Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

[MsBetsy]

On page 29 of this thread, Tadpole 12 posted Ken’s quote that they were neighbours in Richmond Hill. They were not neighbours with Hoover in Queensville. I guess that’s why he escaped suspicion.

According to the 1984 case files, Hoover was a POI at one time but was never named a suspect. LE already seemed to have their minds up early on about Morin so they probably would not have questioned Hoover's alibi. I do wonder where he said he was that night and if they ever confirmed it with anyone else.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Just a few comments:

KJ's press statements reconstructing the relationship with the Hoovers, and the phone call with HH, IMO have been made after lengthy conversations with his mother. Obviously he wouldn't remember it, but she might (or might mis-remember, after all this time)

IMO CH would have been able to see at a glance that no was at home waiting for CJ because there was no car in the driveway.

However, I don't see why it matters, since no one missed CJ even when they did come home. She could have been playing with her friend at the park and no one was concerned for quite a long time.

IMO, the key point is, no one witnessed the abduction. IMO any other 'witness' statements attempting to reconstruct the crime, about CJ buying gum, or her jacket being hung up high, or not being seen by people in a trailer, etc, are simply useless, they were added by people who didn't witness anything but felt very upset that something bad happened without them seeing it. IMO these 'I didn't witness anything but I think I remember x' statements always confuse and complicate cases because they're usually inaccurate and unreliable. Unless there are multiple independent witnesses that can confirm something, I don't think any theory of the crime is required to take them into account.

The sure thing is she got off the bus with the recorder, and her body was found with the recorder.

This detail of the recorder being found beside her remains indicates to me she was taken straight to the site where her body was found. What kidnapper would bother keeping track of it, if he'd taken her somewhere else first.

I agree with you that KJ reconstructed the events after conversations with his mother. In one of the news reports, it noted that CJ had her recorder with her when she was at the store, which leads me to consider she was picked up in an instant even before she got home from the store.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree with you that KJ reconstructed the events after conversations with his mother. In one of the news reports, it noted that CJ had her recorder with her when she was at the store, which leads me to consider she was picked up in an instant even before she got home from the store.

Yes, I think she was planning on taking the recorder with her to the park. Originally her friend said that they were going to play with their cabbage patch dolls, but the recorder was new and she was said to be especially excited about it.

 

[Keswick84]

If the two detectives were as bad as it seems they were then they may not even have questioned Hoover. Further, it's quite possible that Hoover taking part in the search efforts and attending the funeral eliminated him as a suspect in the cops' minds. They noted that Morin did the opposite and used it against him.

 

[MsBetsy]

If the two detectives were as bad as it seems they were then they may not even have questioned Hoover. Further, it's quite possible that Hoover taking part in the search efforts and attending the funeral eliminated him as a suspect in the cops' minds. They noted that Morin did the opposite and used it against him.

Well, if he was a POI I would hope they spoke to him. They interviewed just about everyone else who knew the family, as well as many others in the community. One witness was so convinced Morin was guilty that she said she almost did "flips and cartwheels" when she found out he was charged. Like so many others, she thought he was weird because he lived with his parents and had his own beehives in the backyard. Imo

 

[LylienTuc]

Just a few comments:

KJ's press statements reconstructing the relationship with the Hoovers, and the phone call with HH, IMO have been made after lengthy conversations with his mother. Obviously he wouldn't remember it, but she might (or might mis-remember, after all this time)

IMO CH would have been able to see at a glance that no was at home waiting for CJ because there was no car in the driveway.

However, I don't see why it matters, since no one missed CJ even when they did come home. She could have been playing with her friend at the park and no one was concerned for quite a long time.

IMO, the key point is, no one witnessed the abduction. IMO any other 'witness' statements attempting to reconstruct the crime, about CJ buying gum, or her jacket being hung up high, or not being seen by people in a trailer, etc, are simply useless, they were added by people who didn't witness anything but felt very upset that something bad happened without them seeing it. IMO these 'I didn't witness anything but I think I remember x' statements always confuse and complicate cases because they're usually inaccurate and unreliable. Unless there are multiple independent witnesses that can confirm something, I don't think any theory of the crime is required to take them into account.

The sure thing is she got off the bus with the recorder, and her body was found with the recorder.

This detail of the recorder being found beside her remains indicates to me she was taken straight to the site where her body was found. What kidnapper would bother keeping track of it, if he'd taken her somewhere else first.

that’s exactly my point. The trailer owners said they saw absolutely nothing around the time she was abducted and until they closed their trailer but their path was passing exactly through where her body was located. They saw nothing at all.
Also as a little girl I think the last thing she would want is let go of her recorder, the only thing that is remotely related to where she feels safe. It’s wrong to assume that she was immediately stripped naked and tortured or raped. She could have stayed elsewhere and then brought to the woods where the rape and murder unfolded. Possibly few days after the day her parents found out she was missing
Also it is very possible that the rape prior was done without much resistance with the promises she will be returned home. Then when he was done he brought her to the woods where he could hide the body at once

 

[LylienTuc]

Just a few comments:

KJ's press statements reconstructing the relationship with the Hoovers, and the phone call with HH, IMO have been made after lengthy conversations with his mother. Obviously he wouldn't remember it, but she might (or might mis-remember, after all this time)

IMO CH would have been able to see at a glance that no was at home waiting for CJ because there was no car in the driveway.

However, I don't see why it matters, since no one missed CJ even when they did come home. She could have been playing with her friend at the park and no one was concerned for quite a long time.

IMO, the key point is, no one witnessed the abduction. IMO any other 'witness' statements attempting to reconstruct the crime, about CJ buying gum, or her jacket being hung up high, or not being seen by people in a trailer, etc, are simply useless, they were added by people who didn't witness anything but felt very upset that something bad happened without them seeing it. IMO these 'I didn't witness anything but I think I remember x' statements always confuse and complicate cases because they're usually inaccurate and unreliable. Unless there are multiple independent witnesses that can confirm something, I don't think any theory of the crime is required to take them into account.

The sure thing is she got off the bus with the recorder, and her body was found with the recorder.

This detail of the recorder being found beside her remains indicates to me she was taken straight to the site where her body was found. What kidnapper would bother keeping track of it, if he'd taken her somewhere else first.

Also according to Janet after an hour and a half from arrival home they already suspected something since by that time they already checked parks and all places where she could have been that including calling friends
In my opinion it is not a long time.

quotes :

“I knew something wasn’t right then,” she said. “About an hour and a half after we got home I thought this isn’t right – she’d be maybe hiding somewhere, playing a game, something like that. I got a little concerned then when you can’t find her anywhere, in the park, along the street, you know there’s something wrong.”

 

[MsBetsy]

that’s exactly my point. The trailer owners said they saw absolutely nothing around the time she was abducted and until they closed their trailer but their path was passing exactly through where her body was located. They saw nothing at all.
Also as a little girl I think the last thing she would want is let go of her recorder, the only thing that is remotely related to where she feels safe. It’s wrong to assume that she was immediately stripped naked and tortured or raped. She could have stayed elsewhere and then brought to the woods where the rape and murder unfolded. Possibly few days after the day her parents found out she was missing
Also it is very possible that the rape prior was done without much resistance with the promises she will be returned home. Then when he was done he brought her to the woods where he could hide the body at once

In Christine's earlier thread from 2012, her brother K Jessup confirmed that during the trials the defense experts proved, and the Crown's agreed, that her body was left in that location on October 3rd.

Also, neighbors reported that they heard screams that night but unfortunately didn't call police. The screaming was heard at the time Morin was home with his family, but investigators believed that his alibi was concocted by Morin, his brother-in-law, his sister and his parents.

 

[LylienTuc]

In Christine's earlier thread from 2012, her brother K Jessup confirmed that during the trials the defense experts proved, and the Crown's agreed, that her body was left in that location on October 3rd.

Also, neighbors reported that they heard screams that night but unfortunately didn't call police. The screaming was heard at the time Morin was home with his family, but investigators believed that his alibi was concocted by Morin, his brother-in-law, his sister and his parents.

I really wish that these documents were made public. At that time I am not sure they could prove through state of decomposition that she was there October 3rd instead of 5th for example. What two additional days do in a matter of three months? Unless there was some other evidence?


also the mentioned screams were heard by the houses next to the woods?

I am not sure that their testimony would be more believable than the testimony of the trailer located next to where christine’s body was found.


Thanks

 

[SolVic]

CH was born in Toronto in 1956

You have his obituary?

 

[Forest_Wood]

Also according to Janet after an hour and a half from arrival home they already suspected something since by that time they already checked parks and all places where she could have been that including calling friends
In my opinion it is not a long time.

Life was different in the 80s when kids were able to roam more freely than today, especially in a country setting. I agree an hour and a half is not a long time to expect Christine was still at the park or somewhere else with her friend. It takes time for the circumstances to register that something isn’t right. Nothing seemed out of place at first because CJ was still thought to be out playing, something she likely did almost daily after school. Her little friend was probably still at the park waiting for Christine when Janet Jessop arrived home. JJ likely began making supper, etc, thinking Christine would be home any minute like any other day — and then as the minutes ticked by, JJ began calling her friends to have her come home for supper. I would think her friend would have waited quite some time for her to show up before she even made her way home to tell her mom that Christine never showed up. It wouldn’t have been an automatic call to the police.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Yes, I think she was planning on taking the recorder with her to the park. Originally her friend said that they were going to play with their cabbage patch dolls, but the recorder was new and she was said to be especially excited about it.

I wonder if her cabbage patch doll was also found with her?

 

[Forest_Wood]

Also, neighbors reported that they heard screams that night but unfortunately didn't call police. The screaming was heard at the time Morin was home with his family, but investigators believed that his alibi was concocted by Morin, his brother-in-law, his sister and his parents.

Were these neighbours of where she was found or where she lived?

 

[MsBetsy]

Were these neighbours of where she was found or where she lived?

Where she was found. There is no mention of exactly where they lived, just that they lived nearby. They heard the screams at night but I don't know if they mentioned a time.

 

[MsBetsy]

Delete, double post.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder if her cabbage patch doll was also found with her?

No, it was found in the house. I believe it was buried with her. Imo

 

[Wondergirl]

You have his obituary?

No, but, I have genealogical information that he was born in 1956 in Toronto, Ontario and his registered name is Calvin Dana Hoover.

Here is his record for marrying JR in Nevada in 2003 for the timeline.

Dana is his middle name, as referenced by 2 different Hoover family trees - Calvin Dana Hoover born 1956 in Toronto, Ontario, CA.

Nevada, Marriage Index, 1956-2005
MARRIAGE & DIVORCE
Record information.
Name
Calvin Dana Hoover
Spouse
Joanne Rocca
Marriage
18/08/2003 (18 Aug 2003) Clark

 

[SolVic]

No, but, I have genealogical information that he was born in 1956 in Toronto, Ontario and his registered name is Calvin Dana Hoover.

Here is his record for marrying JR in Nevada in 2003 for the timeline.

Dana is his middle name, as referenced by 2 different Hoover family trees - Calvin Dana Hoover born 1956 in Toronto, Ontario, CA.

Nevada, Marriage Index, 1956-2005
MARRIAGE & DIVORCE
Record information.
Name
Calvin Dana Hoover
Spouse
Joanne Rocca
Marriage
18/08/2003 (18 Aug 2003) Clark

You’re positively sure it’s the same guy?

 

[Wondergirl]

You’re positively sure it’s the same guy?

Yes. I previously linked his 2nd wife Joanne Rocca's obituary, it may have been removed, or you missed it?

 

[MsBetsy]

I really wish that these documents were made public. At that time I am not sure they could prove through state of decomposition that she was there October 3rd instead of 5th for example. What two additional days do in a matter of three months? Unless there was some other evidence?


also the mentioned screams were heard by the houses next to the woods?

I am not sure that their testimony would be more believable than the testimony of the trailer located next to where christine’s body was found.


Thanks

Many children who are abducted and murdered are killed within two or three hours and most within 24 hours.

I believe he took her to the secluded area and tortured and killed her there.
He was married with two children and I don't think he would have spent any more time than he had to away from his family.

I don't know exactly what the experts testimony was but Christine's brother seemed to be satisfied since he pointed out that both sides agreed and it was never disputed. Maybe it was a combination of evidence at the crime scene and the autopsy findings. They are still investigating so I hope we hear more about the ex-wifes account of his whereabouts that day and especially what time he got home that night. That should firm up the timeline.

I don't know if the neighbors who heard the screaming lived in the trailer or somewhere else in the area. There is a huge amount of information in the old thread, though. There are probably more specific details there. There is also mention of the man who smelled a foul odor in late October. He said he thought it had something to do with the goats but was never able to find the source. I don't know if that was the man who owned the trailer or not. I'll have to go back and check again, but the screaming heard by the neighbors was also mentioned in one of the documents. I think it was part of the inquiry or the commissioners findings but investigators were aware of the neighbors account early on.

IMO