Canada - Liana White, 29, Edmonton AB, 12 July 2005 - #1

[otto]

Ok, then maybe she was carried away kicking which caused her shoes to come off.

Or maybe she just let her feet fall and her shoes fell off.

What would anyone do if someone picked them up while threatening them with a weapon ... unless there was a cell phone escape (that was tossed into the field) ... probably not struggle and maybe let their feet fall, hoping the left behind shoes would provide a clue to what happened to them.

 

[otto]

There's over 80 missing and unsolved murders in Alberta, especially Edmonton area since early 80's. THEY'RE JUST NOW talking about it potentially being the SAME person. Pssssss's me off. And many of the girls were dumped almost in our back yard just south of Sherwood Park. They refuse to call it a serial killer though. GO FIGURE :waitasec:

I thought it was more like about 34 women in the Edmonton area since the 1980's. They have called it a serial killer (won't paste or link properly) for the last 6 months:"CNN.com - Canada fears second serial killer - Jun 9, 2005
Each woman's body was found in farmers' fields, every few years at first, then more frequently. With every death, fear grows that Edmonton is the second western Canadian city to be home to a killer preying on prostitutes. ... say if they believe a serial murderer is roaming the northern Alberta city, where the bodies of 25 ... unwilling to say if a serial killer was at work until they ... www.cnn.com ", partially inspired by Robert Pickton and his 30 years of murdering prostitutes.

There is speculation, like in the Pickton case, that the person behind the murders in Edmonton is familiar with rural settings ... may even live in Leduc or Camrose. He often dumps the bodies, burned, near Sherwood Park but that's probably not his back yard. That's probably where he wants to be - kind of a sick offering to a life he never had. Sherwood Park is like the Hamptons of Alberta so the offering of dead bodies is the surrounding area has some social indications.

They're calling it a serial killing and they're now trying to find information on what happened to these women, but no one knows anything about the burned and discarded missing prostitutes in Edmonton. There is no DNA evidence. No one noticed them missing ... for too long ... they're sex industry girls with no real schedule.

 

[otto]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but if the SUV was left unlocked/door open someone else may have come along and seen the purse on the seat and helped themselves to her wallet. I can imagine them going through it as they run off and tossing any identifying cards etc and just keeping the money??

I also got a shock when I saw the photo of her hubby! Image of Mark Hacking!!! I feel so sorry for him if he has nothing to do with her disappearance because I think everyone is going to make the comparison between the both of them!

\

Nope. Edmonton is not like that. If the door was left open and it was dusk, a lot of people would have noticed and any wallet prowlers would have been noticed and deterred ... didn't happen ... no one was prowling around this remote area and scammed her wallet between her being abducted and the police being notified. I can say that for sure.

I can imagine the driver, like what happened in California with Carol Sundringham (sp?) and the two teenagers, where the guy threw the identification out the window in a town in the wrong direction of where he took them. The ID toss seems to be random and deliberate at the same time, but not something that Liana would do. She would never have let go of her cell phone unless it wasn't an option either.

No kidding. He's about the same age as Mark Hacking. He's bald like Mark Hacking. His wife's car was found close to home and she is missing just like Mark Hacking. After that, pretty much everything is different. Mike White did not report the disappearance, he was not out buying a new mattress in the hour after his wife was discovered missing, he's not a sociopath, there is no confusion about his and Liana's future plans, he and his wife live in a very stable family oriented neighbourhood with their toddler and Liana is currently 4 months pregnant ... everything points to a random act of violence and any association with Mark Hacking ... well ... how many bald 30 year olds do we see every day walking down the street? So her husband was bald and fat ... just like Mark Hacking. Does that make him guilty? Nope. He may have looked down and to the left when he started crying at the last second of the interview, but he wasn't looking down and to the left during the interview - he was not like Scott Peterson in any way.

I think this is a bad situation that is not over yet. The reason the questioning started with Mike and her co-worders is because the police are trying to determine if she was seeing someone on the side, meeting someone in the parking lot.

 

[otto]

I am still going with looking at the hubby. The fact that there seems to be a serial killer there might give hubby the idea that he could arrange a scene to "explain" a murder.
My reasoning:
The scene of the vehicle seems "staged". Her purse is in the car, yet her ID is strewn around, bank cards and credit cards are recovered. Her keys are there. Her shoes are an oddity that is out of place- maybe left there to help indicate a struggle. Open door also to indicate a struggle. Yet no other signs of a struggle.
There are 2 witnesses that report seeing the vehicle there, before the time she was supposed to have left for work. (It took 3 calls to LE, to get them to take a look at the scene). Only her hubby to say that she left for work at the usual time.
She was a mother with a young child and pregnant, so it is not likely that decided to run off and leave her child.
Other murders have shown that during pregnancy can be a risky time in a relationship.

If the hubby was going to stage a serial killing, he would have to burn the body east of the city.

Nothing about the event seems staged. I think someone pulled her over or she was meeting someone she knew. There is no other explanation for her car door being open and that's not a detail bad guys think about ... yet.

Apparently the times of seeing a vehicle in the same parking lot before 6:15 a.m. are not corroberated, but any information could lead to the discovery of Liana; that is, it could lead to information about other similar vehicles in the parking lot earlier in the morning.

Pregnancy is a big risk in marriage during the first pregancy, but the second? I think they've gotten used to the idea of having a baby and I hardly think that having a second child is a "risky time". Mike White is at home with his 1 year old daughter trying to explain why he's messed up and mom is away. The second pregancy, Liana being pregnant, is not a big deal.

It would be absolutely idiotic of this Edmonton man to pull a Mark Hacking after what happened with Mark Hacking - as though he were invisible on the internet.

 

[otto]

From the officer:
>>"In fact, I can say that one tip came forward that that vehicle had been there the night prior. Well, then we had a report of the next morning. So through the investigation we will tighten that timeline."<<

WUH OH! THE NIGHT BEFORE? WUH WUH WUH OH! Wonder what time it was seen the night before. If it was seen AFTER the neighbor was with Lianna and her daughter Ashley petting the dog, then WUH OH...WUH WUH WUH OH!

ft

That goes along with what I'm saying ... that people have come forward to say their SUV's were parked in the lot before 6 a.m. and may have been mis-identified as Liana's SUV (aren't all SUV's beige grey?).

It's important to keep the facts straight, no matter how scared we are, because the information the police have is all that is necessary to find the missing person - so long as they have the facts.

 

[otto]

No press conference? No news? It is 9:33pm here, approx. time of Edmonton and no news?

FT

In Canada, they don't do media hype news conferences but if you watch the news at 6, all the information if available.

Here's the latest news conference info:

"Twenty-nine-year-old Liana White, pregnant with her second child, has been missing since Tuesday morning.

Acting Inspector Jamie Ewatski says police have found no evidence of foul play and are still treating it as a missing person case.

White's SUV was found abandoned not far from her home, but all her belongings, including bank cards and credits, have apparently been accounted for.

There have been conflicting reports from witnesses about when White's vehicle was first spotted.

Ewatski says investigators are checking all accounts thoroughly in order to get an accurate timeline around her disappearance."

(doesn't sound good for the husband)

 

[otto]

I guess we can't just post an image here? Other than are AV?

Are AV is a given and posting images is not an option.

 

[otto]

basically its the timeline that twigs me-as soon as there is a descrepancy such as when she left the house vs when the car was noticed I am suspicious..he should know the time she leaves-he is married to her and its not the first time she left for work..its a routine.

If there's something twiggy about the timeline, the police will see it and find the answers. There will be no news conferences. The story will be buried in the news on page 2 in about 3 weeks. This is okay with Canadians. We don't want the hysterics that happened in Aruba or with Scott Peterson in our country and we're perfectly happy letting the law figure it out in their own time. If anyone could figure it out faster, they wouldn't be sitting on the sidelines like we are. Mike knows when Liana left the house and so do the neighbours. This will become a criminal investigation in the next 12 hours and everyone knows she will not be found alive.

 

[Casshew]

Otto, please don't lump all Canadians together like you did with that last post. I disagree with a good portion of it.

I wanted to ask you about your comment on the colour of SUV's - they come in all colours just like cars do, not just beige etc...

 

[otto]

oh thanks- i dont care if she is 190 if its true-but it didnt sound right to me and I would have factored that into how mobile she could have been-not very at 190 pounds-pregnant-5.4..however, 150 sounds right for her stage in the pregnancy..

Sorry for posting again but is 150 and 5'4" about right for 4 months pregnant? In your dreams?

This is a very fat woman no matter how you look at it. I"m 5'9" and 140 pounds so I'm not even going to imagine what a little dumpling that is ... and no way does that sounds right for her stage of pregnancy. 9 months pregnant on a 5'9" frame is about 165 pounds (giving 25-30 pounds for the fetus). About 5'4", 4 months pregnant and 150 - 190 pounds ... that's just plain fat. Speaking of which, why doesn't her husband know how much she weighs? 5'4" should weigh about 150 at 9 months pregnant max.

 

[otto]

Otto, please don't lump all Canadians together like you did with that last post. I disagree with a good portion of it.

I wanted to ask you about your comment on the colour of SUV's - they come in all colours just like cars do, not just beige etc...

Exactly. Whoever saw an SUV in the parking lot before 6:15 may have seen any number of any other vehicles of similar colours. Did I hear that this was the Y parking lot?

You may disagree with a portion of what I said, but why?

 

[amandab]

Sorry for posting again but is 150 and 5'4" about right for 4 months pregnant? In your dreams?

This is a very fat woman no matter how you look at it. I"m 5'9" and 140 pounds so I'm not even going to imagine what a little dumpling that is ... and no way does that sounds right for her stage of pregnancy. 9 months pregnant on a 5'9" frame is about 165 pounds (giving 25-30 pounds for the fetus). About 5'4", 4 months pregnant and 150 - 190 pounds ... that's just plain fat. Speaking of which, why doesn't her husband know how much she weighs? 5'4" should weigh about 150 at 9 months pregnant max.

Ok, I'm not even going to respond to the parts of this post that I was offended by, which leaves me with - why didn't her husband know her weight?

If I were to disappear today, my hubby would have NO IDEA what my weight is. Not a clue. He'd know that it's more than I'd like it to be, and that's it. I have issues with my weight, and I don't share that number with ANYONE.

 

[otto]

Ok, I'm not even going to respond to the parts of this post that I was offended by, which leaves me with - why didn't her husband know her weight?

If I were to disappear today, my hubby would have NO IDEA what my weight is. Not a clue. He'd know that it's more than I'd like it to be, and that's it. I have issues with my weight, and I don't share that number with ANYONE.

What are you saying, that the men you are closest to have no idea how much you weigh because you would prefer to weigh less? I don't buy that. Any man should be able to, at the very least, accurately estimate how much his wife weighs just because they live together. There's a big difference in 40 pounds on a 5'4" frame.

 

[Mabel]

The recommended NON-pregnant weight for a woman 5'4" tall is between 114 and 151 pounds, depending on frame size. 150 pounds for a woman who is 4 months pregnant is not out of line at all. Certainly it's not "very fat" or a "dumpling". How utterly offensive!

 

[Casshew]

Sorry for posting again but is 150 and 5'4" about right for 4 months pregnant? In your dreams?

This is a very fat woman no matter how you look at it. I"m 5'9" and 140 pounds so I'm not even going to imagine what a little dumpling that is ... and no way does that sounds right for her stage of pregnancy. 9 months pregnant on a 5'9" frame is about 165 pounds (giving 25-30 pounds for the fetus). About 5'4", 4 months pregnant and 150 - 190 pounds ... that's just plain fat. Speaking of which, why doesn't her husband know how much she weighs? 5'4" should weigh about 150 at 9 months pregnant max.

I disagree with this post too :hand:

 

[otto]

The recommended NON-pregnant weight for a woman 5'4" tall is between 114 and 151 pounds, depending on frame size. 150 pounds for a woman who is 4 months pregnant is not out of line at all. Certainly it's not "very fat" or a "dumpling". How utterly offensive!

Do you have a reference? 5'4" should not be more than 150 at 9 months pregnant. Please prove me wrong. By the way, the depending on frame size probably refers to the difference between 5'4" and taller.

That's not offensive. Women often refer to themselves as elephants when they are pregnant, particularly if they eat like horses because they are preganant. Are you suggesting that you've never seen a woman put on almost a hundred pounds, like a little dumpling, while pregnant?

 

[otto]

I disagree with this post too :hand:

and the reason is ...?

 

[Mabel]

Do you have a reference? 5'4" should not be more than 150 at 9 months pregnant. Please prove me wrong. By the way, the depending on frame size probably refers to the difference between 5'4" and taller.

That's not offensive. Women often refer to themselves as elephants when they are pregnant, particularly if they eat like horses because they are preganant. Are you suggesting that you've never seen a woman put on almost a hundred pounds, like a little dumpling, while pregnant?

You're totally rude....and the first person I've ever put on ignore.

 

[otto]

I disagree with this post too :hand:

Suppose, in this discussion board, I simply responded to your comments with:
"I disagree"

That seems a wee bit arrogant to me, as though I should know intuitively why you disagree. That's not much of a discussion.

 

[otto]

You're totally rude....and the first person I've ever put on ignore.

I am not totally rude. I believe all of the above to be true and if I'm on ignore with you, at least I will hopefully have more than 2 word answers from you. Oh yah, that wasn't you. I meant 3 word discussions: you're totally rude ... no I'm not.