CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

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One thing to keep in mind is the special prosecutorial/investigative deal that Apotex had with the law firm and the police/feds. It seems to me that Honey's will would not be included in this but KD suggests otherwise in his article:

"Due to a deal worked out between Apotex lawyers and Ontario’s Ministry of the Attorney General, while police were allowed to review 1,387 electronic files, they never saw 586 electronic files (such as an email or a document involving Barry) because Goodmans, the Apotex law firm, determined it was sensitive, “privileged” information.

Some of those were legal communication Honey had with lawyers at two Toronto law firms, Blaney McMurtry LLP or Torkin Manes law firm. Due to redactions, the Star does not know what those communications dealt with but they were not long before Honey died."


DH, normally, would be more compelled to share things. However, he won't with any press including even KD, citing confidentiality. That makes sense, he owes nothing to the press. But it seems if TPS said hey we know you were in contact, we know you called, we are wondering why and whether they made changes to their will (again that would not seem to get the Apotex trade secret treatment with the lawyers), he may say no but they could compel him with court orders that superseded the prosecutorial deal, which seemed to be related to trade secrets, not their personal wills. He would play ball at that point because he could turn around and tell clients he has no choice? Is DH the source TPS said was "dragging his feet"? They were on the verge of getting some new info from this source they spoke of at the time but implied the source did cave and they did get what they were after.
What about legal privilege? It continues after death. I’m not saying I agree that anyone with info should keep it private after a client’s murder, but I’m not sure the lawyer is permitted to waive privilege without his deceased client there to authorize him to do so. Does anyone know the answer to this?
 
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What about legal privilege? It continues after death. I’m not saying I agree that anyone with info should keep it private after a client’s murder, but I’m not sure the lawyer is permitted to waive privilege without his deceased client there to authorize him to do so.
Sure. But we are talking about a will. Its the wishes of the deceased - the closest thing to what you are highlighting as important (their consent). The entire premise of the will is that upon death, it activates. The premise is not that there should be a legal battle as to whether it sees the light of day. So I think as KD has seemingly reported, the Apotex deal may have enveloped everything, including anything related to the will. The reason? The will likely includes succession details RELATED to Apotex. So here, the company could be invoking privilege in a very liberal way.

There likely is more to come here. The fact that KD stumbled upon DH call, and that it called to mind info he already had (@blaneys) emails to HS, is striking. The holes in the wall, blah blah blah, may mean nothing. May mean everything.

And who is the new information informant? That led police to believe they were being surveilled?

"These documents are part of nine requests made by police from shortly after the murders until Dec. 20, 2018, a full year into the investigation. The Star has not yet seen documents from after that date."
 
This article is interesting: Brother vs. sister: Two of Barry and Honey Sherman’s children in a battle for control of the family empire

"Jonathon wrote to Alexandra in 2019 suggesting that she step down, even just for a short period, from her job as president of the Sherman charities.

“I do have a big problem with the fact that you have taken control of the foundations, and now you won’t answer my calls to discuss foundation-related things,” Jonathon wrote his sister. “I am not an outsider bugging you for money like the hundreds of calls we get.”

He proposed a solution: “I think you should temporarily give up control of the foundations so that the rest of us can continue to operate and make decisions.”

Alexandra rejected that idea, and has retained control over the Sherman family foundations, insiders say. Jonathon said his sister and father had very different approaches to charity. He said in his opinion, his father was interested in the “tax credits,” while his sister wants to “give it all away.” Recently, through a charity called the Krawczyk Family Foundation, Alexandra and Brad pledged $2 million to an Indigenous initiative, the Anishnawbe Health Toronto health centre. As the Star has reported, in addition to a Sherman family charitable foundation created years ago by Barry and Honey, each of the four children now has his or her own charitable foundation.
 
What about legal privilege? It continues after death. I’m not saying I agree that anyone with info should keep it private after a client’s murder, but I’m not sure the lawyer is permitted to waive privilege without his deceased client there to authorize him to do so. Does anyone know the answer to this?

''HOW LONG ARE THE COMMUNICATIONS PROTECTED?​

Solicitor-client privilege is permanently protected, meaning that the privilege continues even if the solicitor-client relationship ends and the file has been closed. This privilege is so protected that, subject to the exceptions below (and in the unique case where the validity of a will is in dispute), solicitor-client privilege survives the death of the client.''
 

''HOW LONG ARE THE COMMUNICATIONS PROTECTED?​

Solicitor-client privilege is permanently protected, meaning that the privilege continues even if the solicitor-client relationship ends and the file has been closed. This privilege is so protected that, subject to the exceptions below (and in the unique case where the validity of a will is in dispute), solicitor-client privilege survives the death of the client.''
This implies that if a will exists, the family could keep it hidden and do whatever they want. It all seems murky. More to come with the will and estate. We know TPS is intrigued. As is KD...
 
Sure. But we are talking about a will. Its the wishes of the deceased - the closest thing to what you are highlighting as important (their consent). The entire premise of the will is that upon death, it activates. The premise is not that there should be a legal battle as to whether it sees the light of day. So I think as KD has seemingly reported, the Apotex deal may have enveloped everything, including anything related to the will. The reason? The will likely includes succession details RELATED to Apotex. So here, the company could be invoking privilege in a very liberal way.

There likely is more to come here. The fact that KD stumbled upon DH call, and that it called to mind info he already had (@blaneys) emails to HS, is striking. The holes in the wall, blah blah blah, may mean nothing. May mean everything.

And who is the new information informant? That led police to believe they were being surveilled?

"These documents are part of nine requests made by police from shortly after the murders until Dec. 20, 2018, a full year into the investigation. The Star has not yet seen documents from after that date."
I agree a will would normally be disclosed. But if the will was not yet signed, but rather edits were contemplated, that is different. Proposed changes to a will might be a motive to murder, but they are not an actual will to be disclosed. Whether or not the lawyer can disclose discussions relating to a will or estate planning changes/gifts in light of the subsequent murders is unclear to me. Legal privilege is very entrenched, and the deceased are also entitled to privacy in their legal consultations. That said, one would think if one was murdered they may wish relevant information re the murderer(s) to come to light, even from their lawyer.
 
MS has her own theory. KD says he promised to keep it between them but she shared it with police. In another star article, she muses about it being fueled by religious hatred...and talks about people in the house, and her tendency to make politically incorrect statements..
 
I agree a will would normally be disclosed. But if the will was not yet signed, but rather edits were contemplated, that is different. Proposed changes to a will might be a motive to murder, but they are not an actual will to be disclosed. Whether or not the lawyer can disclose discussions relating to a will or estate planning changes/gifts in light of the subsequent murders is unclear to me. Legal privilege is very entrenched, and the deceased are also entitled to privacy in their legal consultations. That said, one would think if one was murdered they may wish relevant information re the murderer(s) to come to light, even from their lawyer.
Yes. But she "updated her will". The implication, which KD basically agrees with, is that the will did exist...

DH was also a fanatic about not having boiler plate wills. In his q&a he is pretty clear...He was fanatical in that interview...

"Everybody needs a will! And you can’t do a boiler plate will, where you simply leave everything to your wife or, failing that, to your children. Businesses are usually more complex than people think."

This is a quote from DH. Do you really think she had no will?
 
JS as per KD: "I never knew when or where my parents were but the killers probably did. It would be pretty simple to check all the emails and phone records to get an indication of who was most in contact with my parents and would have known their coming and going. It would be pretty obvious that I could not have known their schedule because we didn't talk regularly."
 
I'm thinking TPS was hoping the killer(s) would become complacent and make a mistake if they thought TPS wasn't investigating it as a double homicide.

Excellent point that we have no idea what TPS may have as far as a second suspect on surveillance, etc. God knows, they took long enough to tell us about the NW.
I don’t believe for one second that the murderers were trying to leave behind a scene that would lead the police to believe that they were looking at a murder/suicide.
I am sure the murderers were stunned when they heard that news.
I think it was staged to look like a professional killing. I don’t believe the murderers were professional hit men at all.
The fact that they had to use the belt from BS’s waist proves that. It’s almost comical to think someone paid A professional hit man who showed up at the scene without all the equipment.
I think the way they were staged was an afterthought. They had the time certainly.
The police put their deaths to be completely by midnight. That has to be from the cameras picking up the NW.
Considering the time H arrived home and Barry was clearly ambushed the second he walked in that gives them 4 hours in the house to change the script. Even knowing that the sculptures were down there by someone very familiar with the house. Seeing them could have given them the idea. The added touch.
Let’s make it look like a professional hit and we are sending a message.
This is just my opinion.
 
May 20, 2019
''No official time of death has been released but sources close to the case have said it is believed the Shermans died late on Wednesday or early Thursday morning. Police are investigating the case as a targeted double homicide.

On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony, near Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401.


The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners’ house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.

The next day, when news surfaced late in the afternoon of the Shermans’ bodies being discovered, one of the homeowners happened to be driving near Toronto Police Services 33 Division (the local division that was at the time investigating the Shermans’ deaths before the homicide unit took over). The homeowner went in to make a report, wanting to alert them to the fact a police officer had been on Old Colony Rd. the day before.

“It was just too much of a coincidence and I thought police should know,” the homeowner told the Star. That Friday night at the police division, the homeowner was told by police that “maybe some wires were crossed” and that is why it appeared a 911 call had been made.''
Thanks Dotr. Given that police respond very quickly to 911 calls, it seems pretty certain that the call was made the morning following the murders
 
JS as per KD: "I never knew when or where my parents were but the killers probably did. It would be pretty simple to check all the emails and phone records to get an indication of who was most in contact with my parents and would have known their coming and going. It would be pretty obvious that I could not have known their schedule because we didn't talk regularly."
If the killers could get unauthorized and secret access to BS and HS emails and phone records couldnt JS do the same?
 
May 20, 2019
''No official time of death has been released but sources close to the case have said it is believed the Shermans died late on Wednesday or early Thursday morning. Police are investigating the case as a targeted double homicide.

On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony, near Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401.


The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners’ house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.

The next day, when news surfaced late in the afternoon of the Shermans’ bodies being discovered, one of the homeowners happened to be driving near Toronto Police Services 33 Division (the local division that was at the time investigating the Shermans’ deaths before the homicide unit took over). The homeowner went in to make a report, wanting to alert them to the fact a police officer had been on Old Colony Rd. the day before.

“It was just too much of a coincidence and I thought police should know,” the homeowner told the Star. That Friday night at the police division, the homeowner was told by police that “maybe some wires were crossed” and that is why it appeared a 911 call had been made.''
JS as per KD: "I never knew when or where my parents were but the killers probably did. It would be pretty simple to check all the emails and phone records to get an indication of who was most in contact with my parents and would have known their coming and going. It would be pretty obvious that I could not have known their schedule because we didn't talk regularly."
He lies !
He tells KD after KD points out that the emails suddenly stop three weeks before they were murdered that he didn’t need to email BS all the time, he would speak to him in person as he has an office at Apotex.
How often did he and AP go to their Apotex offices. I can bet you, not often.
 
Yes. But she "updated her will". The implication, which KD basically agrees with, is that the will did exist...

DH was also a fanatic about not having boiler plate wills. In his q&a he is pretty clear...He was fanatical in that interview...

"Everybody needs a will! And you can’t do a boiler plate will, where you simply leave everything to your wife or, failing that, to your children. Businesses are usually more complex than people think."

This is a quote from DH. Do you really think she had no will?
I didn’t say she didn’t have a will. I said her and/Barry’s discussions with DH about updating wills/estate planning/gifts may be subject to privilege.

Honey saying she was updating her will doesn’t mean that was completed. The call from DH suggests in fact it wasn’t — otherwise why the late night call/meeting? Perhaps the timing of the murders is related to this.

Assuming Honey had a will before, which she was updating, we have no idea:
1) if DH was involved with that or had a copy of the earlier will;
2) who had a copy;
3) if she had terminated it (seems unusual without signing a new one but possible if she was unhappy with its terms)
4) if she terminated it and wrote a handwritten holograph will as a temporary replacement (possible as a bridge-and possible that it could go missing)

I think the timing of DH’s 9pm call is not a coincidence, meaning —at a minimum— major changes were afoot that others did not like.

If I were DH I would have obtained advice from the Law Society or legal counsel about what if anything he could do.

If the executors/those controlling Apotex (effectively the same people) are left as the ones instructing the counsel vetting privilege, it also strikes me that they could be in a conflict situation — ie not wanting this info to come to light (eg., JS, BK). Even if the new will wasn’t signed, it may not play well from lots of perspectives (motive, MS, etc) to have it come out, for example, that they intended to leave millions to charity, to MS, etc.
 
Thanks Dotr. Given that police respond very quickly to 911 calls, it seems pretty certain that the call was made the morning following the murders
Well I have to disagree.
I tried making a 911 call last week. Time of call was 4.20 pm.
I was on hold for 20 minutes.
I finally spoke to an operator and gave them all of the information.
I decided to stay close by to make sure that the individuals that I was worried about were ok.
Waited one hour.
Police did not show up.
At 10.20 pm I received a call from the police asking me to tell them what I was calling about.
 
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