GUILTY Canada - Loretta Saunders, 26, Halifax, NS, 13 February 2014 #2

[Truth Prevails]

Loretta's research topic proposal has not been released to the public. Her instructor said that she was assigned a 10 page proposal. Her proposal was 28 pages. He seemed overly emotional about the proposal even in the early email. He described that when they met to discuss the topic, he had a tear in his eye and had to look away. University professors aren't really supposed to do that (sexual harassment barriers, etc).

Loretta proposed to write about three victims of violence with a connection to Nova Scotia. Two of the victims were advocates for aboriginal rights, and the third might have been. One of the victims (1975) lived in the US and the accused was extradited from NS. He was convicted. Two of the three murderers are aboriginal, and the third is suspected to be known to the victim. One of the victims was murdered by her own son.

That is what we first heard about the proposal. Her instructor has an agenda, and now her research topic has morphed into a much bigger topic. Her topic seems to be about aboriginal men murdering aboriginal activists. Her instructor's topic seems to be "colonial violence". Somewhere in the middle, there is the question of missing/murdered aboriginal women, but that doesn't seem like the original research topic proposal, nor does it seem related to Loretta's murder.

Loretta's professor saw what a rising star she was, and recognized immediately that students like her only come along once in a long while.

I don't see Professor Leroux as having an agenda. I see him as an extremely intelligent man who knew a gifted student when he met one.

And he understands what her loss means.

 

[otto]

that was exactly what I was thinking and if so I believe LE was looking for the taxi driver that was parked outside the building at 2;30 on Feb13th if I am remembering correctly

Police considered him a witness and wanted to ask him what he saw at 2:30PM. Was that Feb 13 or 14? The Turkish boyfriend said that she left in the morning.

 

[otto]

Loretta's professor saw what a rising star she was, and recognized immediately that students like her only come along once in a long while.

I don't see Professor Leroux as having an agenda. I see him as an extremely intelligent man who knew a gifted student when he met one.

And he understands what her loss means.

Indeed, there is no question that her instructor believed that Loretta had a promising future. I don't think that anyone would disagree. However, her research topic proposal is not that "colonial violence" is the cause of missing/deceased aboriginal women in Canada. She was not researching colonial violence in Canada, she was researching Nova Scotia aboriginal men that murdered aboriginal women activists, one of whom lived in the US. Blake and Victoria were not committing Colonial violence.

 

[kdgdid]

It sounds like you're tapped into the facebook pages. Did he raise the $3000 he needed to attend the funeral with his mother tomorrow? She has come a long way to show her respects to the family.

yes YS is going to the funeral

 

[kdgdid]

Police considered him a witness and wanted to ask him what he saw at 2:30PM. Was that Feb 13 or 14? The Turkish boyfriend said that she left in the morning.

it was the 13th LE has been quoted as saying their belief is Loretta died in the apt on the 13th

 

[otto]

I understand that the tabling of the 30-40 reports in the House of Commons today means that nothing more can be said about the question of 118 or 900 missing women until it comes up in the calendar. It sounds like "tabled" means that the issue is closed until it is rotated onto the calendar.

Canada has more important things to worry about at this time with the Ukraine ... than to have government taken over by NDP calls for an inquiry when $25 million has already been made available for whatever purpose the Native centres see fit. Aboriginals want self government, and we already know that an inquiry by non-aboriginals will be rejected. There are calls for an inquiry, but what more is required? Is $25 million not enough? How much more money is required, and who will audit ... internal or external?

 

[otto]

it was the 13th LE has been quoted as saying their belief is Loretta died in the apt on the 13th

In my opinion, that puts into question pre-meditation. If 2:30PM on Feb 13 was important, maybe she wasn't kept overnight and then murdered. Perhaps this happened fast and the taxi driver could have witnessed a car pull up to the front door to load a 120 pound hockey bag. Alternatively, the taxi driver might have witnessed Loretta arriving the second time. Her family reported that she told them over the phone that they had to leave.

Either the taxi driver witnessed her arriving a second time, or he saw the suspects remove her body. I think it must be the former. If the below is true, then she was in contact with someone that day while she was trying to collect rent ... the Turkish boyfriend? If so, he would have had some context for her being so stressed, but forgetting her mother's maiden name? I suppose the hockey bag was taken out of the apartment in the dead of night ... perhaps early on Feb 14?

"“She went to get her rent Thursday and said if they didn’t have it she’ll tell them they have to leave. When she got there they weren’t home. She phoned them, apparently, and told them they had to leave.”

Video surveillance from the apartment shows her leaving the apartment on Thursday, Feb. 13, alone. It does not appear she was followed, said Saunders.

The apartment management says the building has a controlled-access lobby and monitored security cameras."

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2014/0...ta-saunders-disappearance-halifax-police-say/

 

[otto]

Was Loretta lured back to the apartment after she told them over the phone that they had to move out? Her sister said that Loretta went to the apartment and Blake/Victoria weren't there, so she phoned them and told them that they had to move out. She may have left the apartment and returned at about 2:30PM when the taxi driver was parked in front of the building. Maybe she phoned someone from the apartment to say that Blake/Victoria weren't home. Who was in the apartment first ... Loretta or Blake/Victoria. If Loretta was there, then a spontaneous confrontation could have occurred, if Blake/Victoria were there first, that seems like an ambush. What were Blake and Victoria doing on Feb 13? Were they facebooking or tweeting anything? Was their social media interrupted at any time?

It's too bad that she didn't think to notify security that their building access had to be terminated, and that she would meet security to reclaim the access card ... but I wouldn't have thought of that in the moment either. That would have saved her life. She obviously had no idea how dangerous Victoria and Blake could be.

It does seem like they lured her back to her apartment after she told them to move out - simply because they didn't have the money, so wouldn't that mean that they ambushed her in the apartment? That would constitute first degree murder.

 

[Truth Prevails]

That's a good point. If they were so close that they were sharing apartments after 2.5 years of dating, would they have keys to each other's apartment? Did he go to her apartment and see nothing out of place ... other than no one was home? Did he not have keys? Was it normal for them to be out of touch for a couple of days?

Loretta's sister received a text that said "Hey" and nothing else. She said that Loretta is usually, chatty so it didn't make sense that she only said "hey". By the time this happened, it was too late.

Loretta was only a few weeks pregnant ... perhaps too early for blood test confirmation. The friend from Turkey was not only not mentioned in the obituary, but when he sought donations for airfare in order to attend the funeral, there was some criticism. It doesn't sound like her family views him as being related to the pregnancy. Other than the interview with the head of the NS Native Centre, has the family recognized him as part of Loretta's family?

Did the Turkish friend recommend Blake and Victoria? It's possible, but he's a computer science student and it's unlikely that he could do that and be stoned with people like Blake and Victoria. If he introduced them and vouched for them, that might explain why the family doesn't appear to recognize him as part of the family.

Your question 1) Quote: "If they were so close that they were sharing apartments after 2.5 years of dating, would they have keys to each other's apartment?" My reply: I don't know. Perhaps someone can supply a MSM link, if this information is public knowledge.

Your question 2) Quote: "Did he go to her apartment and see nothing out of place ... other than no one was home?" My reply: Maybe he couldn't get inside the apartment? Why would he expect no one to be home--he knew she had tenants, I believe. Could he have noticed that her car wasn't there; so, therefore, decided to not bother the tenants?

Your question 3) Quote: "Did he not have keys" My reply: I believe this was covered in your first question.

Your question 4) Quote: Was it normal for them to be out of touch for a couple of days? My reply: I don't know. Again, perhaps someone can supply a MSM link, if this information is public knowledge.

You said in 2nd paragraph: Quote: "Loretta's sister received a text that said "Hey" and nothing else. She said that Loretta is usually, chatty so it didn't make sense that she only said "hey"." By the time this happened, it was too late. My reply: BBM. Yes, I agree. It was too late by the time Yalcin got the text from one of the accused murderers, too.

You said in 3rd paragraph: Quote: "Loretta was only a few weeks pregnant ... perhaps too early for blood test confirmation. The friend from Turkey was not only not mentioned in the obituary, but when he sought donations for airfare in order to attend the funeral, there was some criticism. It doesn't sound like her family views him as being related to the pregnancy. Other than the interview with the head of the NS Native Centre, has the family recognized him as part of Loretta's family?" My reply: BBM - Link, please--for both of your statements.

The family has indeed recognized Yalcin. There are better links than the following, but hopefully this one will suffice for now. I found the second paragraph of the quote interesting, too.

Quote: Yalcin Surkultay, Saunders’ boyfriend, who last saw her on the morning of Feb. 13, also sat quietly holding a photo.

Maloney shut down a line of questioning focusing on any information Surkultay might have about Saunders and her interactions with Leggette and Henneberry. Maloney said that was an investigative matter.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/...-family-stays-strong-we-are-going-to-find-her

There is a video at that link, that shows he was definitely accepted, imo. Maybe we will have more info on just how much they accept Yalcin--the father of Loretta's unborn child--after her funeral service tomorrow. He is attending.

You said in 4th paragraph: Quote: Did the Turkish friend recommend Blake and Victoria? It's possible, but he's a computer science student and it's unlikely that he could do that and be stoned with people like Blake and Victoria. If he introduced them and vouched for them, that might explain why the family doesn't appear to recognize him as part of the family. My reply: This is nothing but conjecture based on crude and unfounded Facebook rumours.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Copy, paste and link is typically what is done here. Yes, if you have a quote referencing stats about the preferred average height of victims of serial killers, please post the quote and link the reference. Thx

Here you go. It's a 12 page article, so this would fit under the 10% rule:
-----

Quote from Page 7: "The one noticeable similarity with almost all serial killer victims is their short height and low weight. "Five Foot Two, Eyes of Blue" should be the serial killer theme song. These small lightweight victims are easy to attack, easy to beat up, easy to carry or drag, easy to put in the trunk of a car, and easy to dispose of. Big victims are far too much work. Smallish men, smallish women, and children are easy for the killer too handle. This is one reason why the top choices for women serial killers are invalids and babies. All serial killers want to win. They choose victims they can kill successfully. Serial killing is not about sex at all, but about power and control and revenge on society. What is done to the victims is immaterial as long as they end up dead and the serial killer gets away with it. Winning is the name of the game for these losers and victims are chosen for their vulnerability and usefulness."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/s_k_myths/index.html

 

[otto]

Your question 1)

<respectfully snipped ~ format/length>

This is nothing but conjecture based on crude and unfounded Facebook rumours.

I can't provide links to questions I ask. If I knew the answer, I wouldn't be asking.

I see we agree that she had tenants.

I've posted the statements regarding the pregnancy, quoting both the Turkish boyfriend and the brother a couple of times. I'll post them again. It's fairly easy to search. Her brother stated on Feb 18 that Loretta told him about 3 weeks earlier that she was pregnant, that she was excited. The Turkish boyfriend said that Loretta tested positive for pregnancy, and that they were going to have blood tests to confirm.

I saw the video where the Turkish boyfriend was intercepted when he opened his mouth.

I don't use facebook. Is questioning the name of the "boyfriend" mentioned by Loretta's brother a facebook rumour?

 

[otto]

"Edmund [Loretta's brother] says Saunders phoned him about three weeks ago to tell him she was pregnant. He says she was excited about the pregnancy."

http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/halifax-...ng-university-student-1.1691877#ixzz2vLoafMBZ

"Surkultay said Saunders was not three months pregnant, as has previously been reported, but said she took a pregnancy test a few weeks ago that was positive. He said she was going to have a blood test done to confirm it."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...oyfriend-she-meant-everything-to-me-1.2545968

Same thing was posted four days ago ...

Found Deceased Canada - Loretta Saunders, 26, Halifax NS, 13 Feb 2014 #2 - Page 13 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Truth Prevails]

Indeed, there is no question that her instructor believed that Loretta had a promising future. I don't think that anyone would disagree. However, her research topic proposal is not that "colonial violence" is the cause of missing/deceased aboriginal women in Canada. She was not researching colonial violence in Canada, she was researching Nova Scotia aboriginal men that murdered aboriginal women activists, one of whom lived in the US. Blake and Victoria were not committing Colonial violence.

It sound to me like Loretta's research topic proposal may have been much broader than is appreciated:

...
I reread her thesis proposal last night and was reminded of how deeply she was aware of being a product of a Canadian society intent on destroying and eliminating indigenous peoples. That last word, “eliminating,” may seem extreme to some, but it is now so charged, so raw, so very real. Elimination.
...

It's our doing, which Loretta articulated so clearly in her writing -- theft of land base, legalized segregation and racism, residential schools for several generations, continued dispossession = social chaos.
...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/trying-to-make-sense-of-loretta-saunders-death-1.2555237

 

[otto]

It sound to me like Loretta's research topic proposal may have been much broader than is appreciated:

...
I reread her thesis proposal last night and was reminded of how deeply she was aware of being a product of a Canadian society intent on destroying and eliminating indigenous peoples. That last word, “eliminating,” may seem extreme to some, but it is now so charged, so raw, so very real. Elimination.
...

It's our doing, which Loretta articulated so clearly in her writing -- theft of land base, legalized segregation and racism, residential schools for several generations, continued dispossession = social chaos.
...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/trying-to-make-sense-of-loretta-saunders-death-1.2555237

BBM

If Loretta's starting point was researching female aboriginal activists and the reasons they were murdered by aboriginal men, then I suspect that she would indeed have completed important work.

Her thesis proposal is not published. Where did you read it?

In terms of "eliminating", is that like "ethnic cleaning" in the Bosnian war?

When did "colonial" oppression start in Nova Scotia, and when did Canada become a country? Wasn't the oppression in the 1700s and Canada became a country in 1867? Is colonial oppression and "elimination" responsible for Loretta's murder? Are any of the murdered/missing women over the last 70 years a result of colonial oppression? Is colonial oppression an on going problem in Canada and, if so, what are some examples of how this is apparent in murdered/missing aboriginal women?

 

[kdgdid]

LE has video of VH and BL carrying out a hockey baghttp://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=302955 So sad for the family as news starts to trickle out about what happened to her....I pray that she is at peace.

 

[kdgdid]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/...rried-from-apartment-building-in-a-hockey-bag

 

[otto]

Now I did specifically mention that I did not believe that Loretta was a victim of a serial killer.

However, 5'2"; 5'3"; 5'4"; 5'5"--with a weight in the vicinity of 120 lbs--that is something pretty manageable for most males.

I have no doubt that Victoria and Blake were able to easily ambush and murder Loretta. At 5'5", most woman wouldn't have a chance against two assailants.

 

[otto]

"The Chronicle Herald has learned that Saunders&#8217; body was in a hockey bag.

And sources in the justice system say investigators have a security video of two people carrying a hockey bag out of an apartment building on Cowie Hill Road in Halifax, where police allege Saunders was killed Feb. 13."

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/...rried-from-apartment-building-in-a-hockey-bag

I was right ... police have footage of Loretta leaving the apartment, but only the killers and police knew that it was in a hockey bag; that she was deceased. It's still possible that Loretta went to the apartment, left and returned to meet the pair at 2:30PM, but I think it must have spooked Victoria and Blake somewhat when police reported that they had surveillance video of Loretta leaving the apartment.

Regarding the release of pre-trial evidence:

"Const. Pierre Bourdages, spokesman for Halifax Regional Police, said in an email Thursday that the homicide investigation is still underway and therefore nothing would be said at this time. ... An autopsy was performed last weekend in Saint John, N.B.

Bourdages said nothing from the autopsy, including the cause of death, is being made public. &#8220;Because it&#8217;s before the courts, there are very few details that will be released,&#8221; he said.

Interesting fact about premeditation:

Months before Saunders&#8217; murder, Henneberry, who was on Facebook, asked a person advertising a gun for sale if the gun was &#8220;real.&#8221;... That post was made under Henneberry&#8217;s online pseudonym on Sept. 28, 2013. The poster was advertising what appears to be a rifle or a type of long gun, complete with photo, as part of a yard sale taking place in the Ottawa area. ... &#8220;Interested if it&#8217;s a real gun,&#8221; she said. The seller came back with &#8220;They don&#8217;t shoot anymore.&#8221;

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/...rried-from-apartment-building-in-a-hockey-bag

That Victoria was looking for a gun in Sept 2013 suggests that Loretta's murder was very pre-meditated. Sara Coates vanished in December in Calgary Alberta, just before Victoria and Blake left Calgary to go West to Chilliwack. Her van was found six months later on a reserve West of Calgary and her pets are missing. How did Blake and Victoria get from Calgary to Chilliwack? If they murdered Sara, why didn't they take her van?

 

[otto]

I'm all for Loretta Saunders, the blue eyed blond haired Inuit woman, becoming the face of preventing violence against Aboriginal Women, but the idea that colonial violence is behind her death is almost offensive.

Bjork: born way up North in Iceland, across the pond from Canadian Eskimos and Inuit.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHuXpWSNa-8

 

[mye400can]

I think they found him, too.

Quote: Sgt. Nancy Rudback said the major crimes unit interviewed the driver on Saturday night. But she won't say if the driver provided any useful information.
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/newbrunswick/story/1.2548195

When they say "we won't say if the driver provided any useful information." It really means in fact they really did provide useful information.