CANADA Canada - Donna Stearne & Wendy Tedford, both 17, Toronto, 26 Apr 1973

[SamIAm]

Thought I would capture a few images used in the 2009 The Star video seen here

1) Image of Police investigators at crime scene.
2) Updated photostream, added a few more photos here.

 

[SamIAm]

Crimesolver, would you by chance have a copy of this map seen in the 2009 Star vid here? Interesting notations on it but I can't read any of them.

 

[CrimeSolver]

I can grab it, but I think it's essentially the same as the one at TPD page. Just a few minutes.

 

[CrimeSolver]

Good thing you thought about the map. I saw it yesterday but didn't explore it. That is, as far as I know, the only mention of the car.

 

[Chorley8]

Just to say this answers a few question for me:

1. Both were shot from behind most articles simply say Wendy was shot twice in the neck I was not sure front or back.

2. Article names different street for Wendy's new apartment NOT Connie Street interesting it says a two minute walk - surely that is not exact - was reporter thinking something about relationship of new apt. to crime scene?

3. CSolver - it does say here driven to field not sure if that means car parked in the driveway which there does seem to be at Wilson - or drove to the crime scene - I am guessing the former since surely there would be aural evidence from neighbours.

4. Why so close to the houses? Could there have been an actual witness in one of the houses or garages? The crime as a "gift". This I admit very speculative. But why so close to the houses - of course the "madman" theory allows almost anything.

5. Don't think I can make anything of this but shopping trip to Isabella and Yonge the mode of travel is unknown - I assumed TTC before. Also I thought this trip was new info as of 2009 - yet here it is.

So in 1. above shot standing up from behind: I guess the shot could spin someone around so the bodies fell as they were found? Anyone know why they would know this, "standing up" (?).

 

[CrimeSolver]

Interesting questions, Chorley8. That article might just be a hack job. "Gisford Blvd" should be "Gosford". OK, no biggie, could be a typo, but there's also the discrepancy of the complete omission of the drug angle, which detectives had stressed unequivocally as being instrumental early on.

2. Like you, I also remember reading somewhere long ago about the "new apartment on Connie St." If that were indeed true, it would be a 2-minute walk from the crime scene if one walked along the CNR tracks under the 401. Another article mentions the new apartment was on Bentworth Ave., which is a little southeast of the crime scene. Nowadays it is completely commercial (no residential at all); it's part of the whole Orfus Rd. wholesale shopping district. Another article mentions the girls were living together on Falstaff. I don't know what is accurate anymore.

3. Yes, again we can only speculate. I still think the perp drove to the scene, but he could have walked the girls there at gunpoint from Wilson or lured them there with the offer of weed. If the lot was used by a lot of kids as a lovers' lane, residents wouldn't have thought twice about hearing a car driving through there.
What I find most interesting about this particular article (although I don't know how much weight we can give it) is the confirmation of shots heard at midnight, not 11 p.m. as Max Haines contends, and of course the car leaving the scene. If the car was in fact seen by a bypasser, it is possibly the single most important piece of evidence aside from the gun.

4. I must admit that the proximity to the houses is something that has never really crossed my mind. It is certainly possible the killer is someone who lived in the adjacent neighbourhood, but my gut instinct tells me otherwise.

5. My assumption is they came up on the University-Spadina subway line and got onto a bus at Lawrence, skipping Yorkdale entirely because it was already too late.

As to your last thought, I think the bodies were posed. It's too convenient for them to have fallen so neatly side-by-side.

Edit: My mistake. There is some residential farther east on Bentworth. The street makes a little jog southward at Caledonia, so I didn't see the second, eastern section. Therefore, it's possible the new apartment was on Bentworth after all.

 

[Chorley8]

"What I find most interesting about this particular article (although I don't know how much weight we can give it) is the confirmation of shots heard at midnight, not 11 p.m. as Max Haines contends, and of course the car leaving the scene. If the car was in fact seen by a bypasser, it is possibly the single most important piece of evidence aside from the gun." Crime Solver

I have seen consistently witness Korn. 17 and possibly also her family heard shots at 12:00 witness C. living close by heard thuds at 11:00 which she thought might be noise from the 401. Lots of media want to use both and either leave this unexplained discrepancy or meld them. May be a mistake in Haines. Will he answer questions for us do you think? By the way I am not giving witnesses full name just so their names don't needlessly show up on general web searches not of course because they are suspect in any way. I don't see how both of these can be used.

Man those shots would be close to the houses ( my obsession I know, the proximity). Not to blame but who wouldn't call this in? Young daughter in the house maybe kids I don't know - bedrooms possibly facing the back - don't know what to make of that, nothing I guess.

Wonder about one thing: SitnEat cleaned up in last year. Wendy and Donna hadn't been there in a year (Armstrong witness). Restaurant sold to M.G. in January supposedly. Armstrong had seen them there a lot before hitching out front seems like multiple times for sure. Did Donna and/or Wendy get "stung" by anyone then informed on the restaurant or the scene there? Now lured back there somehow. Significant they are killed their first visit back in a year if Armstrong is correct. (I doubt his evidence less than I did.)

 

[CrimeSolver]

I have seen consistently witness Korn. 17 and possibly also her family heard shots at 12:00 witness C. living close by heard thuds at 11:00 which she thought might be noise from the 401.

That's right. The other neighbour heard thuds at 11:00. I think we can discount those sounds being anything of importance. The girls would have still been at the restaurant, or just leaving, at that time.

May be a mistake in Haines. Will he answer questions for us do you think?

Not likely, unless someone emails him. I've done more than my share of fruitless emailing for this case. I'm finished.

By the way I am not giving witnesses full name just so their names don't needlessly show up on general web searches not of course because they are suspect in any way.

Yes, I applaud your discretion, although I have been naming some of the people involved. It's all part of the public record, but with openness of Internet searches, one doesn't want to drag folks back into this needlessly after 40 years (This April 27th is the 40th anniversary).

Man those shots would be close to the houses ( my obsession I know, the proximity). Not to blame but who wouldn't call this in? Young daughter in the house maybe kids I don't know - bedrooms possibly facing the back - don't know what to make of that, nothing I guess.

You're not the only one; I agree with you. This has bothered me, too. I'm not familiar with guns, but a .38 would be quite loud, I think (it's not the tinny sound of a .22, which one might ignore). The neighbourhood was/is a clean middle-class place. Gunshots would definitely have been glaringly out of place there. Why the Korenblums didn't call 911 (or maybe look out a back window to see what's happening!) is anyone's guess.

Wonder about one thing: SitnEat cleaned up in last year. Wendy and Donna hadn't been there in a year (Armstrong witness). Restaurant sold to M.G. in January supposedly. Armstrong had seen them there a lot before hitching out front seems like multiple times for sure. Did Donna and/or Wendy get "stung" by anyone then informed on the restaurant or the scene there? Now lured back there somehow. Significant they are killed their first visit back in a year if Armstrong is correct. (I doubt his evidence less than I did.)

Armstrong seems like a credible, open witness, and he saw a lot. If I were investigating this now, I would definitely go back to re-interview him, as I'm sure they have.

My thought remains: If it involved local drug dealers/kids/people known to the girls, someone would have squealed after all these years. That's one of the main reasons, along with Windsor, that I continue to believe most strongly in the "lone maniac" theory.

 

[Chorley8]

Someone was telling me about the vivid dream Wendy had of I think being shot with a friend - supposedly when LE checked her locker at school she had written out the dream - and it was evocative of what actually happened. Any of you who have looked at this case for a while know about this - and what do you make of it? Thanks in advance

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I say the "odds are slim" because my uninformed guess is that, given the murders' proximity to the highway, and the location where the gun was later found, the girls were probably murdered by a drifter. The best chances to solve this existed in '73. The killer may have been a truck driver, as there are some factories in the area, and the stretch of 401 between Toronto and the Windsor border (the world's busiest border crossing) is an extremely busy commercial trucking corridor. I doubt it had anything to do with drugs, their peers, the school, or "The Jungle" (which is more than 2 kms from the crime scene anyway), but all that is just rank empirical speculation on my part. The drifter theory makes the most sense to me, but I'm no professional investigator (in fact, in hindsight I regret assuming the hubristic moniker "CrimeSolver" here at this forum, when there are so many actual professionals).

What about a Vietnam draft dodger from the states?
Just started reading the long thread. So if its been answered somewhere already just ignore this question

 

[CrimeSolver]

Someone was telling me about the vivid dream Wendy had of I think being shot with a friend - supposedly when LE checked her locker at school she had written out the dream - and it was evocative of what actually happened. Any of you who have looked at this case for a while know about this - and what do you make of it? Thanks in advance

I have read about her writing about her death, but it has only been mentioned in passing in the articles I have read. It would be very interesting to see her actual story or diary.

What about a Vietnam draft dodger from the states?
Just started reading the long thread. So if its been answered somewhere already just ignore this question

It has been previously posited that maybe it was an American, and a draft dodger is a possibility. There's just no evidence that I'm aware of to prove it either way.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

I have read about her writing about her death, but it has only been mentioned in passing in the articles I have read. It would be very interesting to see her actual story or diary.

It has been previously posited that maybe it was an American, and a draft dodger is a possibility. There's just no evidence that I'm aware of to prove it either way.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=+.38+Colt+revolver%2c+6+shot%2c+with+a+6%22+barrel.+&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=036C3C94717D449D5C5E75F5A52DDC01CCE76EDB&selectedIndex=2

colt new army revolver with unique features 38 long colt 6 barrel ...

I believe this is a similiar weapon to the murder weapon? With one or two small differences between them.
I came across several that resemble the murder weapon, not exact though. But by appearance the murder weapon looks to be in what i would call horrible condition, not well taken care of..........Would like to learn more about the break in.

Stolen from Windsor and found in Windsor I read. Which is interesting. Girls found in Toronto, so the killer/killers took the gun back to the city it was reported stolen from a few months before the crime. And discarded the weapon there. Could that be because the killer wanted it to appear the bugler that stolen the weapon in Windsor a few months prior is the one that committed the murders?
The murder weapon stolen months, reported stolen that is months before the murder, was not shown to have been involved in any other killings or crimes? It was reported stolen and than a few months later used to kill these girls in toronto and than discarded back in the city it was reported stolen from.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/case/3
​

The shells recovered indicated a .38 calibre weapon had been used.

I am going to assume they mean bullets recovered during the autopsy.
And not casings found at the crime scene?

Forgive me but I am asking questions as I think of them and that is why I am editing.
In parts of Canada they speak English and french or both. Which is it in this area?

It seems the girls may have went to the sit and eat and ordered a coke while waiting for someone.
They didnot run a tab or order food because they were killing time. They may have gotten there before the person they were going to met there arrive, so they odered there cokes and paid for them. A short time later the person they were waiting for showed up and the girls left without being notice leaving. But then one must ask if the girls knew the killer for this to have happened. And there is nothing to tell us in fact they did.......I did read the LEOS were told they may had been looking to buy some weed that night.......
Have the girls been known to have purchased there smoke in the Windsor area before?

One question i know we will never know the answer to is whether or not the girls finished those cokes or if they left before they did.

 

[CrimeSolver]

I believe this is a similiar weapon to the murder weapon? With one or two small differences between them.
I came across several that resemble the murder weapon, not exact though. But by appearance the murder weapon looks to be in what i would call horrible condition, not well taken care of..........Would like to learn more about the break in.

Apparently the police exhausted all avenues in searching for the gun's origin, who stole it, and so forth. That was by far their best lead. The weapon had passed through so many hands that it was impossible to learn who ended up with it. That is my understanding, which could be misinformed or mistakenly recalled.

Stolen from Windsor and found in Windsor I read. Which is interesting. Girls found in Toronto, so the killer/killers took the gun back to the city it was reported stolen from a few months before the crime. And discarded the weapon there. Could that be because the killer wanted it to appear the bugler that stolen the weapon in Windsor a few months prior is the one that committed the murders?

It is certainly a possibility that the Windsor link was simply a cunning deflection on the part of the killer, and that he was sending police on a wild goose chase, but I personally doubt it. To my mind, he has to have had a strong connection to Windsor. Either he passed through frequently, had family or friends there, or lived there.

The murder weapon stolen months, reported stolen that is months before the murder, was not shown to have been involved in any other killings or crimes? It was reported stolen and than a few months later used to kill these girls in toronto and than discarded back in the city it was reported stolen from.

I don't know whether it was involved in any other crimes. That is information police haven't publicly released, to my recollection.

The shells recovered indicated a .38 calibre weapon had been used.

I am going to assume they mean bullets recovered during the autopsy.
And not casings found at the crime scene?

I know very little about guns. Revolvers don't eject casings, right? If that's the case, talking about "recovered shells" on the website is quite amateurish on the part of police.

Forgive me but I am asking questions as I think of them and that is why I am editing.
In parts of Canada they speak English and french or both. Which is it in this area?

Actually, neither. We speak Inuktitut, live in igloos, and hunt for our food. Just kidding. Officially, this is a bilingual country, and many people across the country speak both official languages. However, Quebec is the heart of French Canada, whereas English is the primary language of the rest of the country. Some Quebecois speak no English, and many people from the rest of Canada speak no French.

It seems the girls may have went to the sit and eat and ordered a coke while waiting for someone.
They didnot run a tab or order food because they were killing time. They may have gotten there before the person they were going to met there arrive, so they odered there cokes and paid for them. A short time later the person they were waiting for showed up and the girls left without being notice leaving. But then one must ask if the girls knew the killer for this to have happened. And there is nothing to tell us in fact they did.......I did read the LEOS were told they may had been looking to buy some weed that night.......
Have the girls been known to have purchased there smoke in the Windsor area before?

One question i know we will never know the answer to is whether or not the girls finished those cokes or if they left before they did.

We don't know if the girls were actually there specifically waiting for someone. Some people brought up that they might have been looking to buy weed that night, but I don't think there has been confirmation. It is strange to me that, although they were familiar with the restaurant, they went there on a school night, so far off-course from their routes home.
By all accounts they were coming home westbound on Lawrence Ave., either from Yorkdale or, more likely to my mind, directly from downtown. For Wendy to get home, she would typically more than likely have continued west on Lawrence and then taken a Jane St. bus northbound to her apartment, which was at 40 Falstaff Ave., just east of Jane. I don't think there was/is a bus route on Falstaff. Donna lived in the Jane St. and Driftwood Ave. area, so she would have taken the same route, except she would have stayed on the Jane bus after Wendy alighted at Falstaff.
The restaurant was on Keele St. 3 km (2 miles) north of Lawrence Ave., not an inconsiderable distance to travel just to have a couple of cokes and perhaps burgers.
As far as the girls having a connection to Windsor, there is none of which I am aware.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Apparently the police exhausted all avenues in searching for the gun's origin, who stole it, and so forth. That was by far their best lead. The weapon had passed through so many hands that it was impossible to learn who ended up with it. That is my understanding, which could be misinformed or mistakenly recalled.
It is certainly a possibility that the Windsor link was simply a cunning deflection on the part of the killer, and that he was sending police on a wild goose chase, but I personally doubt it. To my mind, he has to have had a strong connection to Windsor. Either he passed through frequently, had family or friends there, or lived there.
I don't know whether it was involved in any other crimes. That is information police haven't publicly released, to my recollection.
I know very little about guns. Revolvers don't eject casings, right? If that's the case, talking about "recovered shells" on the website is quite amateurish on the part of police.
Actually, neither. We speak Inuktitut, live in igloos, and hunt for our food. Just kidding. Officially, this is a bilingual country, and many people across the country speak both official languages. However, Quebec is the heart of French Canada, whereas English is the primary language of the rest of the country. Some Quebecois speak no English, and many people from the rest of Canada speak no French.
We don't know if the girls were actually there specifically waiting for someone. Some people brought up that they might have been looking to buy weed that night, but I don't think there has been confirmation. It is strange to me that, although they were familiar with the restaurant, they went there on a school night, so far off-course from their routes home.
By all accounts they were coming home westbound on Lawrence Ave., either from Yorkdale or, more likely to my mind, directly from downtown. For Wendy to get home, she would typically more than likely have continued west on Lawrence and then taken a Jane St. bus northbound to her apartment, which was at 40 Falstaff Ave., just east of Jane. I don't think there was/is a bus route on Falstaff. Donna lived in the Jane St. and Driftwood Ave. area, so she would have taken the same route, except she would have stayed on the Jane bus after Wendy alighted at Falstaff.
The restaurant was on Keele St. 3 km (2 miles) north of Lawrence Ave., not an inconsiderable distance to travel just to have a couple of cokes and perhaps burgers.
As far as the girls having a connection to Windsor, there is none of which I am aware.

Thank you for your detailed responses.
quote...I know very little about guns. Revolvers don't eject casings, right? If that's the case, talking about "recovered shells" on the website is quite amateurish on the part of police...End of quote.

Thats correct. revolvers do-not, If they made a correct statement that shells were found, the killer would have had to take them out of the gun afteer firing it and leave them there.....Shells are like casings.,both hold the bullet..........If they meant bullet fragments found during the autopsy concluded it was fired from a 38 than they should change the message written on there site...Finding shells at the crime scene, which is how I read it first, is an important fact!

 

[CrimeSolver]

Thank you for your detailed responses.
quote...I know very little about guns. Revolvers don't eject casings, right? If that's the case, talking about "recovered shells" on the website is quite amateurish on the part of police...End of quote.

Thats correct. revolvers do-not, If they made a correct statement that shells were found, the killer would have had to take them out of the gun afteer firing it and leave them there.....Shells are like casings.,both hold the bullet..........If they meant bullet fragments found during the autopsy concluded it was fired from a 38 than they should change the message written on there site...Finding shells at the crime scene, which is how I read it first, is an important fact!

Ah, thanks. Perhaps he did remove the shells. But why? A ritualistic aspect?

 

[Chorley8]

Ah, thanks. Perhaps he did remove the shells. But why? A ritualistic aspect?

I would like to know with what certainty we know the girls were killed were they were found. We have at least one clear ear-witness who heard shots around 12:05 supposedly coming from the area of the field and whatever forensic evidence there was at the scene. At least two parts of this:

1. Just what crime investigators could figure out circa 1970s with the time and resources they had.

2. Any uncertainties due to a job that could have been done better (not saying there was a problem there but not impossible).

I am to some extent a proponent of the idea the bodies were moved there. The shell casing evidence if accurate would fit with that. The strange posture of their bodies could fit with the being moved each body separately if at the same time. Being found near at least one gate fits with that. If we could explain away the earwitness from Winston Blvd. then a large time line opens up in terms of time of death - unless a really good job was done at the time with the autopsies. Moved from where? nearby house, a car, home of someone connected to the drug scene at the restaurant including residences very close to the SitnEat (cannot say what I am thinking exactly here) or Wendy's new apt. assuming they had a key to it. Couple more things:

1. Wonder if any of the many and various witnesses had ties to Windsor.

2. A different idea: the freakiness of the crime scene dissolves if we think of 1. an initial murder 2. the second in quick succession to remove the witness. Possibility that the first murder could even be an accident as in young people playing with guns etc. Possibility the crime scene could be put in place as it was even by an authority like a parent to protect their kid.
Yes I am speculating and no doubt a bit too much.

Reason for speculation: it is the hard-nosed execution element that has stymied all investigators - so of course worth considering that it didn't happen that way. No less plausible than an itinerant madman IMO. (The fact that Wendy and Donna were heading there after a one year absence if true significant - the unusual route etc. and then they meet up with such a character - possible but seems unlikely).

It would be great if the sister could back on to ask that one question: do you know whether Wendy had keys to her new apartment yet that fateful night (?) - I often was given keys early in TO if the place was unrented. If so and I was 17 I would want to go over there even if it was empty - and smoking grass in your first new place would have seemed paradisial to lots of kids.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Ah, thanks. Perhaps he did remove the shells. But why? A ritualistic aspect?

If that is correct, which at this point I am not sure 100 percent that is the correct meaning on the website...My first impression if this was fact, was a frame up...The killer left the shells for the police so they would know without doubt it was a 38, and than took the gun back to Windsor where it was reported stolen months earlier.and with the intention they found the shells when they found the gun they would compare the two and discover the shells came from that gun, which was the murder weapon. I am not sold yet that this gun was stolen by a stranger or a intruder. But perhaps someone whom knew the person that had the gun in there possession. Perhaps someone whom lived there at one time with the owner............If you know of any articles i can read about this break-in, could you post them if and when you can if it is no trouble for you. I am interested in knowing if anything else was taken, if it was a real break in or just made to resemble one.

But this is just speculation IF indeed shells/casings were left at the crime scene.

 

[CrimeSolver]

Chorley, more interesting food for thought from your end.

If you know of any articles i can read about this break-in, could you post them if and when you can if it is no trouble for you. I am interested in knowing if anything else was taken, if it was a real break in or just made to resemble one.

MrTT, I believe the most detailed info I have ever seen about the gun and the Windsor break-in is at the TPD case page, which isn't much. As far as I remember, no newspaper article I have seen delved into it in any depth. No doubt detectives know a hell of a lot more about what you're asking. Would that LE could fill us in on some of our questions and debunk or verify some of our theories/conclusions.

 

[Chorley8]

I realize the fact of two women around 17 being shot once each in a different country two decades later is hardly a link to anything. But WS featured case right now involves a case in the U.S. early 90s- since there is so little to go on I think it is still useful to compare similar cases - on that thread someone asks if there were cases like this that occurred near military bases. Just documenting and that case is intriguing - and of course awful - but after all this is WS. It is a short thread - two girls go out at night in a car to go to a party get lost never arrive - found dead in the trunk each shot once one in forehead once in cheek - they believe killed in the car but in a different location than where they were found. There was a false confession and a few suspects.