That's right. The other neighbour heard thuds at 11:00. I think we can discount those sounds being anything of importance. The girls would have still been at the restaurant, or just leaving, at that time.I have seen consistently witness Korn. 17 and possibly also her family heard shots at 12:00 witness C. living close by heard thuds at 11:00 which she thought might be noise from the 401.
Not likely, unless someone emails him. I've done more than my share of fruitless emailing for this case. I'm finished.May be a mistake in Haines. Will he answer questions for us do you think?
Yes, I applaud your discretion, although I have been naming some of the people involved. It's all part of the public record, but with openness of Internet searches, one doesn't want to drag folks back into this needlessly after 40 years (This April 27th is the 40th anniversary).By the way I am not giving witnesses full name just so their names don't needlessly show up on general web searches not of course because they are suspect in any way.
You're not the only one; I agree with you. This has bothered me, too. I'm not familiar with guns, but a .38 would be quite loud, I think (it's not the tinny sound of a .22, which one might ignore). The neighbourhood was/is a clean middle-class place. Gunshots would definitely have been glaringly out of place there. Why the Korenblums didn't call 911 (or maybe look out a back window to see what's happening!) is anyone's guess.Man those shots would be close to the houses ( my obsession I know, the proximity). Not to blame but who wouldn't call this in? Young daughter in the house maybe kids I don't know - bedrooms possibly facing the back - don't know what to make of that, nothing I guess.
Armstrong seems like a credible, open witness, and he saw a lot. If I were investigating this now, I would definitely go back to re-interview him, as I'm sure they have.Wonder about one thing: SitnEat cleaned up in last year. Wendy and Donna hadn't been there in a year (Armstrong witness). Restaurant sold to M.G. in January supposedly. Armstrong had seen them there a lot before hitching out front seems like multiple times for sure. Did Donna and/or Wendy get "stung" by anyone then informed on the restaurant or the scene there? Now lured back there somehow. Significant they are killed their first visit back in a year if Armstrong is correct. (I doubt his evidence less than I did.)
I say the "odds are slim" because my uninformed guess is that, given the murders' proximity to the highway, and the location where the gun was later found, the girls were probably murdered by a drifter. The best chances to solve this existed in '73. The killer may have been a truck driver, as there are some factories in the area, and the stretch of 401 between Toronto and the Windsor border (the world's busiest border crossing) is an extremely busy commercial trucking corridor. I doubt it had anything to do with drugs, their peers, the school, or "The Jungle" (which is more than 2 kms from the crime scene anyway), but all that is just rank empirical speculation on my part. The drifter theory makes the most sense to me, but I'm no professional investigator (in fact, in hindsight I regret assuming the hubristic moniker "CrimeSolver" here at this forum, when there are so many actual professionals).
I have read about her writing about her death, but it has only been mentioned in passing in the articles I have read. It would be very interesting to see her actual story or diary.Chorley8 said:Someone was telling me about the vivid dream Wendy had of I think being shot with a friend - supposedly when LE checked her locker at school she had written out the dream - and it was evocative of what actually happened. Any of you who have looked at this case for a while know about this - and what do you make of it? Thanks in advance
It has been previously posited that maybe it was an American, and a draft dodger is a possibility. There's just no evidence that I'm aware of to prove it either way.What about a Vietnam draft dodger from the states?
Just started reading the long thread. So if its been answered somewhere already just ignore this question
I have read about her writing about her death, but it has only been mentioned in passing in the articles I have read. It would be very interesting to see her actual story or diary.
It has been previously posited that maybe it was an American, and a draft dodger is a possibility. There's just no evidence that I'm aware of to prove it either way.
Apparently the police exhausted all avenues in searching for the gun's origin, who stole it, and so forth. That was by far their best lead. The weapon had passed through so many hands that it was impossible to learn who ended up with it. That is my understanding, which could be misinformed or mistakenly recalled.I believe this is a similiar weapon to the murder weapon? With one or two small differences between them.
I came across several that resemble the murder weapon, not exact though. But by appearance the murder weapon looks to be in what i would call horrible condition, not well taken care of..........Would like to learn more about the break in.
It is certainly a possibility that the Windsor link was simply a cunning deflection on the part of the killer, and that he was sending police on a wild goose chase, but I personally doubt it. To my mind, he has to have had a strong connection to Windsor. Either he passed through frequently, had family or friends there, or lived there.Stolen from Windsor and found in Windsor I read. Which is interesting. Girls found in Toronto, so the killer/killers took the gun back to the city it was reported stolen from a few months before the crime. And discarded the weapon there. Could that be because the killer wanted it to appear the bugler that stolen the weapon in Windsor a few months prior is the one that committed the murders?
I don't know whether it was involved in any other crimes. That is information police haven't publicly released, to my recollection.The murder weapon stolen months, reported stolen that is months before the murder, was not shown to have been involved in any other killings or crimes? It was reported stolen and than a few months later used to kill these girls in toronto and than discarded back in the city it was reported stolen from.
I know very little about guns. Revolvers don't eject casings, right? If that's the case, talking about "recovered shells" on the website is quite amateurish on the part of police.The shells recovered indicated a .38 calibre weapon had been used.
I am going to assume they mean bullets recovered during the autopsy.
And not casings found at the crime scene?
Actually, neither. We speak Inuktitut, live in igloos, and hunt for our food. Just kidding. Officially, this is a bilingual country, and many people across the country speak both official languages. However, Quebec is the heart of French Canada, whereas English is the primary language of the rest of the country. Some Quebecois speak no English, and many people from the rest of Canada speak no French.Forgive me but I am asking questions as I think of them and that is why I am editing.
In parts of Canada they speak English and french or both. Which is it in this area?
We don't know if the girls were actually there specifically waiting for someone. Some people brought up that they might have been looking to buy weed that night, but I don't think there has been confirmation. It is strange to me that, although they were familiar with the restaurant, they went there on a school night, so far off-course from their routes home.It seems the girls may have went to the sit and eat and ordered a coke while waiting for someone.
They didnot run a tab or order food because they were killing time. They may have gotten there before the person they were going to met there arrive, so they odered there cokes and paid for them. A short time later the person they were waiting for showed up and the girls left without being notice leaving. But then one must ask if the girls knew the killer for this to have happened. And there is nothing to tell us in fact they did.......I did read the LEOS were told they may had been looking to buy some weed that night.......
Have the girls been known to have purchased there smoke in the Windsor area before?
One question i know we will never know the answer to is whether or not the girls finished those cokes or if they left before they did.
Apparently the police exhausted all avenues in searching for the gun's origin, who stole it, and so forth. That was by far their best lead. The weapon had passed through so many hands that it was impossible to learn who ended up with it. That is my understanding, which could be misinformed or mistakenly recalled.
It is certainly a possibility that the Windsor link was simply a cunning deflection on the part of the killer, and that he was sending police on a wild goose chase, but I personally doubt it. To my mind, he has to have had a strong connection to Windsor. Either he passed through frequently, had family or friends there, or lived there.
I don't know whether it was involved in any other crimes. That is information police haven't publicly released, to my recollection.
I know very little about guns. Revolvers don't eject casings, right? If that's the case, talking about "recovered shells" on the website is quite amateurish on the part of police.
Actually, neither. We speak Inuktitut, live in igloos, and hunt for our food. Just kidding. Officially, this is a bilingual country, and many people across the country speak both official languages. However, Quebec is the heart of French Canada, whereas English is the primary language of the rest of the country. Some Quebecois speak no English, and many people from the rest of Canada speak no French.
We don't know if the girls were actually there specifically waiting for someone. Some people brought up that they might have been looking to buy weed that night, but I don't think there has been confirmation. It is strange to me that, although they were familiar with the restaurant, they went there on a school night, so far off-course from their routes home.
By all accounts they were coming home westbound on Lawrence Ave., either from Yorkdale or, more likely to my mind, directly from downtown. For Wendy to get home, she would typically more than likely have continued west on Lawrence and then taken a Jane St. bus northbound to her apartment, which was at 40 Falstaff Ave., just east of Jane. I don't think there was/is a bus route on Falstaff. Donna lived in the Jane St. and Driftwood Ave. area, so she would have taken the same route, except she would have stayed on the Jane bus after Wendy alighted at Falstaff.
The restaurant was on Keele St. 3 km (2 miles) north of Lawrence Ave., not an inconsiderable distance to travel just to have a couple of cokes and perhaps burgers.
As far as the girls having a connection to Windsor, there is none of which I am aware.
Ah, thanks. Perhaps he did remove the shells. But why? A ritualistic aspect?Thank you for your detailed responses.
quote...I know very little about guns. Revolvers don't eject casings, right? If that's the case, talking about "recovered shells" on the website is quite amateurish on the part of police...End of quote.
Thats correct. revolvers do-not, If they made a correct statement that shells were found, the killer would have had to take them out of the gun afteer firing it and leave them there.....Shells are like casings.,both hold the bullet..........If they meant bullet fragments found during the autopsy concluded it was fired from a 38 than they should change the message written on there site...Finding shells at the crime scene, which is how I read it first, is an important fact!
Ah, thanks. Perhaps he did remove the shells. But why? A ritualistic aspect?
Ah, thanks. Perhaps he did remove the shells. But why? A ritualistic aspect?
MrTT, I believe the most detailed info I have ever seen about the gun and the Windsor break-in is at the TPD case page, which isn't much. As far as I remember, no newspaper article I have seen delved into it in any depth. No doubt detectives know a hell of a lot more about what you're asking. Would that LE could fill us in on some of our questions and debunk or verify some of our theories/conclusions.If you know of any articles i can read about this break-in, could you post them if and when you can if it is no trouble for you. I am interested in knowing if anything else was taken, if it was a real break in or just made to resemble one.