CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

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BBM

Where EB was last seen seems to be heresay imo. The last sighting is reported by a young woman working at the tennis courts at UofT Scarborough, who reported seeing EB after talking to the Bain family during the first search of the park near where car was found - a browse of thread #1 will reveal that the same person was involved in another murder years later.

Her credibility is up to the individual reading about her claims and further endeavors. Jmo.

Prior to the 'sighting' of EB at the tennis courts was at her home, where her ID, purse and the project she had been working on for her night class were found. That project was due to be turned in the evening she went 'missing'. She left home without it? The story was, she left home about 4:00 pm to go to the tennis courts and would then return home for dinner, then return to campus for a 7:00 pm class.

Imo, one needs to look slightly outside the box on this one - not just where TPS tells people they need to look.

Eyesonly - you highly advocate not believing what TPS has said at any point in this case, including not giving TPS any new info on the case, yet looking in or near the park where her vehicle was found is the only logical option for you. I don't get that.

Jmo.

FYI, any info that I have advocated in not believing by the way of tps has been proven that they were wrong.
And FYI, we have given them absolutely everything we have found. JS did a full police video tape on everything and gave them hard copy paper on everything.
Anybody is more than welcome to contact tps about anything on this case. I have just stated the facts from our experience that they will have no further part in investigating this case, even to find EB.
And I fully agree about looking outside the box and not just where tps tells to look. That is partly why we want to clear up behind where her car was found, because they are dead set against helping looking there by providing a cadaver dog.

JP......yes that is spinners name, but we aren't supposed to be providing names on these threads as a WS rule, that's why I've stuck to his nickname. Maybe the first name might be okay, I'm not sure, but definitely not the last if I am correct on the rules.
 
JP......yes that is spinners name, but we aren't supposed to be providing names on these threads as a WS rule, that's why I've stuck to his nickname. Maybe the first name might be okay, I'm not sure, but definitely not the last if I am correct on the rules.

"Wayne" is actually a nickname of his also, that's why i have it in quotes
 
"Wayne" is actually a nickname of his also, that's why i have it in quotes

Actually wayne is his real name. We have his first and last name. We know someone who actually knew wayne from younger years. Wayne actually lived a few blocks over from me in Scarborough, which I didn't know. I have talked to a relative of his last year and confirmed his identity and name.
We are really interested in where this trailer he was living in was as you saw it. That would be of great help JP. And the year you are talking about. Please elaborate a bit.
 
Actually wayne is his real name.

okay, i wasnt positive on that


We are really interested in where this trailer he was living in was as you saw it. That would be of great help JP. And the year you are talking about. Please elaborate a bit.

difficult to describe as the streets in that area kind of go in all kinds of strange directions, if i was there i could point it out, or if i had a satellite map of the area i could circle it
 
yes that is the location i remember it being

Thank you for the confirmation JP. Another question. Your recollection of his trailer being there is from the year 1990 correct? And if so, then would it stand to reason that the B siblings would also have known who spinner was, not necessarily personally, but at least on the level you described. Again, for the year of 1990.
Thanks
 
BBM

Where EB was last seen seems to be heresay imo. The last sighting is reported by a young woman working at the tennis courts at UofT Scarborough, who reported seeing EB after talking to the Bain family during the first search of the park near where car was found - a browse of thread #1 will reveal that the same person was involved in another murder years later.

Her credibility is up to the individual reading about her claims and further endeavors. Jmo.

Prior to the 'sighting' of EB at the tennis courts was at her home, where her ID, purse and the project she had been working on for her night class were found. That project was due to be turned in the evening she went 'missing'. She left home without it? The story was, she left home about 4:00 pm to go to the tennis courts and would then return home for dinner, then return to campus for a 7:00 pm class.

Imo, one needs to look slightly outside the box on this one - not just where TPS tells people they need to look.

Eyesonly - you highly advocate not believing what TPS has said at any point in this case, including not giving TPS any new info on the case, yet looking in or near the park where her vehicle was found is the only logical option for you. I don't get that.

Jmo.

I was thinking more in terms of where RB claims to have seen EB's car parked in the valley.

RB, pg 35, 'No Claim To Mercy', on spotting EB's car on the day she went missing:
"...driving east on Old Kingston Road...parked by itself in the rectangular lot that cuts into the valley area on the north side of the street"

He said he approached the car several times within 20 minutes after spotting her car at approximately 6:45 pm on the day she was last seen.

FWIW, I believe EB's car was there and RB approached it. (RB is placing himself at EB's car in a location that is relatively close to where her car was eventually found).

Not arguing his guilt or innocence - just placing a pin in that location.
 
EB told her mother that she was going to 'check the tennis schedule', which didn't make any sense to anyone as the courts were first come, first serve (no pun intended!).

What about tennis lessons or when court time could be booked off for tennis teams? Could that have been what she was checking? I could be wrong, but they couldn't identify one male she referred to in her journal - maybe he was connected to tennis lessons or a team? Theory: she went to check when this mystery guy was set to play, train or teach?

ETA: a previous post on the EB thread (# 228 on the 1st EB thread) said
A few years later I joined the U of T tennis club at Morningside Park where she (EB) worked and saw her there always as we booked out court times with her

(sorry if this has already been asked and answered)
 
EB told her mother that she was going to 'check the tennis schedule', which didn't make any sense to anyone as the courts were first come, first serve (no pun intended!).

What about tennis lessons or when court time could be booked off for tennis teams? Could that have been what she was checking? I could be wrong, but they couldn't identify one male she referred to in her journal - maybe he was connected to tennis lessons or a team? Theory: she went to check when this mystery guy was set to play, train or teach?

ETA: a previous post on the EB thread (# 228 on the 1st EB thread) said

(sorry if this has already been asked and answered)

Just doing some drive-by posting here tonite, but wanted to mention that I had suggested a few years ago in the Russ Williams threads that he might be a POI in EB's murder. He graduated from U of T, attended around the same time as Bernardo. I don't recall there was any mention about Williams himself playing tennis, but I recall that his parents were avid tennis players, and both Williams and EB were runners.

Haven't been to this thread for some time, so apologies if this has been linked/discussed earlier:

Baltovich wants Williams probed for Bain murder

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...02/11/12845941.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
 
Just doing some drive-by posting here tonite, but wanted to mention that I had suggested a few years ago in the Russ Williams threads that he might be a POI in EB's murder. He graduated from U of T, attended around the same time as Bernardo. I don't recall there was any mention about Williams himself playing tennis, but I recall that his parents were avid tennis players, and both Williams and EB were runners.

Haven't been to this thread for some time, so apologies if this has been linked/discussed earlier:



http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...02/11/12845941.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Appreciate the drive-by sillybilly. Feel free anytime.
From everything I've searched and read on williams, the police have not found any other criminal activity before he started his break-ins in tweed I believe it was. And I think that was around 2007, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
He was a typical escalator it seems. Breaking in and stealing underwear, to sexual assault then to murder.
Anyway, that's my take on Williams fwiw.
 
I was thinking more in terms of where RB claims to have seen EB's car parked in the valley.

RB, pg 35, 'No Claim To Mercy', on spotting EB's car on the day she went missing:


He said he approached the car several times within 20 minutes after spotting her car at approximately 6:45 pm on the day she was last seen.

FWIW, I believe EB's car was there and RB approached it. (RB is placing himself at EB's car in a location that is relatively close to where her car was eventually found).

Not arguing his guilt or innocence - just placing a pin in that location.

Fwiw, I fully believe EB's car was where RB said he saw it. Just failing to see actual proof that EB was the one that drove it there or that she was in it when the car was driven away. Also don't see that EB was deceased and hidden in the park for a couple of days (LE and Spinner scenario) as CFS discounted that theory from the beginning. Which is why RB is trying to amend his lawsuit - that info came to light after he filed his initial claim. The handwritten note by Raybould, stating it was an impossible theory, according to CFS was buried on an undated, untitled piece of paper within thousands of pieces of paper.

Imo, the starting point for finding EB is incorrect. What is known is, EB called RB from home about 11:00 am on the last day she was seen.

All jmo.
 
Fwiw, I fully believe EB's car was where RB said he saw it. Just failing to see actual proof that EB was the one that drove it there or that she was in it when the car was driven away. Also don't see that EB was deceased and hidden in the park for a couple of days (LE and Spinner scenario) as CFS discounted that theory from the beginning. Which is why RB is trying to amend his lawsuit - that info came to light after he filed his initial claim. The handwritten note by Raybould, stating it was an impossible theory, according to CFS was buried on an undated, untitled piece of paper within thousands of pieces of paper.

Imo, the starting point for finding EB is incorrect. What is known is, EB called RB from home about 11:00 am on the last day she was seen.

All jmo.

The theory that was discounted was that Ebs body couldn't have been hidden in the valley for a couple of days and transported in her own car afterwards.
That was the LE theory. That was not the theory in regards to spinner.
Eb's starting point should be early morning before that phone call to RB when EB was talking out her window to her mother. Her sister Cb and brother PB were a witness to her being there that morning.
Eb's bother pb also testified that he saw her come home around 2pm in the afternoon.
Unless your starting point is not to include family.
 
Eb's bother pb also testified that he saw her come home around 2pm in the afternoon.

Sorry, need to clarify this statement. PB left the house around 2-230pm that afternoon and at that time he saw EB was home.
I will have to check to see for sure if he says EB got home at 2pm or was just seen at home at 2pm.
 
The theory that was discounted was that Ebs body couldn't have been hidden in the valley for a couple of days and transported in her own car afterwards.

i agree with this,

the blood found in the car was relatively fresh, it came from somebody who was living at the time or very recently deceased (within a few hours), it could not have come from a body that was 2-3+ days old, even the blood expert said this,

EB's mom was a nurse, EB's sister CB also worked in the medical field, i won't say any more in public but lets ad 2+2 and do the math, the blood in the car was never proven to come from EB, only from her or a family member/sibling.....hhhhmmmm:thinking:

i am pretty sure i know where that blood came from, and i dont think it was from EB at all :secret:
 
Previous posts are that CFS testified the blood in the rear of the car came from a female offspring of Mr and Mrs B. We know of 2 - EB and sister C.

Why was CFS unable to verify with 100% certainty (or 99.999999 % in the DNA world) that the blood came from EB? Were they unwilling to do this or were they refused a sample from sister C?

I don't think the blood came from EB either. The total quantity of blood in the car was also said to be less than one would donate in a single sitting.
 
Why was CFS unable to verify with 100% certainty (or 99.999999 % in the DNA world) that the blood came from EB?

i am assuming that technology was not available at the time,

another strange thing is the blood in the car was not smeared at all, it looked like somebody poured it out of a cup, if somebody was dragging a body in and out of the car it would be smeared, and why put a body in the car anyway? i dont have any experience with this, but common sense to me would be to put it in the trunk out of sight?

that blood was planted there on purpose, i don't think EB's body was ever in that car after death
 
The technology was available at that time - Canada was using the RFLP process then. That can be checked.

Did you see the blood stains? The blood being poured onto the mat is something I have believed since I became interested in this case - unable to remember the source I read that from - likely the book NCTM. It was the main reason I began looking for an alternative theory to EB's disappearance.

The drag marks only went in one direction - I believe inwards. No drag marks outwards. Staged imo - I would have believed drag marks outwards only as the possibility for EB to have voluntarily entered the back seat is possible - but not drag marks inwards only. Just wrong. And yes the trunk is far more sensible if one finds themselves in that position.

JohnPaul - do you specifically remember if there were 2 sets of keys to the car? When EB and brother PB shared the vehicle, did they each have a set of keys? Sometimes when buying a used vehicle, only one set of keys are available. Tia.
 
The technology was available at that time - Canada was using the RFLP process then. That can be checked.

Did you see the blood stains? The blood being poured onto the mat is something I have believed since I became interested in this case - unable to remember the source I read that from - likely the book NCTM. It was the main reason I began looking for an alternative theory to EB's disappearance.

The drag marks only went in one direction - I believe inwards. No drag marks outwards. Staged imo - I would have believed drag marks outwards only as the possibility for EB to have voluntarily entered the back seat is possible - but not drag marks inwards only. Just wrong. And yes the trunk is far more sensible if one finds themselves in that position.

JohnPaul - do you specifically remember if there were 2 sets of keys to the car? When EB and brother PB shared the vehicle, did they each have a set of keys? Sometimes when buying a used vehicle, only one set of keys are available. Tia.

i did not see the blood stains in person, but i think i saw pictures at one point in time,

there were definitely more then one set of keys to the car, PB had his own key, there might have been a third key but i cant say for sure, EB used a huge key chain that was actually made for a boat, we used to make fun of it, but she liked it, it was never found, i have attached a picture of a similar one, but i recall hers being more white then blue,

PS, ignore the writing on the key chain, this is just a random pic i found)
 

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i am assuming that technology was not available at the time,

another strange thing is the blood in the car was not smeared at all, it looked like somebody poured it out of a cup, if somebody was dragging a body in and out of the car it would be smeared, and why put a body in the car anyway? i dont have any experience with this, but common sense to me would be to put it in the trunk out of sight?

that blood was planted there on purpose, i don't think EB's body was ever in that car after death

If her body or parts of it were in a bag and some blood poured out from there, the blood would look fresher and appear the way you describe it, IMO.
 

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