CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[kateferg]

Good question! And I wonder why the shoe soles had dirt on them in December? I think the family confirmed that was in the habit of wearing these slip-on shoes around the house. Usually, indoor shoes don't have dirt imbedded in the soles because people avoid wearing them outside, no?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

What I found interesting in KD's latest podcast was the number of calls and emails that came through after they both came home. Workaholics and busy people don't usually turn their phones off just because they are home for the night. I think that really tightens up the timeline and points to them being killed quite quickly.

It's also interesting to note that JS emailed his dad and said he just got home from Japan when he had already been back for a couple of days.

I also have been puzzled about HS' slip on shoes being on her feet and not scattered about as she was dragged. I wonder if they were put on afterward as part of the staging.

One thing that really struck me is the grief from Honey's friends and from JK. It is still so real and raw. Then I compare it to JS' eulogy which had a lot of sniffling and no tears.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Good question! And I wonder why the shoe soles had dirt on them in December? I think the family confirmed that was in the habit of wearing these slip-on shoes around the house. Usually, indoor shoes don't have dirt imbedded in the soles because people avoid wearing them outside, no?

I thought I had read that she wore them in and around the house but I can't remember where. I wear my crocs mostly inside but do sometimes where them outside, putting garbage out or on the deck so she may have also not had a hard and fast rule about it either. MOO.

 

[dotr]

April 14 2023

King and Queen Sherman

Hosted by Kevin Donovan, this is episode four of the podcast series “The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman.”

www.thestar.com

''King and Queen''
''Barry Sherman — the generous, the brilliant, the tough negotiator. Honey Sherman — the ferocious, the brave, the fundraiser. It was love at first sight when they met in the 1970s. Together they raised a family and built a business. Honey’s roots were in the Holocaust and Barry’s in a family where the men died young.

This is episode four of “The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman,” a “Suspicion” podcast probing the strange case of the famous Toronto couple who were found strangled in their north Toronto home in 2017. For five years, veteran investigative reporter Kevin Donovan has covered the case for the Star, fought court battles to access documents on the police investigation and the Sherman estate, and wrote a book about it.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

After listening to KD's latest podcast, something incongruous struck me.

KD says HS was found with open backed shoes on her feet. He also said there were scuff marks on the pool deck between the doorway and the railing, and the pool deck hadn't been cleaned for about 3 weeks. He says the LE theory is that the scuff marks were caused by HS' shoes as she was being dragged by her upper body across the poolroom floor to the railing. He states that LE found that the back bottom of HS shoes had dirt on them and were scuffed up, and these markings were consistent with marks that would have been left with her being dragged across the floor.

I am no expert in women's shoes. But I have to wonder- if HS was wearing open backed shoes, and was dragged all the way across the pool room by someone holding her upper body, wouldn't her shoes have fallen off as she was being dragged? If so: 1) what caused the scuff marks; and
2) did the killer put her shoes on after she was suspended from the railing?

Perhaps someone familiar with how such shoes fit could provide some clarity
Thanks

My best guesses:

—Possibly the shoes had an adjustable strap and her feet were on an angle when dragged. This is the type of shoe I’m thinking of:

https://www.amazon.ca/Diabetic-Slippers-Arthritis-Adjustable-Flatfoot/dp/B09Z1VVRSX

- Or she was and alive and conscious when dragged and managed to keep them on.

-dark, dusty slate tiles scuff up easily, imo. Maybe she was dragged to the position she was found in and the shoes did slip off but the killer put them back on her feet.

-random guess, but maybe the killer changed her shoes once he positioned her in the pool room? The scuff marks may have been made with the footwear she wore out that day and he changed them into the slip on shoes she was known to wear indoors.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I thought I had read that she wore them in and around the house but I can't remember where. I wear my crocs mostly inside but do sometimes where them outside, putting garbage out or on the deck so she may have also not had a hard and fast rule about it either. MOO.

You’re right, her daughter AK told police she wore slip on shoes in and around the home. In an older Toronto Life article the journalist wrote that she was wearing crocs.

 

[deugirtni]

Good question! And I wonder why the shoe soles had dirt on them in December? I think the family confirmed that was in the habit of wearing these slip-on shoes around the house. Usually, indoor shoes don't have dirt imbedded in the soles because people avoid wearing them outside, no?

Even if H wore them outside the odd time, it would still be weird to have dirt embedded in them. Not to be sexist, but if women are wearing their 'indoor shoes', it's highly unlikely they'd be walking around in the mud/dirt. imo, of course.

 

[dotr]

The shoes are shown to have a 'back', but wondering now if HS was wearing socks?

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The shoes are shown to have a 'back', but wondering now if HS was wearing socks?

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

View attachment 414713

Her wearing socks would make sense. The artist put a bit more detail in the most recent diagram she drew:

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

 

[FromGermany1]

Her wearing socks would make sense. The artist put a bit more detail in the most recent diagram she drew:
View attachment 414718

Large amount of cash found in Honey and Barry Sherman’s wallets ruled out a break-in

When the discovery of money and portable valuables made a robbery seem unlikely, police formed a theory that the Shermans died in a murder-suicide.

www.thestar.com

To me it now looks like carpet slippers, easy to put back on, if they fell off first during dragging the body along the floor.

 

[dotr]

Recap: Reader Q&A about Honey and Barry Sherman case with Kevin Donovan

Kevin Donovan, host of “The Billionaire Murders” podcast, answered your questions live on the Honey and Barry Sherman murder case.

www.thestar.com

April 14, 2023 Article was updated 26 mins ago rbbm.
''Investigative reporter Kevin Donovan has spent years trying to unravel the mystery surrounding the murders of Toronto couple Honey and Barry Sherman.

As host of “The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman,” podcast series, Donovan has shared inside details of his probe into the strange case of the famous Toronto couple who were found strangled in their north Toronto home in 2017.
Now, Donovan will answer reader questions about the case, live.
Check this page on Monday, April 17 at 1 p.m. to post your questions in the comment section, below the “Join the Conversation,” heading, and watch for Donovan’s replies.
To post a comment, register for a free account on thestar.com by choosing “Sign In” in the top right corner.''

 

[ldlager]

To me it now looks like carpet slippers, easy to put back on, if they fell off first during dragging the body along the floor.

But if they fell off, what caused the scuff marks on the floor?

 

[newclues]

Ah, so I searched for this commentator Lisa Gabriel, and she's a producer of the podcast and apparently on WS.

"LISA GABRIEL: Yeah. We are on web sluths where I have a pseudonym and I use this every day to kind of, like, mess around and see who's doing what.

KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: What's your pseudonym?

LISA GABRIEL: But we don't want them to know that that's me."

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/the-no-good-terribly-kind-wonderful-lives-and-tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman-ep-6-transcript-1.6793338

Any suggestions who she might be? (Altho you've been posting the podcast Dotr, I don't suspect you!).

Is KD posting on here too? JS?

Well, I'll confess: I'm a detective from TPS, trying to steer this vital crime-solving forum in the right direction, to find out the truth of what really happened, because it's clearly beyond us incompetent police. It's up to the media and random members of the public with too much time on their hands.

JMO

Are you a verified LE member on here?

 

[newclues]

I'm sorry Dotr if my comment stung you, you were not my target.

I am impatient with how many who look at this case express contempt for LE and presume their own superiority in solving crimes. Family, media, public.

None of them ever say "when I solved the similar x crime, I chose to use y technique and it was successful because...".

TPS has solved many, many murders. Just because these victims were richer than others makes no difference. That they haven't solved this one says more about whomever committed it, than about TPS, IMO.

JMO

It appears that many people want to know more about this case and most of the information that we know has come from the media like KD's articles and his book. Much of KD's information has come through unsealing court documents and interviewing Sherman family and friends.

In addition, I am certain that there are people on this thread who would qualify as Verified Insiders but choose not to disclose their true Identity, or their relationship to the case, the company, or the Sherman family.

Another aspect of this website is the private conversations going on which are by invitation only.

 

[FromGermany1]

But if they fell off, what caused the scuff marks on the floor?

Could scuff marks have been of an older date? After all, it was an old floor covering. Or could it have been, something scratchy was connected to a leg/foot during dragging and only discovered by the killer, when he just began his staging-work? Something like a not so small earring or similar ....?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

But if they fell off, what caused the scuff marks on the floor?

I know with some brain injuries there is abnormal posturing, and the feet can flex downward. (We don’t know her condition when she was brought into the pool room, so this is just theory.)

‘Abnormal posturing is an involuntary flexionor extension of the arms and legs, indicating severe brain injury. It occurs when one set of muscles becomes incapacitated while the opposing set is not, and an external stimulussuch as pain causes the working set of muscles to contract.[1] The posturing may also occur without a stimulus.[2][failed verification]Since posturing is an important indicator of the amount of damage that has occurred to the brain, it is used by medical professionals to measure the severity of a coma with the Glasgow Coma Scale (for adults) and the Pediatric Glasgow Coma Scale (for infants).’

Abnormal posturing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Don’t tell the CBC, but I experimented with some slip on shoes with my felt flexed downward. The shoes didn’t come off. The downward pressure kept them on.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

If anyone is planning to ask KD a question - and I'm not sure he would answer this or want to answer - does he know the relative heights of JS, AP or KW? The NW was around 5'6" to 5'9". If these 3 fall considerably above or below these heights that would rule them out. I'm guessing the police already have this info but I'm curious.

 

[newclues]

If anyone is planning to ask KD a question - and I'm not sure he would answer this or want to answer - does he know the relative heights of JS, AP or KW? The NW was around 5'6" to 5'9". If these 3 fall considerably above or below these heights that would rule them out. I'm guessing the police already have this info but I'm curious.

Both JS and KW appear to be taller. AP, FDA and JK may be within this range.

 

[deugirtni]

If anyone is planning to ask KD a question - and I'm not sure he would answer this or want to answer - does he know the relative heights of JS, AP or KW? The NW was around 5'6" to 5'9". If these 3 fall considerably above or below these heights that would rule them out. I'm guessing the police already have this info but I'm curious.

It may rule people out as being 'the walking man', but it doesn't rule them out as anything else. It seems LE may be thinking this 'walking man' was a 'hired man', and not the only person that would be charged with the murders. imo.

The Star asked Price if investigators had compared this image to all of those people to see they could exclude them by their height and walk characteristics.

Price said he could not exclude anybody with 100 per cent certainty, because even if a person was ruled out as the person in the video, that person could have been involved in some way.

The inside story of how Toronto police zeroed in the Sherman murder ‘suspect’ with the odd gait

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If anyone is planning to ask KD a question - and I'm not sure he would answer this or want to answer - does he know the relative heights of JS, AP or KW? The NW was around 5'6" to 5'9". If these 3 fall considerably above or below these heights that would rule them out. I'm guessing the police already have this info but I'm curious.

It’s a good question to ask.

KD said in an interview that he knows who the POIs are in the case and they’re all taller than the suspect. He hasn’t said who they are yet, but I think we can guess who most of them are, imo.