Canada - Laura Babcock, 23, Toronto, 26 June 2012

[MuhGruff]

Did police check her cell phone pings at all to pinpoint her location from her calls, texts? If not, why not? I see police fast tracking this case because of CONFIRMATION (???) that she phoned DM in her last phone calls. DM is charged with first degree murder and forcible confinement in TB's death. Escorts are aplenty in TO and most, if not all, use the internet to get clients and advertise. Girls have been going missing and some of these cases are still unsolved. However, from what I understand, DM was not interviewed by police in Laura's disappearance and I have to wonder why. Just another case of police not taking missing women's cases seriously. JMO.

If it wasnt taken seriously it's not because she's a woman but rather the "type" of woman she was. When she went missing LE assumed she went underground for the 'party scene' (drugs and stripping and strippers travel everywhere).

She could be living in the west coast doing her thing

 

[MsSherlock]

It seems to me that TPS acted like any other metropolitan police department under similar circumstances. LE walks a fine line when an able adult goes missing with no sign of foul play, because adults have the right to disappear without LE snooping around behind them. Privacy issues can place limitations on their work. Search warrants, for instance, are difficult to obtain without probable cause. (To my knowledge, Canada doesn't differ very much from the U.S. in that respect.) When the person lives a transient lifestyle and/or is a sex trade worker, you can forget it. Little to nothing will be done to locate him/her unless a trail of blood is left behind, or evidence the missing person absconded after committing a crime. But because no one's seen or heard from a person? No. Those files get shoved to the bottom of the stack. That's a sad fact of life, but it is what it is around the world, not only in Toronto. MOO

That is a sad fact, however, HPS certainly didn't hesitate to get involved immediately when TB didn't come back from a test drive. When I think back to Christmas when a Toronto man went missing, TPS didn't appear as aggressive in that search as HPS did with TB. Makes me wonder that if TB had lived in Toronto if it would have been handled the same way and if DM would be in jail today.

 

[musicaljoke]

Is it possible that the TPS didn't find any further remains on the farm because the Hamilton Police had already been there, done that, and the two aren't working together? This writer for the Hamilton Spec raises the question.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3255379-clairmont-where-questions-trump-answers/

From the Spec- "For instance, Toronto detectives went to Millard's farm last week near Waterloo and dug for two days, after Hamilton police had already spent 10 days there doing the same thing and more. It was there that Hamilton police found Bosma's burned remains.

"Carbone says Toronto police obtained new information that led to their dig, during which "no evidence was located."

"Hamilton police learned Toronto was at the farm through the media."

 

[Dion]

getting back to the phone records.

As I recall, the phone bill went directly to Laura's family address, and the family shared this info with SL. SL took (a copy?) of the phone bill to a meeting with DM. DM denied any contact with Laura, until SL confronted him with the evidence.

Where it get hazy, is -- who forwarded the phone bill to TPS? Did Laura's family pass on this information to the lead detective? It only makes sense that they did, if they were trying to locate her. If they didn't do this - should the investigator asked for the records as a matter of course? You always want to know who the missing person last made contact with, either in person or by phone/email.

I had originally thought that the phone records were passed on to LE who didn't bother contacting DM (or tried to call him, but he was out of the country) but it now sounds as if they are saying that they never received them in the first place, and it was only after DM became a murder suspect that they were made aware of them. Someone is not telling the truth here.

EDITED TO ADD:
I have just read the T. Sun article where SL says he gave the records to the police.

And the notion flies in the face of what her former boyfriend, Shawn Lerner, told Tamara Cherry of CTV last month. He said he delivered those records to police and was treated shabbily.

also Laura's father confirms that

Especially since Laura Babcock's father, Clayton, while not critical of police, confirmed to me that police had all of the phone information.

now I don't know what to think...

 

[AddyFinch]

It seems to me that TPS acted like any other metropolitan police department under similar circumstances. LE walks a fine line when an able adult goes missing with no sign of foul play, because adults have the right to disappear without LE snooping around behind them. Privacy issues can place limitations on their work. Search warrants, for instance, are difficult to obtain without probable cause. (To my knowledge, Canada doesn't differ very much from the U.S. in that respect.) When the person lives a transient lifestyle and/or is a sex trade worker, you can forget it. Little to nothing will be done to locate him/her unless a trail of blood is left behind, or evidence the missing person absconded after committing a crime. But because no one's seen or heard from a person? No. Those files get shoved to the bottom of the stack. That's a sad fact of life, but it is what it is around the world, not only in Toronto. MOO

Absolutely accurate!
Let's not point fingers to the mistakes the LE are making, but stay on track and assist them with ideas/sleuthing. We can get too caught up in LE blunders and flubs.They are only human. And we know from previous cases they can make huge errors.

 

[MsSherlock]

If it wasnt taken seriously it's not because she's a woman but rather the "type" of woman she was. When she went missing LE assumed she went underground for the 'party scene' (drugs and stripping and strippers travel everywhere).

She could be living in the west coast doing her thing

Thats true, but IMO, LE should investigate every missing person expeditiously to determine that there's enough evidence that points in that direction. To think that TPS actually said in their presser that they had just recently obtained LB's cell phone records indicates to me that no investigation was done at all. I thought cell phone records were a pretty standard thing for LE to investigate right out of the gate. Further more, how did they determine that she was an internet sex trade worker? Hearsay? I figure that with the caliber of the sleuthers on this forum, that if anything was online, something would have been uncovered by now. MOO

 

[AddyFinch]

Laura could be anywhere. She may not be aware of this case. She may not care. And yes she could be anywhere on that Millard Farm. A few holes dug means nothing, but how do you search that whole farm? If the incinerator was used, it make the search nearly impossible.
If this young lady was in the sex trade, my theory of biker involvement continues to make sense. Don't the bikers control the sex trade here? They do the strippers.

 

[greenthumb]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3255379-clairmont-where-questions-trump-answers/

I'm more concerned that Toronto doesn't seem to be working with Hamilton's detectives.

For instance, Toronto detectives went to Millard's farm last week near Waterloo and dug for two days, after Hamilton police had already spent 10 days there doing the same thing and more. It was there that Hamilton police found Bosma's burned remains.

Carbone says Toronto police obtained new information that led to their dig, during which "no evidence was located."

Hamilton police learned Toronto was at the farm through the media.

You'd think maybe Toronto would want to ask Hamilton police some questions before literally going over the same ground. Share information. Help each other out.

Especially when Toronto has a lot of catching up to do.

Very disappointing to hear that TPS is not working together with HPS - brings to mind the gaps in sharing of info between police services which was revealed as a major failure in the Bernardo case. Time for TPS to get over 'turf wars' and work cooperatively with HPS, IMO.

IMO, even if TPS followed customary procedures back in 2012 when LB was reported missing, once the connection with DM was revealed, they had every reason to conduct a very thorough investigation - and yet their spokesman, Carbone, appears confused as to whether they have seen the phone records or not, and if so, when - and he has not seen the pics on the suicidegirls website, etc. Overall, he appeared to less than fully informed and unprepared for the press conference, IMO.

Also IMO, the dropping of the 'internet escort' label may just be CYA policing - he did not reveal how they arrived at that conclusion, and the fact that WS sleuthers have not come up with any online evidence of such leads me to question if TPS may have 'embellished' a bit. Of course, more info may come out with time that will clarify that.

All just MOO.

 

[Woodland]

The police claim that they were not made aware of the phone records until after DM was arrested.

Exactly - which is why I find it impossible to believe any of the info now coming from TPS - too much of it will be untrue.

 

[MsSherlock]

Is it possible that the TPS didn't find any further remains on the farm because the Hamilton Police had already been there, done that, and the two aren't working together? This writer for the Hamilton Spec raises the question.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3255379-clairmont-where-questions-trump-answers/

From the Spec- "For instance, Toronto detectives went to Millard's farm last week near Waterloo and dug for two days, after Hamilton police had already spent 10 days there doing the same thing and more. It was there that Hamilton police found Bosma's burned remains.

"Carbone says Toronto police obtained new information that led to their dig, during which "no evidence was located."

"Hamilton police learned Toronto was at the farm through the media."

Thanks for this link! Interesting that the writer points out the fact that she doesn't believe that TPS is talking with HPS. My immediate thoughts went the same way. It'll be months before HPS finish investigating all the evidence they obtained during their extensive search...and a rational person would think that TPS would have a detective working with HPS to see if there is anything that may be connected to their open cases. I believe there was a severe lack of communication involving police forces with the Bernardo case as well...thought that was never suppose to happen again?

I believe Sgt. Matt Kavanagh told media that HPS had implemented a new method in their investigations-where they put everything they could into front end of the investigation, when evidence and leads were fresh, thus the 120 officers on the case right out of the gate. Looking for the link.

 

[MsSherlock]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3255379-clairmont-where-questions-trump-answers/



Very disappointing to hear that TPS is not working together with HPS - brings to mind the gaps in sharing of info between police services which was revealed as a major failure in the Bernardo case. Time for TPS to get over 'turf wars' and work cooperatively with HPS, IMO.

IMO, even if TPS followed customary procedures back in 2012 when LB was reported missing, once the connection with DM was revealed, they had every reason to conduct a very thorough investigation - and yet their spokesman, Carbone, appears confused as to whether they have seen the phone records or not, and if so, when - and he has not seen the pics on the suicidegirls website, etc. Overall, he appeared to less than fully informed and unprepared for the press conference, IMO.

Also IMO, the dropping of the 'internet escort' label may just be CYA policing - he did not reveal how they arrived at that conclusion, and the fact that WS sleuthers have not come up with any online evidence of such leads me to question if TPS may have 'embellished' a bit. Of course, more info may come out with time that will clarify that.

All just MOO.

lol Green...it would appear that we were thinking of the same thing and typing the same thing at the same time!

 

[matou]

The police claim that they were not made aware of the phone records until after DM was arrested.

So they say. If SL says he went to police with the records and info, then someone is covering up. If LE did not receive the records, why did they not check her phone records, why wait a year to do this? Only because of DM's name being out there, IMO. If she was not involved in DM, police probably would still not have checked her records or followed up on SL's information. Sad. JMO I have a bad feeling that LB is dead and has been since she went missing. I hope I'm wrong.

Matou :heart: cops. For real xo

 

[MsSherlock]

Interesting that TPS also knew that DM and LB did not have a traditional relationship. Exactly who would have told them that? IMO, it does look like they contacted DM back then and he gave them a very believable story of how she was a mess, had started escorting, had a drug problem and thru herself on him occasionally and he was just trying his best as a nice guy to help her. Now TPS is backtracking and perhaps HPS should keep as far away as possible from them for fear they may blow their case! MOO

 

[musicaljoke]

Laura could be anywhere. She may not be aware of this case. She may not care. And yes she could be anywhere on that Millard Farm. A few holes dug means nothing, but how do you search that whole farm?.

If the TP hadn't even discussed their purpose in searching the farm nor did they notified the HP that they were going there, what was the purpose of their work? You are right to say that a few holes isn't a complete search. Was it just a spectacle for public display? Note that the holes weren't covered as they had been when the HP was working there earlier.

Is this typical arrogance - "big city LE is more experienced and better equipped than smaller city LE"? Surely that would be pathetic. Something else must be afoot.

Gosh, there is something very frustrating going on in the search for LB. I hope that she is safe and well.

 

[parcheesy]

Near the beginning of the presser, the Det says he became aware of the phone records after the arrest of Mr. Millard and that it is his understanding that the detectives at 22 division also became aware of the records after the arrest of Mr. Millard. Then, at around 4:42 he says at some point officers at 22 division would have become aware of these records and would have conducted searches on her telephone and discovered those records, even before we became involved it it.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.1310377

 

[puppyraiser]

No detective is going to come out in a news conference and say that others in the department dropped the ball and did not do a thorough investigation. Yet it was evident by some of the questions and answers that a thorough investigation is exactly what didn't happen when LB disappeared and also holds true of the most recent investigation. The look on his face when asked about the photos was priceless.

Each missing persons case deserves to be looked into thoroughly, without prejudice of lifestyle, wealth or social status.

 

[MsSherlock]

If the TP hadn't even discussed their purpose in searching the farm nor did they notified the HP that they were going there, what was the purpose of their work? You are right to say that a few holes isn't a complete search. Was it just a spectacle for public display? Note that the holes weren't covered as they had been when the HP was working there earlier.

Is this typical arrogance - "big city LE is more experienced and better equipped than smaller city LE"? Surely that would be pathetic. Something else must be afoot.

Gosh, there is something very frustrating going on in the search for LB. I hope that she is safe and well.

Actually quite a contrast in the two searches. HPS hand dig, sift, forensic tents, grid search, mounted unit etc and TPS brings in the backhoe and dig 4 foot holes, break for a day or two while it rains (did they even cover the holes during the deluge?)and then continue as if they were going to actually dig precisely to a piece of evidence? Looked more like an exercise to say "yes...we were there and we didn't find anything" Furthermore, they unleashed a bunch of weed wackers out onto the area without doing a ground search of the area first-certainly didn't look like a typical and thorough investigation. MOO

 

[jash]

That is a sad fact, however, HPS certainly didn't hesitate to get involved immediately when TB didn't come back from a test drive. When I think back to Christmas when a Toronto man went missing, TPS didn't appear as aggressive in that search as HPS did with TB. Makes me wonder that if TB had lived in Toronto if it would have been handled the same way and if DM would be in jail today.

In this interview with the Hamilton Police Chief, he says there are 2400 to 2500 people who go missing in the city each year and "We have the same procedure, the same response in all cases. And it's just the evidence that presents itself that causes us to escalate the investigation, or take us in the direction that we need to go. It's the evidence that guides us."

http://www.chch.com/web-extra-glenn-de-caire-interview/ (start watching around 2:00)

He goes on to explain that when TB didn't return from a test-drive, they had an empty driveway, and a wife and daughter who were concerned about his whereabouts.

In LB's case, I think (hope) TPS may have acted differently if she was living at home, went out for some milk or something one night, and was reported missing immediately by her family after failing to return. The fact is she had moved out of her parents home and had been staying with various friends and a hotel, and there was no definitive missing date or event (sounds like she stopped contacting friends at different times). I'm not even sure if a judge would have signed a search warrant/production order for phone and financial records based on that set of circumstances?

What is the case you refer to from December? Did they ever find the man?

 

[axe2grind]

Somewhere in here I read that the police were asking SL for the serial number of the iPad he had given LB. From that request, I would assume they have found an iPad and are trying to determine if it is the same one SL had given to LB. Hopefully there is some useful information in it's memory, but how much does an iPad memory actually keep track of and logged?

After a bit of reading, maybe it's the other way around. They just wanted to know the serial number of the iPad in case they DO find something.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...pect-dellen-millard-before-her-disappearance/

 

[greenthumb]

No detective is going to come out in a news conference and say that others in the department dropped the ball and did not do a thorough investigation. Yet it was evident by some of the questions and answers that a thorough investigation is exactly what didn't happen when LB disappeared and also holds true of the most recent investigation. The look on his face when asked about the photos was priceless.

Left me wondering what Carbone did that PO'd his superiors enough that he got stuck doing that presser. It was definitely not a bright & shining moment for him personally, or for TPS.