CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[Ozoner]

I don't think this one is a big mystery. <modsnip - casting suspicion on family> Whether or not Canadian law enforcement will ever be able to prove it is a matter for speculation.

 

[dotr]

This may have nothing to do with anything, but then again.. noting and wondering if the Shermans received strange emails or phone calls in the months prior to the murders? fwiw, rbbm.

Ontario's College of Physicians and Surgeons limits building access after threats

The group that regulates the practice of medicine in Ontario says it is limiting public access to its buildings due to safety concerns.

www.cp24.com

January 16, 2023
''The College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario says it has been receiving up to 200 emails a month consisting of serious threats against staff and council members.''

''Some messages indirectly threaten the group's members stating they should "settle their affairs."

 

[newclues]

I’m curious about the coats as well. The information about what they were wearing has evolved over time, but LE hasn’t officially confirmed what KD has found.

Greenspan only mentioned Barry’s coat in his press conference:
(October, 2018)
“Greenspan offered some details about how the Shermans were found, noting that ligatures were wrapped around their necks and then around the pool railing, which forced them into an upright position. Barry's legs were outstretched, with one crossed over another. He was also still wearing his glasses, and the sleeves of his jacket were pulled behind him, which would have restricted the use of his arms.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/shermans-murder-investigator-toronto-1.4878887

October, 2019:

(Q) “…Barry and Honey Sherman were found with their coats pulled back behind them, which would immobilize arm movements…”​

A: I can’t speak for Toronto police. But, as I understand it, the coats were pulled down but not enough to immobilize them.”

Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

Kevin Donovan, the chief investigative reporter at the Toronto Star, talks about the unique investigation, the family and why he believes the case will be solved

www.macleans.ca

(^^The above is a great non-paywalled interview between the late Anne Kingston and Kevin Donovan, btw).

February, 2022:
“…But to this day, police refuse to release images of Barry and Honey as they left Apotex to go home that evening. Police say they do not want anyone to know what the Shermans were wearing because they want any future “witnesses” to be untainted by information in the public domain. Yim says one day a “witness” might come forward and say they saw one of the Shermans that night and police want to compare their description to what the Shermans were wearing to determine if the witness actually saw them.

I countered that it is generally known they were wearing dark coats. (Honey had a blue down vest on under her coat.) Besides, I said, the quality of the photos of the builders in the Apotex lobby is so poor that you can make out their faces but not much else.”

Murder, missteps and the ‘elephant in the room’ in the Barry and Honey Sherman case

Half of the massive Toronto police search warrant file is still blacked out. Here’s what we know about what’s missing as the Star continues its quest to hold police accountable.

www.thestar.com

June, 2022:
“A person walking in from the lone entry door would have seen Honey at the far end of the pool (40 feet away). Honey was in profile, the left side of her body the first part visible. She is fully dressed, wearing dark pants, a blouse and a blue vest. Her rear end is on the floor, her legs stretched out in front. Her shoes, simple black slip-ons (she had perpetually sore feet and liked a comfortable shoe), are almost touching the wall that faces the pool. Police, in their interviews with Sherman family and friends, asked if it was their mother’s practice to take her shoes off when she came home. The children were uncertain.”

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

Adding to the above, the housekeeper said Honey had the habit of taking off her coat and hanging on the back of a chair in the kitchen area. But I haven’t read anything about her finding her coat on December 15th.

Like straitjackets?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

The positioning of the bodies of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman was eerily similar to a tableau of two life-sized, human-shaped art figures in a basement room near the

www.toronto.com

''Among the others: the revelation that a window was open and a door unlocked when police arrived at the Sherman home; the precise location of Barry’s gloves and papers and Honey’s cellphone in the house, which are significant because they may indicate where each was attacked; and the potential disruption of evidence in the home because police did not properly secure the scene.''

The more we review the early reports, I am starting to feel they were most likely more accurate to the actual facts, before LE were able to get a clamp on any information they did not want shared. IMO the more off topic and running down details that have no relevance to the case that the public are doing is better for the LE case. Anyone reporting details as a tip that is from misconstrued information the tipster believe to be the actual truth as reported in media, they can ignore or look into with a different aspect/view. LE will rarely correct the narrative, regardless if it is correct or not.

If the staging was to mimic the statues why place BS glasses on his face (that is if he was actually found with them sitting perfectly square on his face), neither statue are wearing glasses. why not cross the leg on both victims as the statues are?

"The positioning of the bodies of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman was eerily similar to a tableau of two life-sized, human-shaped art figures in a basement room near the crime scene in the billionaire couple’s Toronto home.

The Sherman bodies and the two art figures owned by the Shermans were in a seated position, and both Barry Sherman and the male art figure had one leg crossed over the other."

"Their bodies were found in what Gomes told news conference was a “semi-seated position.” Belts around their necks were attached to a low railing at one end of their basement swimming pool, holding them upright. Brian Greenspan, one of the lawyers working for the Sherman family, has said publicly that the Shermans were found seated side by side, and that one of Barry’s legs was “crossed over the other.” People who saw the bodies in the pool room that Friday have confirmed this to the Star. One of those people said the bodies were not seated in a 90-degree position but tipped back slightly, with the belts around their necks holding them from falling backward into the pool."

This arrangement has puzzled police and private investigators, as well as friends and family of the Shermans. A member of the private investigation team has referred to the positioning as “staged.”

RE why did it take so long for them to call 911: This part makes me think that the realtor finished the tour of the home and then left, not fully believing what they might have seen, then the Sherman realtor found the housekeeper and told her once the others had left.


Entering the vestibule outside the pool, with the clients and the other realtor in tow, the realtor made the grisly discovery. Of note, most of the basement lights were off when the realtors and clients had made their way downstairs. Also, the main lights were off in the pool room, although there was a glow in the room because the underwater lights of the pool were on.

Seeing the strange tableau in the pool room, the realtor moved the clients and the other realtor back upstairs. After the clients and their realtor left, the realtor told the housekeeper and a woman watering plants what she had seen. The glimpse the realtor had was so fleeting that at first she wondered if the Shermans were doing a form of meditation. The woman watering the plants volunteered to check. She came back up and reported to the realtor that the Shermans were dead. The Shermans’ realtor then called Honey’s sister, Mary Shechtman, who was in Florida and had been trying to reach Honey that morning. The realtor then called police.

• Police officers arrived at the house along with paramedics at about 11:45 a.m. After confirming that the Shermans were dead, they set about securing the witnesses at the scene.

 

[dotr]

The more we review the early reports, I am starting to feel they were most likely more accurate to the actual facts, before LE were able to get a clamp on any information they did not want shared. IMO the more off topic and running down details that have no relevance to the case that the public are doing is better for the LE case. Anyone reporting details as a tip that is from misconstrued information the tipster believe to be the actual truth as reported in media, they can ignore or look into with a different aspect/view. LE will rarely correct the narrative, regardless if it is correct or not.

If the staging was to mimic the statues why place BS glasses on his face (that is if he was actually found with them sitting perfectly square on his face), neither statue are wearing glasses. why not cross the leg on both victims as the statues are?

"The positioning of the bodies of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman was eerily similar to a tableau of two life-sized, human-shaped art figures in a basement room near the crime scene in the billionaire couple’s Toronto home.

The Sherman bodies and the two art figures owned by the Shermans were in a seated position, and both Barry Sherman and the male art figure had one leg crossed over the other."

"Their bodies were found in what Gomes told news conference was a “semi-seated position.” Belts around their necks were attached to a low railing at one end of their basement swimming pool, holding them upright. Brian Greenspan, one of the lawyers working for the Sherman family, has said publicly that the Shermans were found seated side by side, and that one of Barry’s legs was “crossed over the other.” People who saw the bodies in the pool room that Friday have confirmed this to the Star. One of those people said the bodies were not seated in a 90-degree position but tipped back slightly, with the belts around their necks holding them from falling backward into the pool."

This arrangement has puzzled police and private investigators, as well as friends and family of the Shermans. A member of the private investigation team has referred to the positioning as “staged.”

RE why did it take so long for them to call 911: This part makes me think that the realtor finished the tour of the home and then left, not fully believing what they might have seen, then the Sherman realtor found the housekeeper and told her once the others had left.


Entering the vestibule outside the pool, with the clients and the other realtor in tow, the realtor made the grisly discovery. Of note, most of the basement lights were off when the realtors and clients had made their way downstairs. Also, the main lights were off in the pool room, although there was a glow in the room because the underwater lights of the pool were on.

Seeing the strange tableau in the pool room, the realtor moved the clients and the other realtor back upstairs. After the clients and their realtor left, the realtor told the housekeeper and a woman watering plants what she had seen. The glimpse the realtor had was so fleeting that at first she wondered if the Shermans were doing a form of meditation. The woman watering the plants volunteered to check. She came back up and reported to the realtor that the Shermans were dead. The Shermans’ realtor then called Honey’s sister, Mary Shechtman, who was in Florida and had been trying to reach Honey that morning. The realtor then called police.

• Police officers arrived at the house along with paramedics at about 11:45 a.m. After confirming that the Shermans were dead, they set about securing the witnesses at the scene.

The link was posted just for the open window and unlocked door part, i should have bolded that.
As for the ''tableau'', it reminded many of us of many things that do not include those particular statues, although there is one small detail i had overlooked, they were (oddly, imo) included in the real estate pics.. fwiw. rbbm.speculation.
s&m?

Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

The positioning of the bodies of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman was eerily similar to a tableau of two life-sized, human-shaped art figures in a basement room near the

www.toronto.com

''The real estate photos were part of the online package of pictures displaying the Sherman home. The photos went online in late November, three weeks before the bodies were found.''

 

[ldlager]

The more we review the early reports, I am starting to feel they were most likely more accurate to the actual facts, before LE were able to get a clamp on any information they did not want shared. IMO the more off topic and running down details that have no relevance to the case that the public are doing is better for the LE case. Anyone reporting details as a tip that is from misconstrued information the tipster believe to be the actual truth as reported in media, they can ignore or look into with a different aspect/view. LE will rarely correct the narrative, regardless if it is correct or not.

If the staging was to mimic the statues why place BS glasses on his face (that is if he was actually found with them sitting perfectly square on his face), neither statue are wearing glasses. why not cross the leg on both victims as the statues are?

"The positioning of the bodies of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman was eerily similar to a tableau of two life-sized, human-shaped art figures in a basement room near the crime scene in the billionaire couple’s Toronto home.

The Sherman bodies and the two art figures owned by the Shermans were in a seated position, and both Barry Sherman and the male art figure had one leg crossed over the other."

"Their bodies were found in what Gomes told news conference was a “semi-seated position.” Belts around their necks were attached to a low railing at one end of their basement swimming pool, holding them upright. Brian Greenspan, one of the lawyers working for the Sherman family, has said publicly that the Shermans were found seated side by side, and that one of Barry’s legs was “crossed over the other.” People who saw the bodies in the pool room that Friday have confirmed this to the Star. One of those people said the bodies were not seated in a 90-degree position but tipped back slightly, with the belts around their necks holding them from falling backward into the pool."

This arrangement has puzzled police and private investigators, as well as friends and family of the Shermans. A member of the private investigation team has referred to the positioning as “staged.”

RE why did it take so long for them to call 911: This part makes me think that the realtor finished the tour of the home and then left, not fully believing what they might have seen, then the Sherman realtor found the housekeeper and told her once the others had left.


Entering the vestibule outside the pool, with the clients and the other realtor in tow, the realtor made the grisly discovery. Of note, most of the basement lights were off when the realtors and clients had made their way downstairs. Also, the main lights were off in the pool room, although there was a glow in the room because the underwater lights of the pool were on.

Seeing the strange tableau in the pool room, the realtor moved the clients and the other realtor back upstairs. After the clients and their realtor left, the realtor told the housekeeper and a woman watering plants what she had seen. The glimpse the realtor had was so fleeting that at first she wondered if the Shermans were doing a form of meditation. The woman watering the plants volunteered to check. She came back up and reported to the realtor that the Shermans were dead. The Shermans’ realtor then called Honey’s sister, Mary Shechtman, who was in Florida and had been trying to reach Honey that morning. The realtor then called police.

• Police officers arrived at the house along with paramedics at about 11:45 a.m. After confirming that the Shermans were dead, they set about securing the witnesses at the scene.

The TPS website continues to indicate that they did not respond until 12.46pm. Why and how can this still be wrong? Or is it correct?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Do we have any posters that have been interviewed by police regarding this case? I know KW has shared a few comments regarding his interrogations. I use the word interrogations instead of interview as he was subjected to a lie detector test.

Not verbatim to KW posts on this subject but he said in his interview / interrogation that he was told or led to interpret that HS died upstairs in the kitchen. I tend to believe this may be the truth, HS succumbed upstairs.

If that is potentially true what other details did we discard that no longer fit the new facts we learned from news reports?

KW has more than once mentioned that a camera was on in the pool room (makes sense to me a camera in that room, for insurance liability reasons) that a hand reached up and touched the camera. The person KW feels resembles BS. IMO the NW could have a similar statute to BS?

May be after all, LE have had a really good deal of information that we know nothing about?

If the NW is the perp the LE released information has them in the area or home for 3 hours. That is a lot of time to clean up any mess they do not want found and stage the scene. If they did see the camera and obstruct the view, would they have gone through the home to find the tape and destroy or delete it?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

The link was posted just for the open window and unlocked door part, i should have bolded that.
As for the ''tableau'', it reminded many of us of many things that do not include those particular statues, although there is one small detail i had overlooked, they were (oddly, imo) included in the real estate pics.. fwiw. rbbm.speculation.
s&m?

Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

The positioning of the bodies of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman was eerily similar to a tableau of two life-sized, human-shaped art figures in a basement room near the

www.toronto.com

''The real estate photos were part of the online package of pictures displaying the Sherman home. The photos went online in late November, three weeks before the bodies were found.''

I have a family member who is a realtor, they ask families to clean up the home for pictures, at the end of the day the photographer will not move anything, they just take pictures of the room.

Today they have software that will change out the furniture, another realtor may have removed them, IMO this realtor is more old school (as is my family member, those software alterations cost money and you try not to put out too much money you may not sell it and that is all at the realtors expense) and would just take pictures of the room and expect the realtor to sell it with their help for the client to envision what they asked you to show them.

 

[Window21]

I also think what KW said about HS dying upstairs may be correct. It is reasonable to think that IMO.

The bit about the camera in the pool room makes me wonder.....I am not sure it was turned on and if it was then where is this video? Does it record sounds? Was there even a camera in that room? If there was a camera in the pool room then I would guess there would be other cameras in the house?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The CBC reported that there were no security cameras inside or outside the Sherman home.

KD in his book, the Star & Bloomberg reported there was one camera in the pool area but it was not connected. (KD wrote it had never been in use.) If you look at the photos of the pool there appears to be one in the upper right hand of the photo, imo.

LE or court records released to the media haven’t mentioned home security cameras, just that the security system wasn’t armed when the housekeeper and trainer arrived on the morning of the 15th.

 

[WINDSOR]

Some thoughts.

When interviewing a witness/suspect/person of interest, the information that the Police divulge may or may not be true or accurate.
ie. ('Bill is in the other room telling us it was all your idea and only you shot the victim')

Be assured if the NW was in the Sherman house, he knew where the cameras were, and which ones were working, and how to to disable them.

The TPS have a huge volume of info they will not release to the public. Notice how hard they fought in the courts to keep from releasing any information to KD and the Toronto Star.

Historically the public is very surprised when cases go to trial and the amount of evidence the police have is released.

 

[dotr]

Some thoughts.

When interviewing a witness/suspect/person of interest, the information that the Police divulge may or may not be true or accurate.
ie. ('Bill is in the other room telling us it was all your idea and only you shot the victim')

Be assured if the NW was in the Sherman house, he knew where the cameras were, and which ones were working, and how to to disable them.

The TPS have a huge volume of info they will not release to the public. Notice how hard they fought in the courts to keep from releasing any information to KD and the Toronto Star.

Historically the public is very surprised when cases go to trial and the amount of evidence the police have is released.

The murder of Prof. Dan Markel allegedly orchestrated by ex in-laws and executed by hired hitmen, is a good example of LE all along knowing a great deal via cell calls, bus video and restaurant audio recordings, took a bit of time, but bam!

GUILTY - FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #13

Florida State University professor Dan Markel was found in his Tallahassee, Florida, home on Friday. Police say there were no signs of robbery or burglary and have yet to disclose any motive. According to Tallahassee police, officers found Markel after a neighbor called 911 at about 11 a.m. with...

www.websleuths.com

 

[newclues]

Who is the main suspect in all of this according to your opinion?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Who is the main suspect in all of this according to your opinion?

Personally, I would not hazard a guess with the amount of confirmed facts I know. Do not get me wrong, I have had many thoughts singling out a person based on media reports, books, articles and what we saw of interviews ( interviews are edited and do not show an uninterrupted start to finish ).

But in all honesty I do not think I have the full unequivocal picture to make any conclusions.

 

[ldlager]

Question- Has LE disclosed the time of day that the video of the NW was actually recorded?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Question- Has LE disclosed the time of day that the video of the NW was actually recorded?

No, not yet. From the press conference about the NW:

“JP(CBC): I’m JP with CBC French. Detective Sergeant can you please tell me what time is it on the tape right now, because from here, on my screen it seems like it's daylight but I guess it's night time, no?

DSBP: That's correct. I'm not going to say exactly the time of this clip but I will say it is in the evening or night hours of December 13th 2017, and you're correct, it's sort of quite bright but that's partly to do with the type of camera that was recording.”

Canada - Barry & Honey Sherman, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

Small edits to timeline. Added dates and links. Note: Toronto Star reporter and chief investigative journalist Kevin Donovan represented himself, and on behalf of the Toronto Star, in court for the last three years, in an ongoing effort to have police and court documents unsealed in this case...

www.websleuths.com

In the press conference BP said the NW was caught on cctv close to the Shermans’ home at the time police believe they were murdered —between 9:00 pm -12:00 am.

KD has suggested anywhere between 9:00-10:30 pm in two interviews, but he didn’t elaborate. (Maybe something he noticed about the amount of snow at the time?)

 

[newclues]

Was the NW walking away or towards the Sherman's house? It would appear away which means after the crimes were committed. Thus, it would be at a time later and closer to midnight.

 

[ldlager]

Was the NW walking away or towards the Sherman's house? It would appear away which means after the crimes were committed. Thus, it would be at a time later and closer to midnight.

That’s why I was wondering what time the video was from. If we knew that we would have some idea how long he Was potentially in the house. If the time of the video was say 3am we would know he was in the house for quite some time and took his time there.

 

[Edvis]

History has shown us that when it comes to money and power there is always one or more that want's and thinks they deserve a slice or more of the pie and at times reach a point when they step across the line of rational thought. Nothing was stolen I gather despite the house the perpetrator was in, higher stakes involved it seems?. The bodies were laid out in a fashion to make one take notice as well and if performed by a professional hit person or even a up and comer in the dark profession some like to leave a calling card to let those in the knowing how to identify their work, just some ramblings here but hope the truth behind this tragedy is brought to light and the family can find some peace.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

The positioning of the bodies of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman was eerily similar to a tableau of two life-sized, human-shaped art figures in a basement room near the

www.toronto.com

''Among the others: the revelation that a window was open and a door unlocked when police arrived at the Sherman home; the precise location of Barry’s gloves and papers and Honey’s cellphone in the house, which are significant because they may indicate where each was attacked; and the potential disruption of evidence in the home because police did not properly secure the scene.''

I had a thought, what if one of the few people who toured the home that morning opened that door and did not lock it after looking outside and the police know this detail and no longer see this as any relevant clue to the case?

IMO the window does not provide any clues to this case. The door, yes, but a security alarm (from the 80's or 90's) may not indicate a door is not locked, only that it is open / ajar- The window may not have been part of the security monitoring (no sensors to monitor if it opened) or it was flagged and red on the alarm pad and that was ok because of the paint.

Maybe many of the journalist's assumptions/opinions/guesses have been fully investigated and either ruled out as any relevance, or confirmed to be inclusive as evidence in the case. We do not know.

Think how many ways we in the websleuths community have disected the facts here, this case could be a defense lawyers dream. Possibly this is why LE need a smoking "ligature" before they make any arrests.

God Speed LE,