http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...3ICYDg&usg=AFQjCNEU19T9AxQ2QB-D-pgda6KXKf1sEw
American stats for child murder methods.
American stats for child murder methods.
CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1
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Stabbing, mutilation etc is very rare. Especially in children CJ's age Less than 5%.
re:
Using apples to apples; again after the 1995 dna tests, the dna profile of the killer was compared against that of GPM using the newer standardised tests and profile results. The same profile was entered into the current database with the same markers tested as were being standardized for the codex data base world wide system. Is that not apple to apple?
Anyway, someone else has already tried this discussion without resolution. If some evidence surfaces to prove that the 1995 dna profile can't be compared, we would all like to see it. Meanwhile links have been posted for everyone to see. The 1995 test parameters match the newer test parameters. Same profile to same profile, same markers.
Its not a question of interpretation or relying on an outdated generic simplification of scientific complexity (apples to apples) that will determine the answer. As far as I know and as far as I can tell, all the 1995 tests tested for the same markers as are currently tested for in the new system. The Carolina example posted above, same year demonstrates that.
Any new poi discovered should be able to be tested against the killers profile. That is what we need to know... imo. is it or isn't it?
But we need to know one way or the other..
Using apples to apples; again after the 1995 dna tests, the dna profile of the killer was compared against that of GPM using the newer standardised tests and profile results. The same profile was entered into the current database with the same markers tested as were being standardized for the codex data base world wide system. Is that not apple to apple?
Anyway, someone else has already tried this discussion without resolution. If some evidence surfaces to prove that the 1995 dna profile can't be compared, we would all like to see it. Meanwhile links have been posted for everyone to see. The 1995 test parameters match the newer test parameters. Same profile to same profile, same markers.
Its not a question of interpretation or relying on an outdated generic simplification of scientific complexity (apples to apples) that will determine the answer. As far as I know and as far as I can tell, all the 1995 tests tested for the same markers as are currently tested for in the new system. The Carolina example posted above, same year demonstrates that.
Any new poi discovered should be able to be tested against the killers profile. That is what we need to know... imo. is it or isn't it?
We don't know that there was no decomposition in the soil at the site because the detective that picked up the soil Michael Michalowsky was proven to have compromised evidence and the soil tested was taken some time after the body was collected.
"More disturbing still was the volume of "lost" evidence; 150 slides of hair and fiber samples allegedly match to Morin or his car, shards of plastic found on Christine's clothes, leaves and debris collected at the crime scene, a swatch of carpet and a milk carton found near the body, and so forth-all denied to Morin's defenders. One investigator (Michael Michalowsky) "lost" his original notes on the case, then "found" a revised set more incriminating toward defendant Morin. The same detective had unaccountably stored various pieces of case evidence at his home and falsified the date on which soil samples were submitted for laboratory analysis (apparently to disguise a 12-month delay in submission of critical evidence).
From: The encyclopedia of high tech crime and crime fighting by michael newton. This info is in the Kaufman report as well I am trying to find the pg.
Factors affecting decomposition
Further information: Environmental effects on forensic entomology
Exposure to the elements
A dead body that has been exposed to the open elements, such as water and air, will decompose more quickly and attract much more insect activity than a body that is buried or confined in special protective gear or artifacts. This is due, in part, to the limited number of insects that can penetrate a coffin and the lower temperatures under soil.
The rate and manner of decomposition in an animal body is strongly affected by a number of factors. In roughly descending degrees of importance, they are:
Temperature;
The availability of oxygen;
Prior embalming;
Cause of death;
Burial, depth of burial, and soil type;
Access by scavengers;
Trauma, including wounds and crushing blows;
Humidity, or wetness;
Rainfall;
Body size and weight;
Clothing;
The surface on which the body rests;
Foods/objects inside the specimen's digestive tract (bacon compared to lettuce).
The speed at which decomposition occurs varies greatly. Factors such as temperature, humidity, and the season of death all determine how fast a fresh body will skeletonize or mummify. A basic guide for the effect of environment on decomposition is given as Casper's Law (or Ratio): if all other factors are equal, then, when there is free access of air a body decomposes twice as fast than if immersed in water and eight times faster than if buried in earth. Ultimately, the rate of bacterial decomposition acting on the tissue will be depend upon the temperature of the surroundings. Colder temperatures decrease the rate of decomposition while warmer temperatures increase it.
The most important variable is a body's accessibility to insects, particularly flies. On the surface in tropical areas, invertebrates alone can easily reduce a fully fleshed corpse to clean bones in under two weeks. The skeleton itself is not permanent; acids in soils can reduce it to unrecognizable components. This is one reason given for the lack of human remains found in the wreckage of the Titanic, even in parts of the ship considered inaccessible to scavengers. Freshly skeletonized bone is often called "green" bone and has a characteristic greasy feel. Under certain conditions (normally cool, damp soil), bodies may undergo saponification and develop a waxy substance called adipocere, caused by the action of soil chemicals on the body's proteins and fats. The formation of adipocere slows decomposition by inhibiting the bacteria that cause putrefaction.
In extremely dry or cold conditions, the normal process of decomposition is halted by either lack of moisture or temperature controls on bacterial and enzymatic action causing the body to be preserved as a mummy. Frozen mummies commonly restart the decomposition process when thawed (see Ötzi the Iceman), whilst heat-desiccated mummies remain so unless exposed to moisture.
The bodies of newborns who never ingested food are an important exception to the normal process of decomposition. They lack the internal microbial flora that produce much of decomposition and quite commonly mummify if kept in even moderately dry conditions.
--This would make me conclude that the limited insect activity doesn't indicate CJ was moved or stored somewhere, but that because she was wounded and exposed to the elements and skeletonized (with exception of her head) once found that her decomp was faster.
Dedpanman
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Woodland - Here are some of the things that I could immediately relate to this case in one way or another. I tend to gravitate towards comparing criminal behaviour patterns, so I found this stuff interesting:
two victims were abducted from inside their home; one from the yard of the family home
the abductor was a complete stranger in one case, and in the other four cases: a friend of the mother's friend; a neighbour; a friend of the family who worked as a babysitter; and a father's friend who was recently released from prison
four of the five missing children were murdered and found in a farmers field
the bodies of two murdered children were found 30 to 50 miles from their home
all the murdered children were sexually assaulted
abduction victims tend not to be chosen randomly
offenders generally select victims that hold some kind of significance to them
routine activities most often bring potential victims and offenders together. Crime is most often a result of interactions between motivated offenders, available targets, and lack of vigilant guardianship to prevent crime
elementary school children were more likely to be victimized by acquaintances (44%) and strangers (38%) due to sexual motivation
the common assumption that the offender is someone who just comes out of nowhere and snatches a child is rare. Most commonly the offender is in an area for a legitimate reason and is known to the child and/or family...
the length of time the child remains alive is usually very short in duration. Researchers reported that the victims were typically killed immediately or kept alive for only about 24 hours. In this study, it was estimated by the investigating officers that the four victims were killed within the first 24 hours
some research studies showed that the abductor targets children who appear to have low self esteem, come from a dysfunctional family or may be a victim of physical or sexual abuse
researchers reported that abductors seldom "stalk" their victim
Dedpanman
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Id have to go to the library to dig up specific statistics about the typical methods that offenders use to murder an abducted child. Off the top of my head, the most common method Ive come across in my readings is strangulation. Offenders who strangle tend to be strong, confident personalities who have given their task some careful thought. Strangling is relatively clean as it does not result in blood all over the place (and on the offender).
Stabbing is a very common method of murder as well, and tends to be the actions of a less organized personality. Sometimes the act of stabbing a victim takes the place of the sexual act (the knife becoming the symbolic organ of penetration). These types of offenders tend to have serious hang-ups about sex, and normal sex is impossible for them.
Mutilation of a murder victim tends to suggest that the offender may have been sexually abused himself:
Sexually abused murderers are more likely to mutilate victims than are those offenders not sexually abused. (Murderers who Rape and Mutilate by Robert Ressler, Ann Burgess, Carol Hartman, John Douglas, Arlene McCormack.)
Dedpanman
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Back on post #329, I wrote:
Do you think that if Christine had never been sexually exploited before the familys move to Queensville, this crime would have occurred?
The answer(s) to that question (both yes or no) are potentially powerful lines of thought. To phrase the question another way: Did her sexual exploitation put her at a higher risk, and if so, why? How?
I shall attempt an answer now to my own question -- and this will require speculation, but Ill try to keep it logical.
News of Christines sexual exploitation in Richmond Hill by the brothers may have travelled along a grapevine to the person who would end up abducting her. This person may have been on the peripherals, or the outer most orbit of that particular sphere of danger. This person could have been a friend of a friend of one of the brothers (or, some such person) and may have learned of Christines compliance with older males. This could have fuelled a sick fantasy involving his turn with her.
Makin suggests rather explicitly in Redrum that Christines sexual experiences with the older boys may have altered her behaviour in certain ways -- that she knowingly or unknowingly sent off false signals of maturity (he writes specifically of Christines apparent interest in older men) and knowledge about sex beyond her years.
If Christine was in the park, or the fire hall, or some other place where there were males, she may have given off these false signals of maturity and this could have ignited the interest of the perpetrator. Some research studies suggest that some abductors are able to hone in on children with low self esteem and victims of sexual abuse. Did this happen in Christines case? Perhaps.
If you believe that no Christines sexual exploitation did not put her at a higher risk for this crime then youre really arguing that it was just a coincidence that this horrible thing happened to Christine prior to this crime. That would mean that this was a total stranger abduction and that Christine did not know her abductor - had no connection to her abductor. She just ran into the wrong person at the wrong time.
Coincidences do happen, but when one adds up all the coincidences that had to fall into place for this little girl to be left alone and then abducted as she was on October 3, 1984 it seems highly unlikely.
What is tragic to me is this. If there is a cause-effect correlation between the sexual abuse in Richmond Hill and her abduction and murder then where does that place those responsible for the earlier abuse? What degree of responsibility do they hold? Can we really just say, They were just young kids and they didnt really know what they were doing? Absolve them?
I can not presume to be in a position where I can make that kind of moral judgement. I will just pose the question. However, I think it's been answered for us:
I honestly think if it hadnt been that day it would have been another. Bob Jessop
Do you think that if Christine had never been sexually exploited before the familys move to Queensville, this crime would have occurred?
The answer(s) to that question (both yes or no) are potentially powerful lines of thought. To phrase the question another way: Did her sexual exploitation put her at a higher risk, and if so, why? How?
I shall attempt an answer now to my own question -- and this will require speculation, but Ill try to keep it logical.
News of Christines sexual exploitation in Richmond Hill by the brothers may have travelled along a grapevine to the person who would end up abducting her. This person may have been on the peripherals, or the outer most orbit of that particular sphere of danger. This person could have been a friend of a friend of one of the brothers (or, some such person) and may have learned of Christines compliance with older males. This could have fuelled a sick fantasy involving his turn with her.
Makin suggests rather explicitly in Redrum that Christines sexual experiences with the older boys may have altered her behaviour in certain ways -- that she knowingly or unknowingly sent off false signals of maturity (he writes specifically of Christines apparent interest in older men) and knowledge about sex beyond her years.
If Christine was in the park, or the fire hall, or some other place where there were males, she may have given off these false signals of maturity and this could have ignited the interest of the perpetrator. Some research studies suggest that some abductors are able to hone in on children with low self esteem and victims of sexual abuse. Did this happen in Christines case? Perhaps.
If you believe that no Christines sexual exploitation did not put her at a higher risk for this crime then youre really arguing that it was just a coincidence that this horrible thing happened to Christine prior to this crime. That would mean that this was a total stranger abduction and that Christine did not know her abductor - had no connection to her abductor. She just ran into the wrong person at the wrong time.
Coincidences do happen, but when one adds up all the coincidences that had to fall into place for this little girl to be left alone and then abducted as she was on October 3, 1984 it seems highly unlikely.
What is tragic to me is this. If there is a cause-effect correlation between the sexual abuse in Richmond Hill and her abduction and murder then where does that place those responsible for the earlier abuse? What degree of responsibility do they hold? Can we really just say, They were just young kids and they didnt really know what they were doing? Absolve them?
I can not presume to be in a position where I can make that kind of moral judgement. I will just pose the question. However, I think it's been answered for us:
I honestly think if it hadnt been that day it would have been another. Bob Jessop
Dedpanman
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In regards to the DNA and the DNA data bank issue, perhaps we should all submit an "Access to Information Request" to the RCMP and see if we can get a unanimous answer from them? The question for them: Was the DNA from the semen found on Christine's Jessop's underwear successfully used to create a DNA profile, and is that profile currently in the RCMP data base?
From the RCMP website:
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police Access to Information and Privacy Branch (ATIP) provides formal responses to access to information requests under the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act.
The Access to Information Act
The Access to Information Act gives both individuals and corporations present in Canada the right to seek access to federally controlled information and records.
How to submit a request:
To make an Access to Information request, you may either submit your request on the RCMP specific form, the Treasury Board form or by writing a letter outlining what it is you are requesting and sending it to:
RCMP Mail Stop #61
73 Leikin Drive
Ottawa Ontario
K1A 0R2
Please note:
Although we do not need an original signature on an Access request, there is a processing fee of $5.00 which is needed before work is started. Payment can be made by cheque or money order to The Receiver General of Canada, or by cash. We cannot accept credit cards.
As with Privacy Act requests, every individual who is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident within Canada , as well as businesses and corporations within the country are permitted to make an Access to Information request.
If you are not a Canadian citizen or permanent resident and you require information you will need to find a representative that falls within the above noted criteria.
In the event that you are a Canadian citizen living outside of the country , please provide proof of citizenship with your request, in the form of a photocopy of your birth certificate or passport.
Here's a PDF of the form:
From the RCMP website:
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police Access to Information and Privacy Branch (ATIP) provides formal responses to access to information requests under the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act.
The Access to Information Act
The Access to Information Act gives both individuals and corporations present in Canada the right to seek access to federally controlled information and records.
How to submit a request:
To make an Access to Information request, you may either submit your request on the RCMP specific form, the Treasury Board form or by writing a letter outlining what it is you are requesting and sending it to:
RCMP Mail Stop #61
73 Leikin Drive
Ottawa Ontario
K1A 0R2
Please note:
Although we do not need an original signature on an Access request, there is a processing fee of $5.00 which is needed before work is started. Payment can be made by cheque or money order to The Receiver General of Canada, or by cash. We cannot accept credit cards.
As with Privacy Act requests, every individual who is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident within Canada , as well as businesses and corporations within the country are permitted to make an Access to Information request.
If you are not a Canadian citizen or permanent resident and you require information you will need to find a representative that falls within the above noted criteria.
In the event that you are a Canadian citizen living outside of the country , please provide proof of citizenship with your request, in the form of a photocopy of your birth certificate or passport.
Here's a PDF of the form:
Good explanation you gave for your question dedpm. I would have to agree and it was a good starting point.
re:
That statement has been the source of much conjecture. Do you believe it was the link to the earlier sexual abuse that brought him to this conclusion? Is this what he was referring to?
The connection between Christine's abusers and their high ranking uncle /Police officer along with the older cousin is a big can of worms to deal with in the grand sceme of things.
Maybe someone will get some "new" results from a foi request but I suspect what has been published before would merely be reiterated again. Last time I attempted to go that route, it took two years before I received a few whited out pages. Meanwhile I believe there is a news article stating the official stance on this issue? Believe the answer or not, but I doubt it will change.
The earlier and more prolonged the abuse, the greater the rewiring in the child. It has noticeable consequences.
re:
That statement has been the source of much conjecture. Do you believe it was the link to the earlier sexual abuse that brought him to this conclusion? Is this what he was referring to?
The connection between Christine's abusers and their high ranking uncle /Police officer along with the older cousin is a big can of worms to deal with in the grand sceme of things.
Maybe someone will get some "new" results from a foi request but I suspect what has been published before would merely be reiterated again. Last time I attempted to go that route, it took two years before I received a few whited out pages. Meanwhile I believe there is a news article stating the official stance on this issue? Believe the answer or not, but I doubt it will change.
Dedpanman
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Thank-you Dedpanman, there is a lot to compare.
It's been the assumption among my family that WPS might have been abused since it was happening in that particular household.
I'm blown away by your possible 'grapevine' method - it exists between WPS and the Jessops other than the firehall. I knew about the possible grapevine method before I knew about the firehall.
When trying to relate this possibility and the exact route of the grapevine to Neale Tweedy, he refused to acknowledge that route existed by twisting and turning my words upside down. This from someone glad to report to an audience what a seasoned investigator they are? While some homicide detectives at Toronto Police Service wanted that on tape, some(one) did not.
Thank-you for bringing that forward.
It's been the assumption among my family that WPS might have been abused since it was happening in that particular household.
I'm blown away by your possible 'grapevine' method - it exists between WPS and the Jessops other than the firehall. I knew about the possible grapevine method before I knew about the firehall.
When trying to relate this possibility and the exact route of the grapevine to Neale Tweedy, he refused to acknowledge that route existed by twisting and turning my words upside down. This from someone glad to report to an audience what a seasoned investigator they are? While some homicide detectives at Toronto Police Service wanted that on tape, some(one) did not.
Thank-you for bringing that forward.
On asking the RCMP about a name that coincides with a profile in their database -
The RCMP can tell you about their equipment but they are not suppose to know the names of anyone in their database - victim or perp. It protects the integrity and unauthorized use of the information. Each profile has a number and police force assigned to it - when a match occurs, the police force is contacted.
One has to ask the police force assigned to the case for specific info on what they have submitted to the database.
The RCMP can tell you about their equipment but they are not suppose to know the names of anyone in their database - victim or perp. It protects the integrity and unauthorized use of the information. Each profile has a number and police force assigned to it - when a match occurs, the police force is contacted.
One has to ask the police force assigned to the case for specific info on what they have submitted to the database.
Dedpanman
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Im intrigued by the possibility that the perpetrator was someone on the peripherals of Christines spheres (a sphere being a major location in her life Im referencing my goofy diagram from a previous post). Perhaps this someone was only at the park once and saw her, or he was someone who had heard from a friend about this wise little girl who was into doing things with older boys. Christine may not have ever known the persons name maybe she just saw him in association with other people she knew or not at all. I dont know but it does suggest a reason why this person has never popped up onto the police radar was never an A list suspect. Hes almost invisible, hovering around in the background with only a tenuous association with the Jessops or Christine.
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