Canada - Coronavirus COVID-19 #3

[MistyWaters]

It is important to remember that the @FreedomConvoy2022 is anti-vaccine mandates, not anti-vaccine. Many of us are against the former, but not the latter.

I always thought of PET as a statesman, in the best sense of the word, and not as a politician, in the worst sense of the word. He really struggled with the decision to institute the War Measures Act when Pierre LaPorte, deputy premier of Quebec, was kidnapped and murdered by the FLQ. These were true acts of terrorism, and Pierre Elliott Trudeau had no other choice, as bombs were being placed in mailboxes and other terrorist activities were taking place. I remember looking out our window where we lived on the south shore of Montreal, and seeing tanks in the streets during the curfew that was implemented.

A year earlier, Pierre LaPorte was the rep for our provincial electoral district, and he had sent me a letter congratulating me on some award I had received. I still have the letter, and treasure it in his memory.

The FLQ was during a dark period in history we would all hope is in the past.

It’s true, there’s a difference between those who are anti-vaxers and those who don’t support vaccine mandates. And within both groups are subgroups - those who belief we deserve freedom of choice within our democratic society and the conspiracy believers who believe the vaccine is a facade by “the government” to nefariously inject altered DNA or some kind of tracking mechanism into people’s body.

 

[Sundog]

The FLQ was during a dark period in history we would all hope is in the past.

It’s true, there’s a difference between those who are anti-vaxers and those who don’t support vaccine mandates. And within both groups are subgroups - those who belief we deserve freedom of choice within our democratic society and the conspiracy believers who believe the vaccine is a facade by “the government” to nefariously inject altered DNA or some kind of tracking mechanism into people’s body.

Yes, there are extremists among the anti-vaxxers and the pro-vaxxers, and the anti-mandate folks and the pro-mandate folks. I see the more measured response by the anti-mandate folks. They seem to be the more tolerant group in the mix.

 

[Kaley Smith]

Yes, there are extremists among the anti-vaxxers and the pro-vaxxers, and the anti-mandate folks and the pro-mandate folks. I see the more measured response by the anti-mandate folks. They seem to be the more tolerant group in the mix.

Well I don't see that group as tolerant because I've known only rude, nasty anti-vaxxers who have threatened bodily harm to people, including threatening to burn my friend's house down if she posts any pro-vaccine stuff (on her own FB page!) . Another was told children of Covid- vaccinated parents will no longer be allowed in her daycare because they are shedding germs which could harm her unborn child etc etc. Another friend was shoved and spit on for wearing a mask (the former happened in Canada; the latter in the USA).

The incessant honking by truckers in Ottawa is not very tolerant I'd say. I also haven't seen any pro-vaxxers carrying swaztika flags or other hate symbols. Meanwhile the Ottawa citizens have been very patient, but enough is enough. "Tooting a horn is not an expression of any great thought I'm aware of," said Justice Hugh McLean during a court hearing in Ottawa Monday, and he has ordered a 10-day injunction to stop the noise.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/injunction-ottawa-granted-1.6342468

 

[LadyL]

Meta says it removed scammers' Canada convoy Facebook groups

 

[casesensitive]

The FLQ was during a dark period in history we would all hope is in the past.

It’s true, there’s a difference between those who are anti-vaxers and those who don’t support vaccine mandates. And within both groups are subgroups - those who belief we deserve freedom of choice within our democratic society and the conspiracy believers who believe the vaccine is a facade by “the government” to nefariously inject altered DNA or some kind of tracking mechanism into people’s body.

I know that the conspiracy theorists are a limited group. Unfortunately, my long time Lebanese home cleaner, and dear friend, thought that the Canadian government was intentionally trying to kill us by injecting us with poison, and wouldn't get vaccinated. I have to stay ultra safe in order to be in my daughter's bubble (organ transplant recipient) and it broke my heart to let her go.

I have a problem with vaccine cards if a third dose is required. Unfortunately, I have a few family members who have had cardiac episodes (one died from a stroke 2 weeks after his second vaccine, another is a young, healthy man who has experienced heart problems which were confirmed by tests) and one who has experienced ongoing, serious affects after getting both vaccines. Although this is rare, there are people who should never get a booster even though they initially wanted one. Because it can't be medically "proven" that the vaccine caused their problems, they can't get a medical pass. So they would be restricted in many areas if a booster was added to vaccine cards, which is unfair in their cases.

These are examples of people who weren't anti-vaxxers, but will have to become anti-mandate folks. They have fallen through the gap where it is one rule for everyone. Something to think about.

 

[Kaley Smith]

Worth a listen in my opinion and some thought as to what kind of a Canada we want: Vitriol, threats against journalists arise amid disruptive convoy protests | Watch News Videos Online

 

[Sundog]

Worth a listen in my opinion and some thought as to what kind of a Canada we want: Vitriol, threats against journalists arise amid disruptive convoy protests | Watch News Videos Online

The kind of Canada we want will be based on the voters in the elections, and that remains to be seen during the next election cycle - not on the views of journalists. It's unfortunate, but the media has lost the trust of many people, based on biased reporting of the facts, rather than presenting just the facts, and both sides of any issues when discussed.

 

[MistyWaters]

I know that the conspiracy theorists are a limited group. Unfortunately, my long time Lebanese home cleaner, and dear friend, thought that the Canadian government was intentionally trying to kill us by injecting us with poison, and wouldn't get vaccinated. I have to stay ultra safe in order to be in my daughter's bubble (organ transplant recipient) and it broke my heart to let her go.

I have a problem with vaccine cards if a third dose is required. Unfortunately, I have a few family members who have had cardiac episodes (one died from a stroke 2 weeks after his second vaccine, another is a young, healthy man who has experienced heart problems which were confirmed by tests) and one who has experienced ongoing, serious affects after getting both vaccines. Although this is rare, there are people who should never get a booster even though they initially wanted one. Because it can't be medically "proven" that the vaccine caused their problems, they can't get a medical pass. So they would be restricted in many areas if a booster was added to vaccine cards, which is unfair in their cases.

These are examples of people who weren't anti-vaxxers, but will have to become anti-mandate folks. They have fallen through the gap where it is one rule for everyone. Something to think about.

Anyone having severe health issues following a vaccine, sure would be enough to say no to more whether it’s related or now, that’s for sure. Why take the chance?

It is my strong wish that the vaccine passports are abandoned long before it comes to 3 doses required for one because they may be doing more harm than good. I think passports are giving high risk individuals a false sense of security that they’re safe from catching covid in the businesses that check. We’ve only to note hospital data to know that’s absolutely not true as fully vaccinated people with a passport can certainly pass on Omicron just as easily as the non-vaccinated, only difference is said to be the vaccinated won’t get as sick. And if they don’t get as sick, they’re probably more apt to not even know they’re contagious but their passport still opens the door.

 

[otto]

The kind of Canada we want will be based on the voters in the elections, and that remains to be seen during the next election cycle - not on the views of journalists. It's unfortunate, but the media has lost the trust of many people, based on biased reporting of the facts, rather than presenting just the facts, and both sides of any issues when discussed.

Let's not forget that Trudeau called an election well into the pandemic, giving Canadians a choice to change leadership. Canadians choose to re-elect Prime Minister Trudeau to lead the country. We don't need an election every year to confirm this.

Canadians have not lost trust in journalists. Journalists have fairly reported news. They report on the protesters honking through the night, dancing in the street, police attempts to de-escalate the situation, and they report on the distress that protesters have caused people of Ottawa and at other protest sites.

We know, through journalism, that the person behind this is the same person with involvement in the Maverick/Wexit party whose goal was to split Canada in two - to separate Western Provinces from Canada.

This protest was started in Western Canada by Tamara Lich, and it gained momentum as it crossed Canada. At the time, it's unlikely that people realized that the woman responsible for interfering with the people of Ottawa and international borders also wants to reduce Canada to two small countries, presumably with Lich leading the Western province country.

Through journalism, we know that Lich is behind the $10 million fundraiser that decided, based on evidence, that the protest is an occupation of the Capital City of Canada.

"Tamara Lich, a spokeswoman for the protestors, said she and fellow organisers had been surprised by the turnout at first "but we are now well organised and are settling in, until Canada is a free nation again".

Ms Lich runs a [fundraiser] page for the convoy that has so far raised more than C$10m ($7.9m; £5.8m), with about C$1m released so far to organisers."
​

Feb 2
Freedom Convoy: Organisers pledge to stay 'as long as it takes'

"The woman organizers describe as “the spark that lit the fire” of the truck convoy protest that has occupied downtown Ottawa is a former energy industry worker and a leader within the “Wexit” movement pushing for the independence of western provinces.
...

Lich is a former fitness instructor and sings and plays guitar in a Medicine Hat ... The Saskatchewan native was living in Medicine Hat when she became politically active three years ago with Wexit, which later merged into the Wildrose Independence Party of Alberta.
...

Lich resigned from Maverick this week to devote herself full time to the “Freedom Convoy” protest."
​

Feb 4
Who is Tamara Lich — the 'spark that lit the fire' | Ottawa Citizen

 

[musicaljoke]

One thing about mandates is that they save lives. The man in this article, for example, may still be alive if mandates for truckers had been implemented sooner. He wasn't antivaxx; he just didn't get around to getting his vaccines. He died a horrible death and left his mother heart broken.

That's just one story, but the beneficial use of mandates in public health is well documented. Of course, there are some people who will be excluded from the mandates for supportable reasons.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/trucker-protest-freedom-convoy-1.6339862

The Case for Mandating COVID-19 Vaccines for Health Care Workers

Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

 

[otto]

Federal government debate about pandemic and protesters - livestream

 

[MistyWaters]

One thing about mandates is that they save lives. The man in this article, for example, may still be alive if mandates for truckers had been implemented sooner. He wasn't antivaxx; he just didn't get around to getting his vaccines. He died a horrible death and left his mother heart broken.

That's just one story, but the beneficial use of mandates in public health is well documented. Of course, there are some people who will be excluded from the mandates for supportable reasons.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/trucker-protest-freedom-convoy-1.6339862

The Case for Mandating COVID-19 Vaccines for Health Care Workers

Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

If I was a anti-vaxer, which I’m not, I’d be concerned mandates are only the beginning of health regulations. It’s known that excess weight, smoking, alcohol and illegal drugs just for starters increase the risk of a whole host of health issues which put people in hospitals and can result in death. Is it right that the government can take away personal accountability to mandate healthy choices and if this is only the beginning, where does it end?

In Canada as we have free health care, sometimes I wonder if people have begun to overlook the fact that poor health and poor choices may prove costly.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Is CBC owned by the Canadian government?

 

[MistyWaters]

Is CBC owned by the Canadian government?

Yes, although they do collect advertising revenue as well to partially offset the cost to tax-payers.

“The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (French: Société Radio-Canada), branded as CBC/Radio-Canada, is a Canadian public broadcaster for both radio and television.[4] It is a federal Crown corporation funded by the government. The English- and French-language service units of the corporation are commonly known as CBC and Radio-Canada, respectively.”
Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - Wikipedia

“Canada’s Federal budget for 2021 focused largely on child care, recovery benefits, and old-age security, but it also addressed the CBC’s declining ad revenues, in turn proposing $21 million in “immediate operational support” for 2021-2022 to ensure the national broadcaster’s stability during the pandemic.”
CBC gets added support in federal budget

 

[deugirtni]

One thing about mandates is that they save lives. The man in this article, for example, may still be alive if mandates for truckers had been implemented sooner. He wasn't antivaxx; he just didn't get around to getting his vaccines. He died a horrible death and left his mother heart broken.

That's just one story, but the beneficial use of mandates in public health is well documented. Of course, there are some people who will be excluded from the mandates for supportable reasons.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/trucker-protest-freedom-convoy-1.6339862

The Case for Mandating COVID-19 Vaccines for Health Care Workers

Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

His friend however, heard him say he didn't believe in vaccinating... so it's possible this man lied to his elderly mother, just to not have to explain and/or defend his views? Not sure if he was a cross-border truck driver, so not sure if trucker mandates being implemented sooner would've helped him. Just wondering, what happens in a case where say, the mom didn't want him to be unplugged from life support? Would the docs eventually make that decision on her/his behalf, or would they allow him to continue taking up space in the mother's hope that he might come back to living?

ETA: Also, meant to mention.. how horrible that this woman lost all THREE of her children separately to illnesses, before her own death.

 

[deugirtni]

I know that the conspiracy theorists are a limited group. Unfortunately, my long time Lebanese home cleaner, and dear friend, thought that the Canadian government was intentionally trying to kill us by injecting us with poison, and wouldn't get vaccinated. ....

I know someone who is from another country who thinks/believes that (government trying to kill us all) as well. Shocked me. I also know a family whose young adult daughter won't come near them because they ARE vaccinated and she figures they're going to 'shed' their whatever onto her. Crazy times. imo.

 

[Satchie]

Let's not forget that Trudeau called an election well into the pandemic, giving Canadians a choice to change leadership. Canadians choose to re-elect Prime Minister Trudeau to lead the country. We don't need an election every year to confirm this.

Canadians have not lost trust in journalists. Journalists have fairly reported news. They report on the protesters honking through the night, dancing in the street, police attempts to de-escalate the situation, and they report on the distress that protesters have caused people of Ottawa and at other protest sites.

We know, through journalism, that the person behind this is the same person with involvement in the Maverick/Wexit party whose goal was to split Canada in two - to separate Western Provinces from Canada.

This protest was started in Western Canada by Tamara Lich, and it gained momentum as it crossed Canada. At the time, it's unlikely that people realized that the woman responsible for interfering with the people of Ottawa and international borders also wants to reduce Canada to two small countries, presumably with Lich leading the Western province country.

Through journalism, we know that Lich is behind the $10 million fundraiser that decided, based on evidence, that the protest is an occupation of the Capital City of Canada.

"Tamara Lich, a spokeswoman for the protestors, said she and fellow organisers had been surprised by the turnout at first "but we are now well organised and are settling in, until Canada is a free nation again".

Ms Lich runs a [fundraiser] page for the convoy that has so far raised more than C$10m ($7.9m; £5.8m), with about C$1m released so far to organisers."
​

Feb 2
Freedom Convoy: Organisers pledge to stay 'as long as it takes'

"The woman organizers describe as “the spark that lit the fire” of the truck convoy protest that has occupied downtown Ottawa is a former energy industry worker and a leader within the “Wexit” movement pushing for the independence of western provinces.
...

Lich is a former fitness instructor and sings and plays guitar in a Medicine Hat ... The Saskatchewan native was living in Medicine Hat when she became politically active three years ago with Wexit, which later merged into the Wildrose Independence Party of Alberta.
...

Lich resigned from Maverick this week to devote herself full time to the “Freedom Convoy” protest."
​

Feb 4
Who is Tamara Lich — the 'spark that lit the fire' | Ottawa Citizen

IMO, a different outcome of the federal election, or even a current snap election, would make no difference at all to the cross-border vaccine mandate on Canadian truckers.

The border crossing requirement was first announced by the U.S. government on Oct. 12/21 (to come into effect in January). It applies to both Mexican and Canadian truckers. Secretary Mayorkas to Allow Fully Vaccinated Travelers from Canada and Mexico to Enter U.S. at Land Borders and Ferry Crossings | Homeland Security

Canada followed 10 days later with a similar announcement of a vaccine mandate for American truckers. (Government of Canada announces adjustments to Canada’s border measures - Canada.ca).

I think the mandate came from Washington, and Canada decided to follow suit, NOT the other way around, ie not Trudeau twisting the arm of the US, who helplessly gave in to his demands for a mandate on Canadian truckers.

Even if Canada's leader was someone from an anti-mandate party, and chose not to coordinate with the US (as Mexico has chosen, they have no vaccine mandates at all), then Canadian truckers would still not be able to cross over the border into the US without a vaccine. It's true that American truckers would be able to enter and return to the US without a vaccine, but why do we care so much about the freedom of American truckers, when it is the US that is denying the freedom of Canadian truckers?

I agree with you that the whole 'vaccine mandate' is a red herring to disguise the fact that this is a completely political game, played by a group who are trying to stir up anti-Ottawa sentiment, amongst people who are ignorant of what is actually going on.

And, IMO, that's what all protests are about, a form of theatre, enacted for the news media, using a cast of enthusiastic but utterly clueless extras, who have nothing better to do than sit around and honk their horns and, perhaps, for the only time in their lives, feel important (even though they're not).

At least it's relatively harmless, except to the unfortunate people who work or live in downtown Ottawa. Where I think things get more dangerous is when the leader of the merry band of the deluded attention seekers actually gets any power. So I agree with the response to ignore them and not give the organizer(s) any sense of being successful ie having power to change things through this kind of tactic.

JMO

 

[otto]

If I was a anti-vaxer, which I’m not, I’d be concerned mandates are only the beginning of health regulations. It’s known that excess weight, smoking, alcohol and illegal drugs just for starters increase the risk of a whole host of health issues which put people in hospitals and can result in death. Is it right that the government can take away personal accountability to mandate healthy choices and if this is only the beginning, where does it end?

In Canada as we have free health care, sometimes I wonder if people have begun to overlook the fact that poor health and poor choices may prove costly.

Lifestyle choices of alcohol, cannabis, cigarettes, etc are heavily taxed to compensate for potential increase in health care needs. Over-eating is not taxed, but it has similar increased costs for personal health care. People who make unpopular personal choices are financially accountable for those choices.

Health ministers make recommendations to provincial governments regarding pandemic restrictions and mask-use. Politicians don't make decisions about restrictions. Politicians are the messengers who communicate health recommendations - which are based on science and designed to ensure that hospitals are not overwhelmed and patients are not triaged.

The protesters want Trudeau to tell provincial governments how to manage pandemic restrictions (which constitutes a loss of freedoms at the provincial level), and they are demanding that federal and provincial governments ignore health ministers and medical doctors.

Protesters have made Prime Minister Trudeau and provincial leaders the bad guys when health experts are making the decisions. Let's put blame where it belongs. Canadian medical experts are to blame and are responsible for pandemic restrictions. If the protesters spent 5 minutes thinking about the origin of pandemic restrictions, they would never have mentioned Trudeau. Someone else put it in their heads that Trudeau calls the shots on provincial pandemic restrictions, and they didn't question it.

 

[otto]

IMO, a different outcome of the federal election, or even a current snap election, would make no difference at all to the cross-border vaccine mandate on Canadian truckers.

The border crossing requirement was first announced by the U.S. government on Oct. 12/21 (to come into effect in January). It applies to both Mexican and Canadian truckers. Secretary Mayorkas to Allow Fully Vaccinated Travelers from Canada and Mexico to Enter U.S. at Land Borders and Ferry Crossings | Homeland Security

Canada followed 10 days later with a similar announcement of a vaccine mandate for American truckers. (Government of Canada announces adjustments to Canada’s border measures - Canada.ca).

I think the mandate came from Washington, and Canada decided to follow suit, NOT the other way around, ie not Trudeau twisting the arm of the US, who helplessly gave in to his demands for a mandate on Canadian truckers.

Even if Canada's leader was someone from an anti-mandate party, and chose not to coordinate with the US (as Mexico has chosen, they have no vaccine mandates at all), then Canadian truckers would still not be able to cross over the border into the US without a vaccine. It's true that American truckers would be able to enter and return to the US without a vaccine, but why do we care so much about the freedom of American truckers, when it is the US that is denying the freedom of Canadian truckers?

I agree with you that the whole 'vaccine mandate' is a red herring to disguise the fact that this is a completely political game, played by a group who are trying to stir up anti-Ottawa sentiment, amongst people who are ignorant of what is actually going on.

And, IMO, that's what all protests are about, a form of theatre, enacted for the news media, using a cast of enthusiastic but utterly clueless extras, who have nothing better to do than sit around and honk their horns and, perhaps, for the only time in their lives, feel important (even though they're not).

At least it's relatively harmless, except to the unfortunate people who work or live in downtown Ottawa. Where I think things get more dangerous is when the leader of the merry band of the deluded attention seekers actually gets any power. So I agree with the response to ignore them and not give the organizer(s) any sense of being successful ie having power to change things through this kind of tactic.

JMO

Exactly. The truckers objected to the fact that they lost the vaccine exemption when crossing the border. The USA and Canadian governments agreed that truckers, like everyone else crossing the border, had to be vaccinated. Truckers didn't like the loss of that special privilege. That's how this started.

That morphed into the protest that we see today, which is anti-government, anti-pandemic restrictions, interference with supply chain, interference with border crossing, increased cost for food and the occupation of Canada's capital city. The Coutts, Alberta border closure means that trucks have to drive farther to cross the border - which automatically means paying more for food. Everyone is being penalized because some people are angry about following medical advice.

 

[Satchie]

I know someone who is from another country who thinks/believes that (government trying to kill us all) as well. Shocked me. I also know a family whose young adult daughter won't come near them because they ARE vaccinated and she figures they're going to 'shed' their whatever onto her. Crazy times. imo.

I think paranoia is a symptom of a mental health disorder, apparently it always affects a few percent of the population, regardless of what's going on in the actual real world around them. I overheard a young man telling someone that the cashier and people ahead of him in our peaceful rural grocery store lineups were conspiring to kill him. (I reported this to his mother). IMO the paranoid mind is looking around for something to confirm their sense of personal danger and threat, and they'll find it in stories about witches, or aliens in spaceships, or theories about the government. The reality is they have a paranoid personality disorder, or are suffering from schizophrenia, or have post traumatic stress, etc.

I don't think a sane person can be made crazy by something that the majority of adults have no problems with.

JMO