Canada - Laura Babcock, 23, Toronto, 26 June 2012

[bessie]

Woodland, the statement was retracted.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9572425&postcount=889"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CANADA - Laura Babcock, 23, Toronto, 26 June 2012[/ame]

 

[cansleuther]

IIRC it was actually another statement that was redacted - a comment from someone who claimed to have seen LB after she was reported missing. All of the posts regarding this were removed shortly after.

The post regarding Treasures was not taken down by the site admins, which may mean they still think it is relevant. LB's aunt says that location has been visited by LB previously to disappearing. She does not mention how long before she disappeared she may have been there though, or how she came across this information.

 

[Carli]

IIRC it was actually another statement that was redacted - a comment from someone who claimed to have seen LB after she was reported missing. All of the posts regarding this were removed shortly after.

However the post regarding Treasures is still up, which may mean there is truth in it. LB's aunt says that location has been visited by LB previously to disappearing. She does not mention how long before she disappeared she may have been there though, or how she came across this information.

Wait a sec. I thought it was LE who reported she'd been in contact with others AFTER she'd been in touch with DM. (Frankly, I just presumed that since she was advertising her availability on an escort service website, LE simply contacted her contacts. IMO)

Anyway, given her mom's obvious nervousness in the televised press conference I wondered whether nothing much has been made of her disappearance by her family because they know full well where she is and that she's ok. It is certainly possible, is it not, that SL is among those persons, maybe even THE person she's trying to avoid for whatever reason MOO. Some people may see his determination to find her as the generous actions of a wonderful friend. Others could see it as stalking. I have no particular opinion either way. But the fact remains she's not officially considered a missing person and her family does not appear to be worried about her welfare, imo. I call red herring. MOO.

 

[Carli]

IIRC it was actually another statement that was redacted - a comment from someone who claimed to have seen LB after she was reported missing. All of the posts regarding this were removed shortly after.

However the post regarding Treasures is still up, which may mean there is truth in it. LB's aunt says that location has been visited by LB previously to disappearing. She does not mention how long before she disappeared she may have been there though, or how she came across this information.

Wait a sec. I thought it was LE who reported she'd been in contact with others AFTER she'd been in touch with DM. (Frankly, I just presumed that since she was advertising her availability on an escort service website, LE simply contacted her contacts. IMO)

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/69...aperwork-to-get-laura-babcocks-phone-records/

Carbone said Babcock began working in the sex trade, advertising as an escort on the Internet. He said there is no evidence Millard was a client.

According to Babcock’s phone records, she and Millard exchanged a series of calls that ended July 3, 2012, Carbone said. He added she is believed to have had some kind of contact with other people after that time, but he would not elaborate.
Anyway, given her mom's obvious nervousness in the televised press conference I wondered whether nothing much has been made of her disappearance by her family because they know full well where she is and that she's ok. <modsnip> I have no particular opinion either way. But the fact remains she's not officially considered a missing person and her family does not appear to be worried about her welfare, imo. I call red herring. MOO.

 

[cansleuther]

Wait a sec. I thought it was LE who reported she'd been in contact with others AFTER she'd been in touch with DM. (Frankly, I just presumed that since she was advertising her availability on an escort service website, LE simply contacted her contacts. IMO)

LE did report she had been in contact with others after her previously reported "last" calls to DM. However, someone also posted on the Help Us Find Laura FB page that they had physically seen LB in Toronto on a specific date in July (IIRC it was July 14 or 15). It was this statement that was called hearsay and redacted by the family, not the statement by LE.

 

[Carli]

LE did report she had been in contact with others after her previously reported "last" calls to DM. However, someone also posted on the Help Us Find Laura FB page that they had physically seen LB in Toronto on a specific date in July (IIRC it was July 14 or 15). It was this statement that was called hearsay and redacted by the family, not the statement by LE.

I see, cansleuther. Thanks for the clarification. Tell you the truth I'm not sure why so many have found it necessary to try to pile the presumed disappearance of Laura Babcock onto the serious charges presently waged against DM and MS. Let's spend public time and money proving one thing at a time, imo, starting with the one that delivers the most clear evidence of murderous wrongdoing, in this case the tragic death of TB and, I might add, the one case that involves formal charges against the accused. MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

I see, cansleuther. Thanks for the clarification. Tell you the truth I'm not sure why so many have found it necessary to try to pile the presumed disappearance of Laura Babcock onto the serious charges presently waged against DM and MS. Let's spend public time and money proving one thing at a time, imo, starting with the one that delivers the most clear evidence of murderous wrongdoing, in this case the tragic death of TB and, I might add, the one case that involves formal charges against the accused. MOO.

I get the feeling as soon as "escort" was mentioned, Laura became less significant to people. This girl's been gone for a year and you refer to it as "presumed" disappearance. I call that a disappearance until such time is Laura is found alive and well.

Nobody cared much about looking for all the drug-addicted stws that ultimately proved to be Pickton's victims either until bodies showed up on the farm. Maybe if they'd spent more public time and money looking for some of those women earlier, they'd be alive today.

JMO

 

[skatergirl]

IIRC it was actually another statement that was redacted - a comment from someone who claimed to have seen LB after she was reported missing. All of the posts regarding this were removed shortly after.

The post regarding Treasures was not taken down by the site admins, which may mean they still think it is relevant. LB's aunt says that location has been visited by LB previously to disappearing. She does not mention how long before she disappeared she may have been there though, or how she came across this information.

Just to clarify then, the post was not taken down by site admins, or not taken down at all?
I went back quite a way on the HUFL fb page earlier and did not see this post by the Aunt.

 

[skatergirl]

I see, cansleuther. Thanks for the clarification. Tell you the truth I'm not sure why so many have found it necessary to try to pile the presumed disappearance of Laura Babcock onto the serious charges presently waged against DM and MS. Let's spend public time and money proving one thing at a time, imo, starting with the one that delivers the most clear evidence of murderous wrongdoing, in this case the tragic death of TB and, I might add, the one case that involves formal charges against the accused. MOO.

I certainly don't wish to make the case involving TB seem unimportant, but if LE can only do one thing at a time, God help our society, not to mention the fact that there are 2 different LE agencies responsible for details surrounding the TB case and the disappearance of LB, certainly that should alleviate that issue. Finally, if LB has only gone missing and there is even the slightest chance she is still alive, certainly finding an alive LB should be of utmost importance even with all the investigation going on involving TB. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

LE did report she had been in contact with others after her previously reported "last" calls to DM. However, someone also posted on the Help Us Find Laura FB page that they had physically seen LB in Toronto on a specific date in July (IIRC it was July 14 or 15). It was this statement that was called hearsay and redacted by the family, not the statement by LE.

It was July 5th and I don't believe the person had actually seen LB, only talked to her about where/who she was going to stay with. There are still a couple of comments on the page that give an idea of why the posts were removed. Scroll down to June 15th at 10:40.

 

[cansleuther]

Just to clarify then, the post was not taken down by site admins, or not taken down at all?
I went back quite a way on the HUFL fb page earlier and did not see this post by the Aunt.

It was not taken down at all. It's actually buried in the comments on a post from June 6. The original post is also from LB's aunt, asking for help looking through all of the photos on SG. There are 22 comments on the post. Hope that helps!

 

[Woodland]

Wait a sec. I thought it was LE who reported she'd been in contact with others AFTER she'd been in touch with DM. (Frankly, I just presumed that since she was advertising her availability on an escort service website, LE simply contacted her contacts. IMO)

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/695093/police-slow-on-paperwork-to-get-laura-babcocks-phone-records/

Carbone said Babcock began working in the sex trade, advertising as an escort on the Internet. He said there is no evidence Millard was a client.

According to Babcock’s phone records, she and Millard exchanged a series of calls that ended July 3, 2012, Carbone said. He added she is believed to have had some kind of contact with other people after that time, but he would not elaborate.
Anyway, given her mom's obvious nervousness in the televised press conference I wondered whether nothing much has been made of her disappearance by her family because they know full well where she is and that she's ok. It is certainly possible, is it not, that SL is among those persons, maybe even THE person she's trying to avoid for whatever reason MOO. Some people may see his determination to find her as the generous actions of a wonderful friend. Others could see it as stalking. I have no particular opinion either way. But the fact remains she's not officially considered a missing person and her family does not appear to be worried about her welfare, imo. I call red herring. MOO.

If Carbone is saying '.. she is believed to have had some kind of contact with other people after that time ...' then imo he doesn't know.

Doesn't seem reasonable, imo, that LB's family knows where she is and that she's OK.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I agree that LB's disappearance is just as important. In fact, maybe more so because she could still be alive. And I think there are many of us who don't think she's less important because of any alleged involvement in the escort business. But, unfortunately, there is very little information out there. I do feel though, that putting all one's attention on only one suspect, can let the real one slip through unnoticed.

JMO

 

[skatergirl]

If Carbone is saying '.. she is believed to have had some kind of contact with other people after that time ...' then imo he doesn't know.

Doesn't seem reasonable, imo, that LB's family knows where she is and that she's OK.

Agreed

bbm
Here is a quote from Ann Brocklehurst's blog on the topic
When asked at the press conference about contacts after July 3, Carbone did not say “I believe,” but rather, “There is more. At this point we’re reaching out to the public and trying to identify more witnesses so that we can confirm the contacts she had…
A few minutes later, I stood next to a television reporter asking Carbone to confirm again that Laura had contact with people after her final call to Dellen Millard. The detective did reply yes, but he seemed very unsure of himself. So much so that the reporter asked the same question again to confirm it, and he said yes yet again.I found the whole thing bizarre because even answering for a second time, Carbone seemed so visibly uncertain.

Quite frankly, my overwhelming impression was that the police were grasping at straws, trying to find a post-July 3 contact because it would make a failure to follow up with Dellen Millard less outrageous.
http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...llard-about-laura-babcocks-disappearance.html

 

[cansleuther]

If Carbone is saying '.. she is believed to have had some kind of contact with other people after that time ...' then imo he doesn't know.

Towards the very end of the press conference he reiterates to a reporter that she definitely has had contact with at least one person after DM. He also says that would prefer the person(s) to come forward on their own.

I wonder how long TPS will wait for these person(s) to come forward before seeking them out themselves. Or if they already have, and have not updated the public.

And I think there are many of us who don't think she's less important because of any alleged involvement in the escort business. But, unfortunately, there is very little information out there.

Agreed. And it also unfortunate that the media, etc. only seemed to be interested in LB's disappearance because of her connection to DM. As soon as it started looking like DM might not be involved, a lot of people appeared to lose interest.

 

[Pink Panther]

A grown woman has disappeared off the face of the earth. She was reported missing just shortly after she disappeared and nothing happened. Now that she's been connected with someone who might be (MIGHT BE) connected with a murder, LE does a press conference that basically doesn't provide a shred of information in finding her?

Do they know the internetz is out here?

moo

 

[JPC]

If during the ongoing TB/LB investigations, LE has found evidence of LB DNA, personal belongings etc., spoken to witnesses who may be able provide details on the relationship between LB/DM just prior or after she was last seen by friends and family, does LE have a specific time limit to press charges or could they have found some evidence but could continue the investigation to ensure that this is an airtight case before charges are filed and announced? For instance, they could find LB DNA on DM's property but if nothing more than that ie no body, it could be justified as occurring do to a sexual relationship? If the primary suspect is in custody so not a danger to the public but more evidence is required to bring charges could LE investigate indefinitely without charging the suspect, letting LB's family know or letting the general public know?

 

[Archangel7]

If during the ongoing TB/LB investigations, LE has found evidence of LB DNA, personal belongings etc., spoken to witnesses who may be able provide details on the relationship between LB/DM just prior or after she was last seen by friends and family, does LE have a specific time limit to press charges or could they have found some evidence but could continue the investigation to ensure that this is an airtight case before charges are filed and announced? For instance, they could find LB DNA on DM's property but if nothing more than that ie no body, it could be justified as occurring do to a sexual relationship? If the primary suspect is in custody so not a danger to the public but more evidence is required to bring charges could LE investigate indefinitely without charging the suspect, letting LB's family know or letting the general public know?

Yes they can investigate indefinitely on a totally different charge and arrest case number.

If the person is being "held" solely to be investigated(no charges laid), there is a reasonable limit to his time in custody before formal charges have to be laid or he has to be freed.

Also there is a reasonable limit once an affidavit is sworn and signed. If a person is in Police's custody for that particular affidavit/charge, he has to be formally charged(arrested) and given his rights.
In other words you can't swear an affidavit of crime, interrogate the suspect forever, before you get around to formal arrest and giving him his rights.

MOO

 

[Blomquist]

I certainly don't wish to make the case involving TB seem unimportant, but if LE can only do one thing at a time, God help our society, not to mention the fact that there are 2 different LE agencies responsible for details surrounding the TB case and the disappearance of LB, certainly that should alleviate that issue. Finally, if LB has only gone missing and there is even the slightest chance she is still alive, certainly finding an alive LB should be of utmost importance even with all the investigation going on involving TB. MOO

Maybe what was mean't was that the case for TB should be simply that. The case for LB should be given equal consideration on it's own merit. Just because SL took the opportunity to link LB to DM when the TB case came to be, doesn't mean DM is intrinsically linked to the LB case IMO.

LE from the look of it have to date failed LB because they didnt think she was worth a proper search party JMO So it seems LE could not even launch a proper investigation for LB...until now... so yes if there is a God he/she hopefully will help us all as the situation of getting lawful assistance is getting dire on many levels IMO JMO

 

[Woodland]

Just for clarity in post #961, SL brought his link between DM and LB up again after DM was arrested - something he had first done 3 seasons prior to the arrest when LB was first missing.