After the spring of 2017 he may not have known. (Possibly Honey kept Mary updated.)

However, you can't just check a daily index to determine the fluctuating value of private shares. My impression is determining share value for a private company is a fairly complicated thing, involving computations in the company's accounting department and perhaps using industry comparatives, etc. Would they do that so soon after the 2016 valuation?

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

However, you can't just check a daily index to determine the fluctuating value of private shares. My impression is determining share value for a private company is a fairly complicated thing, involving computations in the company's accounting department and perhaps using industry comparatives, etc. Would they do that so soon after the 2016 valuation?

JMO

I was wrong in how I stated it.

Ann Brocklehurst has posted the documents on her substack (which is great!) Cv 23 00711798 00es Notice Of Application Dec 13 2023 (1):


I personally think the $500M figure comes from Mary’s husband because he was an estate trustee until spring of 2017. She had that $500M in mind on December 15th, 2017, and my belief is she was thinking of this trust and what it was valued at that time. (All my view only.)

KD believes Mary is behind this lawsuit and it sounds like her voice to me. Especially when it comes to the area that addresses personal conflicts.

More sections:

 

[Cedars]

I personally think the $500M figure comes from Mary’s husband because he was an estate trustee until spring of 2017. She had that $500M in mind on December 15th, 2017, and my belief is she was thinking of this trust and what it was valued at that time. (All my view only.)

Thanks. That could be, although, in my cynical view, the $500 mil could be just a nice round number originally pulled out of the air, which has now been inserted into this legal document because none of them have a clue but there's no law against having high hopes (as Barry's cousins demonstrated with their lawsuits.)

JMO

 

[FPoulet]

The estimated value could be based on a rate of growth on whatever the base (frozen) assets were worth at the time of the freeze too.