Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

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Woodland said:
Is it possible to resolve this discrepancy?

From thread #1, page 41, post #1020 by KJ

He drove the blue car that was seen at the end of our driveway the day Christine went missing.

From thread #1, page 42, post #1038 by KJ

Who saw the blue car at the end of your driveway on 3 October 1984?

Mrs gibson the school bus driver and Two of JP's daughters. All reported to york, in fact they were brought down to the pretrial for the second trial.

From thread #2, page 9, post #221 by KJ

But I believe he waited at the end of the driveway where the car was seen

From thread #2, page 11, post #260 by KJ

As i have addressed this SO MANY TIMES BEFORE The car was seen on the east side of leslie on the side of the road facing north... The witnessed gave statements... the next day

Where was JP's car? In the driveway or on Leslie Street?
Click to expand...

I have answered these questions very clearly....
 
Dedpanman said:
University of Toronto Library seems to have Fifth Estate episodes going back as far as 1994... But, that's no help. Perhaps there's another university library out there with the program in their collection?
Click to expand...

Heyya Dedpanman,

I made a few checks as well, within the public Library system,
some locations in Ontario do have 'the fifth estate' episodes, but most have only the more recent ones on dvd.

It will be a hard find.
 
Dedpanman said:
University of Toronto Library seems to have Fifth Estate episodes going back as far as 1994... But, that's no help. Perhaps there's another university library out there with the program in their collection?
Click to expand...

Should be able to check Amicus it is free - just make sure you choose all librairies not just the National Library.

But I should be able to find - can someone remind exactly what we are looking for?
 
I believe R - JP did not have any stepdaughters or a stepson and lived in an apartment with one bio daughter at the corner of Q'ville SR and Leslie St. I don't know how old JP or the bio daughter was in 1984 - I didn't ask.
'Oh my god' doesn't cut it to refute R's information, imo.

I only told R what was being posted about JP, I didn't tell him who was doing the posting. No bias in the questions, no bias in the answers.
 
You have probably noticed that I have been a silent member for some time. I always sign in--so please don't think that I am the person who "stalks" posters from one thread to another. :) Actually, my computer skills are so dismal, I couldn't do it even if I wanted to, and who does that anyway?

I follow a few cases on WS, and I have to say that I am so impressed with the quality of poster's input, that I feel almost anything that I might add, is negligible.

But, I have to agree with the poster who thinks that Christine's brother should be heard first and foremost, and it is obvious (to me) who and what drives him away. He made it VERY plain that referrals to graphic descriptions relating to his sister's autopsy is traumatic for him. I can understand that. Yet, some members ignored this and carried on with the "gory" details and questions. He left. He only came back to repute some gory autopsy details. He left again. He just came back again to call out the lame response from the gory autopsy poster. Is it that difficult to empathize with a family member? I can totally understand why KJ left, even though he desperately wanted to correct the wrong information that he thinks has been reported by one member, and false and unknown info shared by the public at large.

Deadpanman--would you be willing to take over questions for KJ, as you planned? Ken--would you have the patience and stamina to respond to questions, even though you think you have already answered them? Woodland, would you take a break and let this communication happen, uninterrupted, so we can hear everything that Ken has to say? I just want to give him a chance, as an insider, without pressing his buttons (which is easy to do) to contribute to our knowledge of Christine's case. I'm not proposing that everything Ken thinks is fact, but I do know that an "insider" knows more than us. Way more than us.

Well--that's my first post on WS. Hope I didn't offend anybody. :)
 
Perhaps also if someone has the time to go through questions Ken already answered and compile a list of things that do not need to be asked, and a list that requires more clarification?
I come to read in hopes that there may soon be some resolution and justice for this sweet little girl, but find many roadblocks caused by bickering unfortunately.
 
Woodland said:
The Fifth Estate advertises their 'Odd Man Out' episode to have been an interview with GPM.

While there might be some shots speaking to others, the theme is GPM and his experience.

Not so sure waiting for that to appear will help with very much in light of what we know happened re the JP statements.
Click to expand...

The episode is more than just that. It's a 1 hour documentary that is part interview with GPM, but there's some Fifth Estate detective work in there too. KJessop has stated that The Fifth Estate have the Horwoods definitively placed at Leslie and Ravenshoe. Also, KJessop has stated that the program begins with a crime scene photo... Sounds like important stuff to me... But, the chances of finding a copy are slim to none.
 
The Fifth Estate left out any mention or reference to the Horwood's in their last episode on CJ's case, yet they had Mangano covering events at both corners (Leslie at Q'ville SR and Ravenshoe Rd).

What exactly is in the 'Odd Man Out' episode will be interesting.
 
Also, KJessop has stated that the program begins with a crime scene photo... Sounds like important stuff to me... But, the chances of finding a copy are slim to none.
Click to expand...

I am beginning to agree. No amount of digging gets past the original source and the 5th does not seem to want a copy made public. Very strange situation especially in light of the implications. If the odd man out episode predated the Kaufman inquiry, and that information has been silenced, that is big. There is ammunition in that for others to build on in ways not yet fully explored. If we or future researchers are to make any headway, we need to know. To lay the groundwork I asked and offered to pay Ken for a copy of the source material he has. That request got lost in the latest barrage of questions and insinuations.

W. if you can desist for a while perhaps dedpanman can make some time to compile questions on the real outstanding issues. as per casesesitives suggestion.

W. If you wish to make your case, an anonymous person answering a phone questioned by one person without witness or verification gets you no where. To push it on Ken on those grounds, casts a poor light on judgement in all ways. Did you record the conversation? Do you have a transcript showing the manner the questions were posed? Can you verify the persons identity? Can you obtain a signed affidavit? No answer required here but perhaps it will give you something to do in the meantime.

Ken I realize it has been difficult and I am just just asking to purchase copies from you so that others can continue on without bothering you over and over again. Either the transcripts of the Horwoods or the 5th episode or any source material on that subject is of importance no matter what it reveals. Silence from the 5th estate is all we have. The inquiry itself has apparently been circumvented and corrupted. Huge issues, the evidence of it possibly in your hands?

Forget W. and all that Ken and lets put the final pieces in place for others to continue on in truth and good will while we are still able. The day will come when we may no longer be so able..
 
Read a few follow-up stories today on the Fifth Estate episode 'Odd Man Out' aired on 1 Dec 1992 - from The Toronto Star and the K-W Record.

The reason a tape of this episode is hard to come by is the immediate threat the CBC was under for airing this story which included interviews with 3 jurors that convicted GPM earlier in 1992. CBC and the producer faced the possibility of charges under a rarely if ever used law against probing jurors on what happened during deliberations. The charges never came as it was determined jurors in Canada can in fact give an account of their feelings during and after deliberations, which is in part what the episode was about.

For those that can, see the Toronto Star Pages of the Past 1-4 Dec 1992, and the KW Record on the same dates.

The people listed as appearing in this episode are - GPM (from jail), juror AB (Bell Canada technician), juror GC (grocery store clerk), juror HD (employment not listed) and Mrs DA (wife of a possible suspect, convicted of child molestation).

The jurors viewed a re-enactment the Fifth Estate made of other possible suspects (Mrs DA's estranged husband being one of them). This re-enactment is referred to as an investigation by the FE.

No one else is referred to in either paper as being included or interviewed in this episode.
 
I may have located a copy of "Odd Man Out". Will keep everyone posted if I manage to get my hands on it. This will take a few weeks.
 
Woodland said:
The people listed as appearing in this episode are - GPM (from jail), juror AB (Bell Canada technician), juror GC (grocery store clerk), juror HD (employment not listed) and Mrs DA (wife of a possible suspect, convicted of child molestation).
Click to expand...

I believe that parts of "Odd Man Out" were used in the recent Fifth Estate episode "Kingston Pen: Secrets and Lies" broadcast Friday, September 21, 2012. (This is the episode that had a segment on GPM... and a separate segment on Basil Mangano and his perspective on the Christine Jessop case.) I believe that the brief interview clips with KJessop featured in that episode may also have been from "Odd Man Out".

However, I could be wrong, as there was another Fifth Estate episode called, "Beyond A Shadow Of A Doubt" that explored Morin's ten year battle with the Canadian justice system.
Original air date: Sunday, July 02, 1995.

Could KJessop verify that...?
 
Something seems off with the timing, now that we know exactly what 'Odd Man Out' was about.

Besides interviewing GPM for the first time since his conviction, The Fifth Estate was re-enacting for 3 of the jurors the evidence regarding other possible suspects - something the jurors did not know 4 months prior. The tide was turning with the public and people were now believing an innocent man was behind bars.

What were the Jessop's saying in that episode about the blue car at Ravenshoe Road among other things? That they now thought GPM was innocent? Or was the blue car etc pointing to GPM's guilt?

I can see the Jessop's talking about a blue car at Ravenshoe Road etc after the 1995 DNA exoneration, when there was no longer anyone accountable for the crime, but before?
 
Would the police have not checked the telephone records to substantiate Leslies story. Just a thought.
 
"Christine only had one Cabbage Patch Doll. She never took it out of the house. She was buried with it. It was her confidant. Her best friend. And is with her still..."

Her "best friend" was a stuffed bunny named Thumper also the Cabbage Patch Doll was not buried with her. It was still in her room when the Star interviewed Mom.
 
You should check your facts Mistysues - you have posted some misinformation.
 
Mistysues said:
"Christine only had one Cabbage Patch Doll. She never took it out of the house. She was buried with it. It was her confidant. Her best friend. And is with her still..."

Her "best friend" was a stuffed bunny named Thumper also the Cabbage Patch Doll was not buried with her. It was still in her room when the Star interviewed Mom.
Click to expand...

Heyya Mistysues,

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...rdered_daughter_christine_all_over_again.html
Published on Wed Aug 15 2012

"Nearby are stuffed bears and rabbits, including Christine’s favorite toy, a stuffed bunny named Thumper. There are also several little plaster angels."
 
Woodland said:
Read a few follow-up stories today on the Fifth Estate episode 'Odd Man Out' aired on 1 Dec 1992 - from The Toronto Star and the K-W Record.

The reason a tape of this episode is hard to come by is the immediate threat the CBC was under for airing this story which included interviews with 3 jurors that convicted GPM earlier in 1992. CBC and the producer faced the possibility of charges under a rarely if ever used law against probing jurors on what happened during deliberations. The charges never came as it was determined jurors in Canada can in fact give an account of their feelings during and after deliberations, which is in part what the episode was about.

For those that can, see the Toronto Star Pages of the Past 1-4 Dec 1992, and the KW Record on the same dates.

The people listed as appearing in this episode are - GPM (from jail), juror AB (Bell Canada technician), juror GC (grocery store clerk), juror HD (employment not listed) and Mrs DA (wife of a possible suspect, convicted of child molestation).

The jurors viewed a re-enactment the Fifth Estate made of other possible suspects (Mrs DA's estranged husband being one of them). This re-enactment is referred to as an investigation by the FE.

No one else is referred to in either paper as being included or interviewed in this episode.
Click to expand...

Heyya woodland,
ty.

the Toronto Star Pages of the Past 1-4 Dec 1992, and the KW Record on the same dates:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/thestar...ay=04&toyear=1992&By=&Title=&publications=ALL
 
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