CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

[Dedpanman]

Maybe we can wrap up VICTIMOLOGY...?

So, out of this victim-picture, I’d like to pose a question for discussion (if I may):

Do you think that if Christine had never been sexually exploited before the family’s move to Queensville, this crime would have occurred?

The answer(s) to that question (both yes or no) are potentially powerful lines of thought. To phrase the question another way: Did her sexual exploitation put her at a higher risk, and if so, why? How?

Perhaps exploring these questions might open up new avenues of thought for how she came into her killer’s “sphere”?

Since no one took the bait to tackle that question, I'll post it one more time to see if I can entice some discussion. If no one bites, I'll try answering my own question - in my next post.

 

[marikesh]

1. On the UC site - where does Ken Jessop claim Christine approached him in the summer (assume 1984) to tell him a male was sexual towards her, and that she was sexually active with this male?

2. Did Ken ever ask his sister who the male was? Did Ken ever report this when he revealed his sexual conduct with his sister? Was it then investigated? By which police force? When?

3. Were Ken's posts ever trashed on UC? Was there ever an accusation the poster was not Ken?

No. 1. I don't believe he did say that in those words; however he does state that what info he took to police was ignored and they told him to get on with life.
No. 3. Yes they were and yes he was called an imposter. The same people did that to other family members of other victims for reasons not known to most of us. Myself, I can't subscribe to that. I believe Towser and Ken are one and the same.

Towser claims that info in the different books vary; yet those very books from authors who take literary license are considered as fact.
I am really confused with all the drama surrounding the ownership of CJ's case. It breaks my heart what little CJ went through. If this had happened to my dtr I would have been breaking down doors to get people to listen, especially the police and I'd go beyond because they really smudged the case. Ken had to live with some hurtful accusations and that can really affect a person lifelong.
Christine deserves much better than this squabbling over what is fact or not.
Because I believe in Towser/Ken, I suppose I am considered in the handful who wants to present falsehoods. Perhaps anyone who just wants one line of thinking presented should write their book they have planned and be done with it?

 

[Dedpanman]

Marikesh, you can believe whatever you want to believe. (I’m saying that without sarcasm.) Really - it's your right. I'm just saying, let's be responsible with the information. Kaufman's report came from a public inquiry with hundreds of people involved. I think we can trust the integrity of the document (knowing that there are probably some errors). Makin is a well-respected writer for The Globe And Mail. His book is exhaustive and required incredible research. I think we can trusty the integrity of it (knowing that there are probably some errors). Those two documents are the building blocks for discussion of this case. The facts presented within must be held to a higher standard than information that floats into the thread from unknown sources or sources that can’t be verified.

That’s all I’m saying.

Shall we get back to discussing the case…?
Victimology anyone….?

Anyone…?

 

[Mistysues]

Sorry. Ihave to catch up on some posts. Just to clarify the information I pasted above is NOT from UC. It is from the fb memorial site for CJ. The admin for that page IS Ken Jessop. He isn't hiding under a screen name. Its attached to his personal fb page. On the memorial site he states he IS Tower from UC and a few other sites like WS and UC.

 

[Mistysues]

Mistysues - just out of curiosity, did you manage to research what year the ability to copy DNA began?

Working on it to resume that convo with you Talking with my biochem prof via email. I shall let you know when Im done.

 

[Woodland]

Check your facts Mistysues - I read that post on UC.

Marikesh - the info Ken took to the police was regarding the sons of family friends. That's why they told him to get on with his life - he was reporting the sexual abuse of himself as well.

Very blurred info all around. This poor kid just can't seem to catch a break.

 

[Mistysues]

Yes Dedpanman, in answer to your question. I think it still would have happened. Part of my reasoning is abduction statistics. And because of the family lifestyle. IMO

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/omc-ned/abd-rapt-eng.htm - great read for.further insight if your interested.

 

[Mistysues]

Check your facts Mistysues - I read that post on UC.

Marikesh - the info Ken took to the police was regarding the sons of family friends. That's why they told him to get on with his life - he was reporting the sexual abuse of himself as well.

Very blurred info all around. This poor kid just can't seem to catch a break.

You may have read it there however get a fb account and look up.the memorial site yourself.

 

[Mistysues]

Anyone know offhand where either trial was held. Id like to take a gander at the public court documents.

 

[Mistysues]

Also, has anyone else wondered why CJ didn't go with the rest of the family to see Dad at the jail?

 

[Dedpanman]

Also, has anyone else wondered why CJ didn't go with the rest of the family to see Dad at the jail?

I believe in RR, Makin addresses that. Originally, Janet was just going to go see Bob. Christine left the house to catch the bus to go to school, then Ken convinced Janet to let him skip the whole day of school and go with her. He had a dentist appointment that afternoon anyway...

 

[Mistysues]

Mistysues - just out of curiosity, did you manage to research what year the ability to copy DNA began?

Hi Woodland, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have compiled some research for those wanting to understand more about DNA profiling. In order to have cleared GPM lab technicians had to have created a DNA profile from the semen found on CJ's underwear. This profile (which can be simplified as letters and numbers specifying identity points) would be saved by LE techs, as even after conviction or acquittal evidence must be kept. The profile is what is entered into the DNA database. I recall in another post Dedpanman listed the profile sequence. This is what is entered into the database. It isnt the actual live fluid sample.

DNA profiling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/bp443-e.htm
http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/forensics.shtml
http://science.howstuffworks.com/dna-profiling1.htm

DNA EVIDENCE IN THE CHRISTINE JESSOP HOMICIDE CASE
J.S. WAYE, E.T. BLAKE, J.M. WILLIAMSON and D.H. BI
DNA tests conducted in 1995 led to the exoneration of Guy Paul Morin for the 1984 sex-slaying of nine-year-old Christine Jessop. This paper provides an overview of the DNA tests conducted in the case, up to and including those that excluded Guy Paul Morin as a possible source of spermatozoa found on the deceased's underwear. Previous attempts to derive a DNA profile for the spermatozoa were hampered by a potent inhibitor of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR). PCR inhibition was eventually overcome by pretreating the samples with thiopropyl Sepharose 6B beads and supplementing the PCR with bovine serum albumin (BSA) and additional Taq polymerase. This strategy may prove useful for other cases in which PCR amplification is inhibited.

 

[Woodland]

There is a DNa profile from 1995 - a fact never disputed.

 

[Mistysues]

There is a DNa profile from 1995 - a fact never disputed.

Yes but I understand your argument is that the profile is not compatible with the DNA database and therefore cannot be entered? Am I correct?

 

[Mistysues]

So what does science do when they have a DNA profile from pre-1997 (when the ability replicate DNA was introduced)? The ability to convert pre 1997 profiles into post 1997 profiles is very new - there is a limited use for it but it is required. No conversion required just a profile required

Look forward to your research. Mine is from CBR Laboratories in Boston, MA. They conducted the 1995 test that produced the DNA profile that exonerated an innocent man. They also advised in 2008 that in 2004, there was no way to test the samples that were contaminated with spilled blood - in that there was no way to be sure one had a profile that excluded the blood sample.From the information I gathered this is incorrect

 

[Mistysues]

You have missed something Mistysues - the 1995 DNA profile could not entered into the Canadian National DNA Databank. It can be entered because it is a sequence of letters and numbers not an organic sample

That's according to the RCMP. The 1995 profile was generated using an HLA DQ Alpha Amplitype Kit. The RCMP assures me in an e-mail those tests cannot be entered into the DNA databank. This profile was actually generated using a PCR test

 

[Dedpanman]

Yes Dedpanman, in answer to your question. I think it still would have happened. Part of my reasoning is abduction statistics. And because of the family lifestyle. IMO

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/omc-ned/abd-rapt-eng.htm - great read for.further insight if your interested.

Mistysues - thanks for providing that link. That was a great read and contained many relevant sections. I highly recommend contributors/visitors of this thread to read that study. I will post what I consider relevant highlights in another post. Thanks again, Mistysues!

 

[Woodland]

One final item from me on the 1995 DNA profile - it needs to be kept in perspective and not skewed so people have the ability to rationalize what happened to that particular test. Why were they down to their 'last worm' as Bob Jessop phrased it?

The sequence of letters and numbers changed in 1997 after it was realized how little of our DNA makes us unique. This sped up the technology to copy DNA - not possible until 1997. The RCMP have confirmed the 1995 test cannot be entered into the National DNA Database - I invite anyone to ask them. The name of the test is here.

It can't be entered because it is the equivalent of trying to play a cassette tape in a DVD player.

 

[Dedpanman]

I would welcome confirmation on this issue. I'm sure - so would many others. The future resolution of this case hangs on it. What kind of confirmation would settle this issue for everyone? And, how can we get it?

 

[Woodland]

Mistysues is studying DNA - looking forward to that source for info. I've stated where mine comes from. CBR Laboratories is the the same lab that developed the test, modified it and conducted the test under Canadian court scrutiny in order to ensure a fair and accurate profile.

A cassette tape and DVD can contain the same info - you cannot extract that info by mixing the two. Each source requires the corresponding player.