CANADA Canada - Donna Stearne & Wendy Tedford, both 17, Toronto, 26 Apr 1973
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It has always interested me since I read about this case that T.I. finds the bodies of the girls and then runs over to the factory, a fair distance to tell G.M. who as I understand it does not call police (but maybe he did?) but goes to look at the bodies.
Why not run home?
Or why not run to a nearby house either through the fence or over it? A short fence and the girls were right by the gate.
Did he know G.M. and think that was a good person to tell? But how would be know he was there? Or did he just run to tell anyone?
IF the girls got into something over their heads involving organized crime what could that possibly be?
As I have said before it is VERY interesting to me that the person who finds the body, the person who hears the shots around midnight H.K. on the adjacent street across the fence and the person who spots them at the SitnEat AND the girls themselves are all around 17. I do not know who spotted them at Lawrence and Keele possibly a bus driver (?) but it would be VERY interesting if it was someone again, their age.
OK scenario time (again). One girl is forced to have sex. (DNA found in or on her body not sure which would like to know). They are upset about this and decide to get some advice or seek some support hence the trip to the SitnEat. The young perp (this is again just a scenario) is related to 'somebody's Dad' or brother and someone is assigned to take care of it.
Well, not sure if I buy this.
One thing I need to know: were there car tracks beside the girls bodies or not?
Overall I think there is some kind of troubled young perp being protected BUT tough to see how nothing would come out. Of course maybe it has but LE didn't act or didn't think it was enough to proceed on.
Also flickr is now full screen so check my link to samiam's photos in post 189 or his original posting to get really vivid photos of the approximate site of the murders, of the sitneat etc.
Don't see what LE has to lose my treating the case as a DNA case in other words assume sexual assault.
Question: were the factories 24 hours? How did they run?
Question and sorry for being blunt: was the DNA in her or on her?
Why not run home?
Or why not run to a nearby house either through the fence or over it? A short fence and the girls were right by the gate.
Did he know G.M. and think that was a good person to tell? But how would be know he was there? Or did he just run to tell anyone?
IF the girls got into something over their heads involving organized crime what could that possibly be?
As I have said before it is VERY interesting to me that the person who finds the body, the person who hears the shots around midnight H.K. on the adjacent street across the fence and the person who spots them at the SitnEat AND the girls themselves are all around 17. I do not know who spotted them at Lawrence and Keele possibly a bus driver (?) but it would be VERY interesting if it was someone again, their age.
OK scenario time (again). One girl is forced to have sex. (DNA found in or on her body not sure which would like to know). They are upset about this and decide to get some advice or seek some support hence the trip to the SitnEat. The young perp (this is again just a scenario) is related to 'somebody's Dad' or brother and someone is assigned to take care of it.
Well, not sure if I buy this.
One thing I need to know: were there car tracks beside the girls bodies or not?
Overall I think there is some kind of troubled young perp being protected BUT tough to see how nothing would come out. Of course maybe it has but LE didn't act or didn't think it was enough to proceed on.
Also flickr is now full screen so check my link to samiam's photos in post 189 or his original posting to get really vivid photos of the approximate site of the murders, of the sitneat etc.
Don't see what LE has to lose my treating the case as a DNA case in other words assume sexual assault.
Question: were the factories 24 hours? How did they run?
Question and sorry for being blunt: was the DNA in her or on her?
In anyone's opinion is it significant one of the girl's was shot in the neck?
1. Why shoot someone in the neck and not in the head especially from up close.
2. Was she really shot in the neck or in the mouth this being 'holdback' info cause of Mob connotations, silencing etc.
3. Or does it mean the person was an inexperienced shooter?
To me the crime scene doesn't make much sense why are they found so close to the houses and the fence and the gate? Unless they came through the gate or the bodies were laid there.
Not sure why Cold Case Det. Wilkinson is moving away from the theory that the bodies were deliberately laid out head to foot backwards one up one down (if correct) he says they fell that way.
I have been assured on this thread that other people besides the one witness saw the girls at the SitnEat. But the owners said they didn't it was busy and they would not notice. But I do not remember reading about any other witness. Anyone have a link to anything?
1. Why shoot someone in the neck and not in the head especially from up close.
2. Was she really shot in the neck or in the mouth this being 'holdback' info cause of Mob connotations, silencing etc.
3. Or does it mean the person was an inexperienced shooter?
To me the crime scene doesn't make much sense why are they found so close to the houses and the fence and the gate? Unless they came through the gate or the bodies were laid there.
Not sure why Cold Case Det. Wilkinson is moving away from the theory that the bodies were deliberately laid out head to foot backwards one up one down (if correct) he says they fell that way.
I have been assured on this thread that other people besides the one witness saw the girls at the SitnEat. But the owners said they didn't it was busy and they would not notice. But I do not remember reading about any other witness. Anyone have a link to anything?
Re posting this bit..
Bbm A bullet to the mouth as Chorley 8 suggested could mean a mob type hit to silence, or possibly even to leave the face intact either for personal or religious reasons imo. If so, that would be interesting because one girl was shot in the head the other in the neck.
"The next morning, April 27, 1973, a boy named Tony Iscaro took a short cut on his way to school. He discovered the girls' bodies in a grassy field about two kilometres from the diner.
Wilkinson pulls a yellowed crime scene photo out of a wrinkled folder. The victims are slumped almost on top of each other, in front of a bank of concrete squares and bricks. Tedford was shot twice in the neck, he says. She was left face down with her arms at her sides. Stearne had been shot once in the back of the head. She fell on her back"
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/09/01/a_relentless_hunt_for_elusive_clues_in_1973_slaying.html
"Several months later, a revolver was found on the side of the highway in southwestern Ontario. Police eventually linked the weapon to the Tedford and Stearne murders by analyzing the bullet riflings. It had been used in a Windsor robbery
Still, despite the dead ends, Toronto detectives haven't given up hope. In the last few months, Toronto's cold case squad has teamed up with their counterparts in the Ontario Provincial Police.
In 1972, two girls, 15 and 17, were shot and killed west of Tilbury, Ont., which is about a 45-minute drive east of Windsor. Each sustained a bullet wound to the head. "There are other connections, but it's still early. I can't give you any more details than that at this stage," said Det. Insp. Ian Maule, who heads the province's cold case unit.
Back in Toronto, Det. Reg Pitts is hoping to give the girls' family an update in the next few months.
"The thing is," said Pitts, who heads Toronto's cold case squad, "after a homicide, you're working against time. Time is the enemy. But in a cold case investigation, time is your friend. And we're never going to quit looking for these two young girls' killer."
Bbm A bullet to the mouth as Chorley 8 suggested could mean a mob type hit to silence, or possibly even to leave the face intact either for personal or religious reasons imo. If so, that would be interesting because one girl was shot in the head the other in the neck.
"The next morning, April 27, 1973, a boy named Tony Iscaro took a short cut on his way to school. He discovered the girls' bodies in a grassy field about two kilometres from the diner.
Wilkinson pulls a yellowed crime scene photo out of a wrinkled folder. The victims are slumped almost on top of each other, in front of a bank of concrete squares and bricks. Tedford was shot twice in the neck, he says. She was left face down with her arms at her sides. Stearne had been shot once in the back of the head. She fell on her back"
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/09/01/a_relentless_hunt_for_elusive_clues_in_1973_slaying.html
"Several months later, a revolver was found on the side of the highway in southwestern Ontario. Police eventually linked the weapon to the Tedford and Stearne murders by analyzing the bullet riflings. It had been used in a Windsor robbery
Still, despite the dead ends, Toronto detectives haven't given up hope. In the last few months, Toronto's cold case squad has teamed up with their counterparts in the Ontario Provincial Police.
In 1972, two girls, 15 and 17, were shot and killed west of Tilbury, Ont., which is about a 45-minute drive east of Windsor. Each sustained a bullet wound to the head. "There are other connections, but it's still early. I can't give you any more details than that at this stage," said Det. Insp. Ian Maule, who heads the province's cold case unit.
Back in Toronto, Det. Reg Pitts is hoping to give the girls' family an update in the next few months.
"The thing is," said Pitts, who heads Toronto's cold case squad, "after a homicide, you're working against time. Time is the enemy. But in a cold case investigation, time is your friend. And we're never going to quit looking for these two young girls' killer."
This site has handy links for old news clippings about the murders of Donna and Wendy.
http://members.tripod.com/~unsolved_murder/news.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~unsolved_murder/news.htm
CanManEh
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I think it should be noted that saying the too girls were going to meet someone was a thought thier was no mention of that at all what so ever in the report but DOC3 with the first post in this topic put it out there as fact by him/her so unless there has been something more concrete saying different it should be knowen that all we know is the too of them were going to the mall . IMO that this was a thrill kill it happend immed after they come out of that diner and then bang bang and then the gun i s back in windsor total thrill kill here maybe a gang initation and thats why no one has been caught stranger on stranger crimes no clues no evidence no connection to one another ..
Good clear colour photos of crime scenes.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86511892@N02/sets/72157631393923712/with/7925762336/
Interesting connections ..
http://books.google.ca/books?id=dUB...DcQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=donna stearne&f=false
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86511892@N02/sets/72157631393923712/with/7925762336/
Interesting connections ..
http://books.google.ca/books?id=dUB...DcQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=donna stearne&f=false
Yes I think the trip to the SitnEat has been labelled mostly a mystery for various reaons 1. the eyewitness said they used to go there hadn't for a year 2. as far as I know there is only one true eyewitness at the SitnEat though Crimesolver may be able to contradict me here 3. they had had burgers already somewhere else (unknown to us all) according to lab reports. 4. Because of sister's remarks about them seeking weed that has been broached. Though if you were young in the 70s surely someone would offer to sell you weed on Yonge Street.
That they even went to Yorkdale has now to be put in question. I don't have time right now to go back but it is worth doing: they were found with a gift and a receipt from a store they had been to that evening Yonge and College there would have been very little time for them to have gone to Yorkdale.
Your point is an excellent one however that we have to be careful not to take someone's surmising for fact. That would have to include the trip to Yorkdale what evidence is there they went there other the sister's remarks they had planned to go there?
That they even went to Yorkdale has now to be put in question. I don't have time right now to go back but it is worth doing: they were found with a gift and a receipt from a store they had been to that evening Yonge and College there would have been very little time for them to have gone to Yorkdale.
Your point is an excellent one however that we have to be careful not to take someone's surmising for fact. That would have to include the trip to Yorkdale what evidence is there they went there other the sister's remarks they had planned to go there?
One day will check the original newspaper the old clipping from the flickr site seems to show the girls or a least one of them covered (am I correct?) and the detective or someone pointing towards the body of their body nearest the fence. If correct the bodies are very very close to that fence. Dotr you will remember the debate about the blood in hand and 'clawing motion" could they have tried to climb that fairly short fence with barbed wire?
Another way in is to concentrate on that gun. Not a great gun why not just discard it? What does that mean? It was discarded after the robbery why not after the homicides?
Another way in is to concentrate on that gun. Not a great gun why not just discard it? What does that mean? It was discarded after the robbery why not after the homicides?
Rbbm.
IF the girls were trying to climb the fence, my guess would be that they were running away from the back of one of the houses..Maybe one girl was higher on fence than the other, hence a neck wound as opposed to a shot to the head.
A robbery is "nuthin' special" imo, but two murdered teen girls might inspire some trophy keeping.
Interesting, not sure what you are saying though pardon my dullness LOL - you are suggesting they clambered and fall over the fence from the backyard to the lot? Well that is completely original I think! You would expect more injuries to their hands though. I am guessing they must know that the shots were fired from up close - but I have never heard anything definitive as to the potential range, how many yards.
Yes twice in the neck bothers me I mean of course the whole thing bothers me - but that has to mean something.
Got to go back and look at those photos....... and find the original newspapers.....
So close to the fence if that grainy injury are their bodies - I know I am repeating myself but the shot to the neck, the bodies right beside the fence.....has to be important.
The fence doesn't make sense to me. 1. if being chased surely they would be caught before the fence 2. if execution why would you go towards the houses why not the middle of the field 3. the fence DOES make sense if they came through that little gate. 4. I would like to know if LE know 100% they were killed there or could they have been brought from a nearby house or car? 5. Beside the houses: so that they would be found quickly?
That newspaper photo looks like feet toward fence body on back?
Yes twice in the neck bothers me I mean of course the whole thing bothers me - but that has to mean something.
Got to go back and look at those photos....... and find the original newspapers.....
So close to the fence if that grainy injury are their bodies - I know I am repeating myself but the shot to the neck, the bodies right beside the fence.....has to be important.
The fence doesn't make sense to me. 1. if being chased surely they would be caught before the fence 2. if execution why would you go towards the houses why not the middle of the field 3. the fence DOES make sense if they came through that little gate. 4. I would like to know if LE know 100% they were killed there or could they have been brought from a nearby house or car? 5. Beside the houses: so that they would be found quickly?
That newspaper photo looks like feet toward fence body on back?
In response to a post I can no longer find, just wanted to note fwiw, that Johnny Winters was playing at Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto followed by a show in Detroit.
http://www.yee.ch/winter/Timeline/winter_timeline_1973.html
Tuesday, 24/25 April 1973 - Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto, Canada
This concerts has been released on the bootleg: Alive and Well in Toronto
Thursday, 26 April 1973 - Cobo Hall, Detroit``
http://www.yee.ch/winter/Timeline/winter_timeline_1973.html
Tuesday, 24/25 April 1973 - Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto, Canada
This concerts has been released on the bootleg: Alive and Well in Toronto
Thursday, 26 April 1973 - Cobo Hall, Detroit``
were they fans of johnny winters? - would be great if the sister would come back on to offer opinion or straighten us out on any point.
Maple Leaf Gardens just a couple of blocks from the store they shopped at that night. But it would seem they left home a little late to attend or hang around or try to get late cheap tickets.
but like your admittedly very very hypothetical idea. At least in the sense it is off the charts, of anything we might have thought of. Hook-up with an interesting roadie or hanger on or scalper (they followed the bands from city to city concert to concert the diehard ones) though scalping is just barely marginally criminal. Hard to imagine how they could end up in that field - except it is close to the new apt. Walk along the railroad tracks?
Maple Leaf Gardens just a couple of blocks from the store they shopped at that night. But it would seem they left home a little late to attend or hang around or try to get late cheap tickets.
but like your admittedly very very hypothetical idea. At least in the sense it is off the charts, of anything we might have thought of. Hook-up with an interesting roadie or hanger on or scalper (they followed the bands from city to city concert to concert the diehard ones) though scalping is just barely marginally criminal. Hard to imagine how they could end up in that field - except it is close to the new apt. Walk along the railroad tracks?
Thinking more along the lines of media possibly sent to cover concerts, ie. David N and the Hungarian photographer suggested poi in another crime ect.
Also thinking of the pumped and bonded crowds exiting the venue, crowding public transit and increasing the chance of meeting someone old and trusting someone new to share a ride home.
Cannot recall if there was a locked entrance of any kind to the fence where the girls were found, but if there was and it was opened somehow..Sharron Prior would come to mind. In which case, I would also consider someone possibly working with food vending of some sort at large events.The weekend of SP's murder, there was a big game at the Montreal Forum.
Why were the bodies beside the fence? If that had meaning, would it suggest someone dealing in stolen goods?
Thinking of the peculiar note found in the locker predicting the murder and thought somewhere in those pages the killer is possibly named.
imo.
Also thinking of the pumped and bonded crowds exiting the venue, crowding public transit and increasing the chance of meeting someone old and trusting someone new to share a ride home.
Cannot recall if there was a locked entrance of any kind to the fence where the girls were found, but if there was and it was opened somehow..Sharron Prior would come to mind. In which case, I would also consider someone possibly working with food vending of some sort at large events.The weekend of SP's murder, there was a big game at the Montreal Forum.
Why were the bodies beside the fence? If that had meaning, would it suggest someone dealing in stolen goods?
Thinking of the peculiar note found in the locker predicting the murder and thought somewhere in those pages the killer is possibly named.
imo.
I know nothing about a Hungarian photographer which section?
David N. the reporter wrote on the Emmanuel Jacques killing. Oddly enough the building he was killed in was owned by the Airsts 3 of whom were murdered in Toronto one terrible night.
I believe a storekeeper on Eg. west was killed it is somewhere on Crimesolver's Toronto Crimes notes. And Mariam Peters. Just trying to set up a downtown/North Toronto thing i.e. someone living in north Toronto who comes downtown i.e. a young person.
Hmmm - as unlikely as it is - given the case seems almost hopeless it might be just worth seeing if we link anything as I said a few posts ago - and Dotr you are providing some interesting ideas.
Thinking of the composite drawing of "Hungarian photog." a poi in this murder posted by Crimesolver, post # 366 in GTA crimes section.
Bbm. This is nearly 10 years later and prob. not related but just wanted to note.
"●Kevin Lionel McBride, 47, was found stabbed to death in his apartment at Sheppard Ave. E. and Markham Rd. on Monday, May 17th, 1982. He had been dead for a couple of days.
McBride’s car and credit card had been stolen. Police believed his killer was invited into McBride’s apartment on Saturday night after answering McBride's ad for a roommate.
The victim’s credit card was used in Windsor, Ontario and Detroit, Michigan, and police were able to create a composite sketch (below) based on witness descriptions. He was described as white, 6’2”, in his mid-20s to early-30s, with wavy dark brown hair swept back from his forehead. He was in the company of another man.
On September 22nd, McBride’s car was found in Rochester, Minnesota.
McBride was an interior decorator and antique dealer who had moved to Canada from Australia 17 years earlier.
No further information"
Thanks to CrimeSolver!
CANADA Canada - Toronto Crimes Discussion - Page 15 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
No posts here for a while so just musing;
Wonder if LE ever looked at Saul Betesh or his cohorts in any other crimes. Grew up in north Toronto though in a nice neigbourhood till he was sent to a group home at 17. Had relationships with girls/women when younger. College and Yonge where Wendy and Donna went shopping of course very close to Yonge Dundas. Concert night as Dotr pointed out. Bars on Yonge like the St. Charles that would have brought them further north around College.
From what I understand the transcripts of the Emmanuel J. trial are a nightmare with young boys brought in to describe how they were dragged off the streets by Betesh and his cohorts (and others).
Just to say as well I have not lost interest in the Mariam Peters connection to Tedford Stearne ONLY in the sense that both could have been the work of an out and out lunatic. No doubt getting overly imaginative see the proximity of the crime scene Tedford Stearne as redolent of the killer's 'gift' to someone who lived on the adjoining street.
OK don't want to push this it is somewhat farfetched though strangely it 'feels' right to me - and I have thought about the case quite a bit. The killer(s) took an enormous risk shooting them so close to the houses Heather K. heard the shots and could have decided to phone LE probably would have if she was a bit older.
Mariam P. back to the 16 years old stabbed 16 times. It would suggest that she was stalked. But her Dad drove her to the subway. She seemed to be gregarious by her own description (articles) so could she have chatted up someone insane or dangerous on the subway? I think she actually did visit her Grandad at Mt. Sinai and was walking back to the subway. I am not sure where this lonely old entrance where the crime occured was. The street behind Mr. Sinai? Sorry I am off topic a bit unless there is any chance of a link. The perp was young and very pale? So could she have talked to him at the hospital? Guess they wouldn't have records at Mt. Sinai that far back? Clarke Institute closeby as well. But since we have nothing I am going to insist for heuristic reasons that she was deliberately stabbed 16 times, the age she was.
What follows from that?
Wonder if LE ever looked at Saul Betesh or his cohorts in any other crimes. Grew up in north Toronto though in a nice neigbourhood till he was sent to a group home at 17. Had relationships with girls/women when younger. College and Yonge where Wendy and Donna went shopping of course very close to Yonge Dundas. Concert night as Dotr pointed out. Bars on Yonge like the St. Charles that would have brought them further north around College.
From what I understand the transcripts of the Emmanuel J. trial are a nightmare with young boys brought in to describe how they were dragged off the streets by Betesh and his cohorts (and others).
Just to say as well I have not lost interest in the Mariam Peters connection to Tedford Stearne ONLY in the sense that both could have been the work of an out and out lunatic. No doubt getting overly imaginative see the proximity of the crime scene Tedford Stearne as redolent of the killer's 'gift' to someone who lived on the adjoining street.
OK don't want to push this it is somewhat farfetched though strangely it 'feels' right to me - and I have thought about the case quite a bit. The killer(s) took an enormous risk shooting them so close to the houses Heather K. heard the shots and could have decided to phone LE probably would have if she was a bit older.
Mariam P. back to the 16 years old stabbed 16 times. It would suggest that she was stalked. But her Dad drove her to the subway. She seemed to be gregarious by her own description (articles) so could she have chatted up someone insane or dangerous on the subway? I think she actually did visit her Grandad at Mt. Sinai and was walking back to the subway. I am not sure where this lonely old entrance where the crime occured was. The street behind Mr. Sinai? Sorry I am off topic a bit unless there is any chance of a link. The perp was young and very pale? So could she have talked to him at the hospital? Guess they wouldn't have records at Mt. Sinai that far back? Clarke Institute closeby as well. But since we have nothing I am going to insist for heuristic reasons that she was deliberately stabbed 16 times, the age she was.
What follows from that?
Answering my off-topic question what follows from that Mariam Peters.
That he knew her. And knew that it was her birthday.
Father drove her so it would have to be that he knew she was going to the hospital to visit her father then followed her to the subway.
They must have DNA. I hope they test it if they haven't.
Other possibility is someone at the hospital who observed her there even overheard it was her birthday.
OK using same kind of logic with Wendy and Donna:
What was happening in their lives?
1. New place about to move in that is the big thing both would be excited.
2. Went back to SitnEat for first time in a year if we believe SitnEat witness who hung out there a lot.
3. Lots of windows in restaurant and gas station across street with easy view of restaurant. Stalked or someone waiting?
4. Had had bad experience so were afraid of hitching supposedly. Perp same person who scared them?
5. One at least a bit depressed would seem chronically due to death of Dad. Did she get any help for this?
6. Both Dads in military before. Police station close by. Anything relevant there?
7. Church angle?
8. Any weird teachers?
9. Dream/prophecy is interesting of course would like to know more. Almost certainly this suggest there was someone known to them or someone that unconsciously they had picked up bad vibes from. It sounds like there was someone ominous in their lives. But who the heck could it be?
10. Also who knew about the dream prophecy? Slight chance crime was made to fit the prophecy.
I think the crime MIGHT be linked to organized crime directly or indirectly even though that would be unusual. What would fit would be a young person a teen with parents in org. crime. Protected.
The day I went I got freaked out cause of couple of things yes I know could be my imagination:
1. Woman drove in with her car and dog deep into the road and around the crime scene very strange place for a woman alone to run her dog and it was strangely brief and
2. Almost comically mob like guy in van reading a single piece of newspaper out by the road entrance look I am pretty urban but the guy scared me. Older guy.
I realize this is probably ridiculous since how would they know we were visiting? But it is a major case still up on LE cold case so it is just possible...........
I think that would mean there is a link between the businesses by the field I mean someone working for those businesses past or future and the crime. Or....
If I were LE I would be more aggressive than they probably have been and think outside the box as terrible as it is to be suspicious of people for example the unknown DNA in the girl's body or on her body I don't know which but guess the former. So how the heck did it get there?
I wonder if they could tell how decayed it was if recent that is really something. Cause girls were together. Had boyfriend. Oh it really sounds like an older person sorry but I have to bring in relative since there is so much predation against girls and young people - or family friend - or teacher.... something like that.
Dream is the clue it was no idle prophecy something was bugging them. She was having sex with that person perhaps unwillingly. She had confided in her girlfriend. Hence the crime.
But I don't understand why they were killed by the fence.
That he knew her. And knew that it was her birthday.
Father drove her so it would have to be that he knew she was going to the hospital to visit her father then followed her to the subway.
They must have DNA. I hope they test it if they haven't.
Other possibility is someone at the hospital who observed her there even overheard it was her birthday.
OK using same kind of logic with Wendy and Donna:
What was happening in their lives?
1. New place about to move in that is the big thing both would be excited.
2. Went back to SitnEat for first time in a year if we believe SitnEat witness who hung out there a lot.
3. Lots of windows in restaurant and gas station across street with easy view of restaurant. Stalked or someone waiting?
4. Had had bad experience so were afraid of hitching supposedly. Perp same person who scared them?
5. One at least a bit depressed would seem chronically due to death of Dad. Did she get any help for this?
6. Both Dads in military before. Police station close by. Anything relevant there?
7. Church angle?
8. Any weird teachers?
9. Dream/prophecy is interesting of course would like to know more. Almost certainly this suggest there was someone known to them or someone that unconsciously they had picked up bad vibes from. It sounds like there was someone ominous in their lives. But who the heck could it be?
10. Also who knew about the dream prophecy? Slight chance crime was made to fit the prophecy.
I think the crime MIGHT be linked to organized crime directly or indirectly even though that would be unusual. What would fit would be a young person a teen with parents in org. crime. Protected.
The day I went I got freaked out cause of couple of things yes I know could be my imagination:
1. Woman drove in with her car and dog deep into the road and around the crime scene very strange place for a woman alone to run her dog and it was strangely brief and
2. Almost comically mob like guy in van reading a single piece of newspaper out by the road entrance look I am pretty urban but the guy scared me. Older guy.
I realize this is probably ridiculous since how would they know we were visiting? But it is a major case still up on LE cold case so it is just possible...........
I think that would mean there is a link between the businesses by the field I mean someone working for those businesses past or future and the crime. Or....
If I were LE I would be more aggressive than they probably have been and think outside the box as terrible as it is to be suspicious of people for example the unknown DNA in the girl's body or on her body I don't know which but guess the former. So how the heck did it get there?
I wonder if they could tell how decayed it was if recent that is really something. Cause girls were together. Had boyfriend. Oh it really sounds like an older person sorry but I have to bring in relative since there is so much predation against girls and young people - or family friend - or teacher.... something like that.
Dream is the clue it was no idle prophecy something was bugging them. She was having sex with that person perhaps unwillingly. She had confided in her girlfriend. Hence the crime.
But I don't understand why they were killed by the fence.