CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[AndrewM71]

Reading about the trust litigation and NS, I often think that the fact that some people anticipated a $300 million bequest in Honey’s purported will is the key to everything.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

New here so hope I'm following proper etiquette! Listened to the CBC podcast today and have been reading old news articles as well as this forum. One thing that I can't quite understand is why both victims' hands would have been bound while they were alive.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

In this article, DK writes "It is possible, sources say, that as Barry walked out of the garage door he saw Honey (who was likely already dead) in the hall and then Barry was attacked and killed, dropping his gloves and the home inspection report. Under this theory, both Shermans were then moved to the pool room. At some point during the attacks, both were restrained at the wrists while they were alive, as a forensic investigation would later show."

I would think that if they were killed at separate times (i.e. not dealing with subduing two people at once), binding their hands wouldn't serve much purpose. Why bind their hands at all before killing them? Binding someone's hands would seem to suggest that you're trying to stop someone from getting away. In other words, why go through the trouble of binding someone's wrists just to strangulate them - especially two elderly people who probably couldn't put up much of a fight? Binding someone's writs would be much harder than just strangulating someone if that person was conscious and trying to resist/fight back I would think? Did the killer(s) try to obtain some sort of information from them before they were murdered?

Welcome, that’s a good question!

I think it could be what you suggested. I think some guesses have been that:

-they were restrained to subdue them and releasing them was a ‘curtesy’ to make them think the killer was not there to harm them. (A bargaining move if they wanted something, as you suggested.)
-they were restrained so that they couldn’t fight back or escape easily. If, for example, their hands were bound behind them and they were made to sit with their legs crossed it’s difficult to stand up, imo. I also don’t think the killer wanted to risk being scratched, injured or risk evidence transfer.

KD suggested zip ties could have been used and if that’s true I think it would be fairly easy to restrain them, imo.

 

[dotr]

New here so hope I'm following proper etiquette! Listened to the CBC podcast today and have been reading old news articles as well as this forum. One thing that I can't quite understand is why both victims' hands would have been bound while they were alive.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

In this article, DK writes "It is possible, sources say, that as Barry walked out of the garage door he saw Honey (who was likely already dead) in the hall and then Barry was attacked and killed, dropping his gloves and the home inspection report. Under this theory, both Shermans were then moved to the pool room. At some point during the attacks, both were restrained at the wrists while they were alive, as a forensic investigation would later show."

I would think that if they were killed at separate times (i.e. not dealing with subduing two people at once), binding their hands wouldn't serve much purpose. Why bind their hands at all before killing them? Binding someone's hands would seem to suggest that you're trying to stop someone from getting away. In other words, why go through the trouble of binding someone's wrists just to strangulate them - especially two elderly people who probably couldn't put up much of a fight? Binding someone's writs would be much harder than just strangulating someone if that person was conscious and trying to resist/fight back I would think? Did the killer(s) try to obtain some sort of information from them before they were murdered?

Welcome to Ws!
Maybe ties were used to restrain their arms as they were forced toward the final position at the pool railing?
imo, speculation.

 

[dotr]

Reading about the trust litigation and NS, I often think that the fact that some people anticipated a $300 million bequest in Honey’s purported will is the key to everything.

rbbm.

Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle

Jonathon Sherman, wearing a boxy black suit and narrow tie, separated from his three sisters and crossed the floor of the convention centre-turned funeral home, walking stone-faced toward a row

www.toronto.com

''One family member who has been completely shut out is Mary Shechtman, Honey’s sister and best friend, who had hoped to play an important role in the Sherman philanthropy. A comment she made following the murders, that Honey promised her a $300 million gift (she told me it was really $500 million but she decided to give the lower figure), upset the four Sherman children.''

 

[Charlot123]

I know with some brain injuries there is abnormal posturing, and the feet can flex downward. (We don’t know her condition when she was brought into the pool room, so this is just theory.)
View attachment 414930
‘Abnormal posturing is an involuntary flexionor extension of the arms and legs, indicating severe brain injury. It occurs when one set of muscles becomes incapacitated while the opposing set is not, and an external stimulussuch as pain causes the working set of muscles to contract.[1] The posturing may also occur without a stimulus.[2][failed verification]Since posturing is an important indicator of the amount of damage that has occurred to the brain, it is used by medical professionals to measure the severity of a coma with the Glasgow Coma Scale (for adults) and the Pediatric Glasgow Coma Scale (for infants).’

Abnormal posturing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Don’t tell the CBC, but I experimented with some slip on shoes with my felt flexed downward. The shoes didn’t come off. The downward pressure kept them on.

I haven’t read much into the case yet, but noticed that Honey had crippling arthritis, needing several surgeries and occasionally, some form of support. If, indeed, the arthritis was so bad, could it have led to feet/ankles deformations or ankylosis, thus preventing the shoes from slipping off?

 

[FromGermany1]

Why bind their hands at all before killing them? Binding someone's hands would seem to suggest that you're trying to stop someone from getting away. In other words, why go through the trouble of binding someone's wrists just to strangulate them - especially two elderly people who probably couldn't put up much of a fight? Binding someone's writs would be much harder than just strangulating someone if that person was conscious and trying to resist/fight back I would think? Did the killer(s) try to obtain some sort of information from them before they were murdered?

bbm
I think so. Just now a lightbulb lights up: afaik, we never heard of either victim's mouth being taped shut ...., not when they were found, not before the hanging onto the railing. It might perhaps be, that the killer asked them for a special information until the end. MOO

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I haven’t read much into the case yet, but noticed that Honey had crippling arthritis, needing several surgeries and occasionally, some form of support. If, indeed, the arthritis was so bad, could it have led to feet/ankles deformations or ankylosis, thus preventing the shoes from slipping off?

I have wondered about this as well.

 

[deugirtni]

I haven't ever (to memory) read that BS was invested into the Order of Canada... does anyone know if that ever occurred? In earlier articles they were saying it was likely to happen sometime in 2018 and the family was talking about getting together to accept the award on B's behalf?

| The Governor General of Canada

www.gg.ca

eta:

A Rideau Hall spokeswoman says a family member can stand in for Sherman at the investiture ceremony, likely some time in 2018. Barry Sherman, founder of Apotex, among list of inductees into Order of Canada | Globalnews.ca

On January 19, 2022 KD wrote:

The award was never handed out. Sherman daughter Alexandra told her three siblings (Jonathon, Lauren and Kaelen) in an email in the spring of 2019 that she was hopeful a date could be arranged with Ottawa officials and “hopefully we can all travel to Ottawa and receive the Order on behalf of dad, together.” To date, that has not happened.

Barry Sherman owed $1 billion and was not going to pay, police documents reveal

Newly unsealed documents reveal what Sherman family, friends and business associates told homicide detectives.

www.thestar.com

 

[deugirtni]

Jonathon showed up personally to evict her from that storage unit. I wonder if she left him a bad Yelp review.

Lexiintoronto, have you happened to come across any yelp reviews out there that could potentially be from MS?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Does anyone know what hard drive he was referring to?

Also, interesting that JS said he would arrange for AP to talk to KD but it's never happened. I wonder about his situation. I know he comes from a family business that was very profitable but the last person in that family sold it and retired a few years ago. While I'm sure he had a very nice life growing up, I wonder if he had big money of his own or if he was relying on JS and BS.

History of his family's company

It appears the company was sold years before the Sherman murders. The Hillman group purchased Paulin in 2013. Paulin was on the Toronto Stock Exchange so I am in the opinion the family had money but not the amounts the Sherman's had.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

It appears the company was sold years before the Sherman murders. The Hillman group purchased Paulin in 2013. Paulin was on the Toronto Stock Exchange so I am in the opinion the family had money but not the amounts the Sherman's had.

They were very successful but definitely not as wealthy as the Shermans. Also, Richard Paulin retired a few years ago and from what I've seen is still alive. Arthur Paulin died in 1999, he was the president for year. Stanley Paulin was a VP when Arthur was president. So who knows if they have actually given their kids much money. I posted about that location because I was surprised at who now owned it. There is a second storage company right across the street but with a different owner.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Lexiintoronto, have you happened to come across any yelp reviews out there that could potentially be from MS?

No, my guess is she bypassed yelp and told KD about it.

 

[dotr]

Random notings..
Surprised that not only was the pool less than clean (not done in 3 weeks) but the garage looked surprisingly scummy too, most would still be happy at the $200K under asking price, imo, speculation.

Did HS favour some g.kids over others considering she wanted to live closer to one set of them?

Forgot that HS was ''not feeling well'', could that be the reason she did not attend the charity meeting, could there have been a new health issue?

2022 rbbm.

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

''Markings on the Shermans’ wrists revealed they’d been bound while alive. Plus, there were thin ligature marks around their necks, under the belts that were holding them in a seated position beside their swimming pool. The belts were used to stage, not kill them.''
''Why did the Sherman family and their team not simply give their autopsy results to the police?''

''I often get asked if I have a theory on who did it. I do. I believe the police do as well. But a theory without evidence is, well, just a theory.''

''Tuesday, Dec. 12, 2017
Barry Sherman was disappointed. A $6.7 million offer had just come in for their house at 50 Old Colony Rd., $200,000 under the asking price.''

''He’d only agreed to sell the home where they had raised four children to please Honey. She’d convinced him to build a $30-40 million home in Forest Hill, closer to daughter Alexandra and their two grandchildren.''

''Looking around the home where they raised four children, Barry would have noticed it was tidier than normal. All Tuesday a team of “declutterers” had gone through the 12,000-square-foot house, boxing up donations for the Salvation Army, and donating a few items to Honey’s personal assistant and their housekeeper. Honey was supervising, though not feeling well.''

''That Tuesday night, as Kerry told me, he was at Teplitsky’s home signing some legal papers as part of an appeal. Out of the blue, Kerry said to his lawyer that he was surprised that Barry never settled the lawsuit.
“I said, ‘Brad, do you think it’s ever crossed Barry’s mind that my brother Jeffrey could go off the deep end and kill him?’ ”

 

[deugirtni]

Random notings..
Surprised that not only was the pool less than clean (not done in 3 weeks) but the garage looked surprisingly scummy too, most would still be happy at the $200K under asking price, imo, speculation.

Did HS favour some g.kids over others considering she wanted to live closer to one set of them?

Forgot that HS was ''not feeling well'', could that be the reason she did not attend the charity meeting, could there have been a new health issue?

2022 rbbm.

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

''Markings on the Shermans’ wrists revealed they’d been bound while alive. Plus, there were thin ligature marks around their necks, under the belts that were holding them in a seated position beside their swimming pool. The belts were used to stage, not kill them.''
''Why did the Sherman family and their team not simply give their autopsy results to the police?''

''I often get asked if I have a theory on who did it. I do. I believe the police do as well. But a theory without evidence is, well, just a theory.''

''Tuesday, Dec. 12, 2017
Barry Sherman was disappointed. A $6.7 million offer had just come in for their house at 50 Old Colony Rd., $200,000 under the asking price.''

''He’d only agreed to sell the home where they had raised four children to please Honey. She’d convinced him to build a $30-40 million home in Forest Hill, closer to daughter Alexandra and their two grandchildren.''

''Looking around the home where they raised four children, Barry would have noticed it was tidier than normal. All Tuesday a team of “declutterers” had gone through the 12,000-square-foot house, boxing up donations for the Salvation Army, and donating a few items to Honey’s personal assistant and their housekeeper. Honey was supervising, though not feeling well.''

''That Tuesday night, as Kerry told me, he was at Teplitsky’s home signing some legal papers as part of an appeal. Out of the blue, Kerry said to his lawyer that he was surprised that Barry never settled the lawsuit.
“I said, ‘Brad, do you think it’s ever crossed Barry’s mind that my brother Jeffrey could go off the deep end and kill him?’ ”
View attachment 415746

My guess is that the new house had easier access for their aging bodies, as far as getting upstairs, etc.... and also perhaps more space for entertaining politically? I forget how many parking space were going to be in the new design, compared to their current residence?

The grandkids... at the time, they only had three.. one of whom lived on the opposite side of the country.. and it's doubtful H would've been happy living in the boonies where her son resided (not to mention that they apparently didn't have a great relationship?).. IIRC, wasn't the new home also closer to H's sister's home?

Yes, hard to believe that B balked at accepting that offer for $200K less than asking?? Did he already think he was being shortchanged with its full asking price? Is it possible (not likely??) that he, like so many other parents(?) may have had feelings of nostalgia leaving the home where all of their kids were raised?

In a recent podcast/article(?) by KD, he said that H had asked MS to get together on that fateful evening, but that MS was feeling under the weather, and so she declined and said she'd meet up with her in FL, and that she'd be haunted by that decision.. ? (If someone knows where to locate that bit, can you please post it, otherwise I'll look for it later this evening.) So it seemed that although H may have been feeling a bit under the weather on the Tuesday, she was back at em the next day, with her personal appointment(s), meeting with the architects, shopping afterward, and wanting to get together with her sister? Maybe MS caught whatever bug H had had the day before?

 

[WINDSOR]

New here so hope I'm following proper etiquette! Listened to the CBC podcast today and have been reading old news articles as well as this forum. One thing that I can't quite understand is why both victims' hands would have been bound while they were alive.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

In this article, DK writes "It is possible, sources say, that as Barry walked out of the garage door he saw Honey (who was likely already dead) in the hall and then Barry was attacked and killed, dropping his gloves and the home inspection report. Under this theory, both Shermans were then moved to the pool room. At some point during the attacks, both were restrained at the wrists while they were alive, as a forensic investigation would later show."

I would think that if they were killed at separate times (i.e. not dealing with subduing two people at once), binding their hands wouldn't serve much purpose. Why bind their hands at all before killing them? Binding someone's hands would seem to suggest that you're trying to stop someone from getting away. In other words, why go through the trouble of binding someone's wrists just to strangulate them - especially two elderly people who probably couldn't put up much of a fight? Binding someone's writs would be much harder than just strangulating someone if that person was conscious and trying to resist/fight back I would think? Did the killer(s) try to obtain some sort of information from them before they were murdered?

You bind their hands...........

• To control them, and their movements.
• To minimize the chance of a struggle, an escape or an injury to the perp.
• Has a calming effect on the victim, they tend to accept their fate when they are bound.
• Much more easy to lead and control when hands bound.
• There is no good reason not to bind the hands of a victim.

 

[WINDSOR]

My guess is that the new house had easier access for their aging bodies, as far as getting upstairs, etc.... and also perhaps more space for entertaining politically? I forget how many parking space were going to be in the new design, compared to their current residence?

The grandkids... at the time, they only had three.. one of whom lived on the opposite side of the country.. and it's doubtful H would've been happy living in the boonies where her son resided (not to mention that they apparently didn't have a great relationship?).. IIRC, wasn't the new home also closer to H's sister's home?

Yes, hard to believe that B balked at accepting that offer for $200K less than asking?? Did he already think he was being shortchanged with its full asking price? Is it possible (not likely??) that he, like so many other parents(?) may have had feelings of nostalgia leaving the home where all of their kids were raised?

In a recent podcast/article(?) by KD, he said that H had asked MS to get together on that fateful evening, but that MS was feeling under the weather, and so she declined and said she'd meet up with her in FL, and that she'd be haunted by that decision.. ? (If someone knows where to locate that bit, can you please post it, otherwise I'll look for it later this evening.) So it seemed that although H may have been feeling a bit under the weather on the Tuesday, she was back at em the next day, with her personal appointment(s), meeting with the architects, shopping afterward, and wanting to get together with her sister? Maybe MS caught whatever bug H had had the day before?

Maybe Barry rejected the offer for other reasons than the offer being $200,000.00 under asking.

Remember in Ontario the vendor can legally refuse any offer, even if it meets the asking price.

Let's not get hung up on the $200 grand shortfall, that makes Barry look miserly.
He could have rejected the offer because of the closing date requested by the purchaser.
He could have rejected the offer because it was conditional on the purchaser getting financing.
He could have rejected the offer because the purchaser wanted Barry to take back a second mortgage.
These are just a few reasons why offers are rejected.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

My guess is that the new house had easier access for their aging bodies, as far as getting upstairs, etc.... and also perhaps more space for entertaining politically? I forget how many parking space were going to be in the new design, compared to their current residence?

The grandkids... at the time, they only had three.. one of whom lived on the opposite side of the country.. and it's doubtful H would've been happy living in the boonies where her son resided (not to mention that they apparently didn't have a great relationship?).. IIRC, wasn't the new home also closer to H's sister's home?

Yes, hard to believe that B balked at accepting that offer for $200K less than asking?? Did he already think he was being shortchanged with its full asking price? Is it possible (not likely??) that he, like so many other parents(?) may have had feelings of nostalgia leaving the home where all of their kids were raised?

In a recent podcast/article(?) by KD, he said that H had asked MS to get together on that fateful evening, but that MS was feeling under the weather, and so she declined and said she'd meet up with her in FL, and that she'd be haunted by that decision.. ? (If someone knows where to locate that bit, can you please post it, otherwise I'll look for it later this evening.) So it seemed that although H may have been feeling a bit under the weather on the Tuesday, she was back at em the next day, with her personal appointment(s), meeting with the architects, shopping afterward, and wanting to get together with her sister? Maybe MS caught whatever bug H had had the day before?

At about the 9:43 mark of episode 3 (‘The Day They Died’) of KD’s podcast he said as Honey left Apotex on Wednesday she called Mary. So sometime between leaving the meeting at 6:15 and when she made her last known phone call to a friend at 6:21.

 

[kateferg]

BS & HS treated many like family, imo. rbbm.

Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle

Jonathon Sherman, wearing a boxy black suit and narrow tie, separated from his three sisters and crossed the floor of the convention centre-turned funeral home, walking stone-faced toward a row

www.toronto.com

''It was not just the four children who benefitted from Barry’s success. Friends, and children of friends, were provided with money for education and houses. The families of both Barry’s sister and Honey’s sister were also given financial help. For example, according to documents in a lawsuit filed by the son of Honey’s sister Mary Shechtman (he is seeking information on the Shechtman family trust and a court order removing Mary and her husband Allen Shechtman as trustees and replacing them with a corporate trust company), the Shechtman trust owns 17 houses. Insiders say those were purchased with Barry’s assistance over the years.

Barry wrote to her mother in the 1970s for monies advanced when he was starting out in business. It is an IOU she has not been able to collect on. So frosty is her relationship with the Sherman children that Jonathon evicted her last fall (he said his father had given her a rent-free unit but the management company he hired insisted that Mary pay rental) from a storage unit his self-storage company owns in Ajax. Mary’s spending habits were mentioned in passing in the police search warrant-documents released following a Star court challenge. Honey’s assistant was quoted as telling police that while Honey never spent much money on her credit card “it was Mary who spent a lot of money at U.S. Saks and Barry was never to see those bills.”

''One filing in the court action Mary’s son Noah has against his mother and father provides a tiny snapshot of the widespread use of the “Bank of Barry,” or, in this case, the Bank of Honey.

In October 2017, two months before the murders, Noah was in Florida with his husband and he emailed his Aunt Honey saying he wanted to buy new clothes.''

I agree, but from my understanding, what is important in the case of parricide is whether the offender considered B and H as parental figures or not and whether the offender has unmet parental expectations (ex. love, care, money) toward the victims.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

They were very successful but definitely not as wealthy as the Shermans. Also, Richard Paulin retired a few years ago and from what I've seen is still alive. Arthur Paulin died in 1999, he was the president for year. Stanley Paulin was a VP when Arthur was president. So who knows if they have actually given their kids much money. I posted about that location because I was surprised at who now owned it. There is a second storage company right across the street but with a different owner.

It is interesting.

 

[FromGermany1]

Tragic Passing of Canadian Billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman (Apotex)

Apotex founder Barry Sherman and his wife, Honey Sherman, were discovered dead at their home on December 15, 2017.

discover.hubpages.com

The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners' house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.

The next day, when news surfaced late in the afternoon of the Shermans' bodies being discovered, one of the homeowners happened to be driving near Toronto Police Services 33 Division (the local division that was at the time investigating the Shermans' deaths before the homicide unit took over). The homeowner went in to make a report, wanting to alert them to the fact a police officer had been on Old Colony Rd. the day before.

"It was just too much of a coincidence and I thought police should know," the homeowner told the Star. That Friday night at the police division, the homeowner was told by police that "maybe some wires were crossed" and that is why it appeared a 911 call had been made.

marked by me

Imagine, the uniformed officer was NW himself?