Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

[CanadianMade]

Could it be that for the double murder it is more difficult to determine who to charge with what specific acts?

Could be.
To Me the fact that it has been two weeks and they haven't laid charges says something though. To Me that says that they do not have enough evidence to do so.

 

[Link Haze]

When did they get charged in relation to Lucas and Chynna?? Last I head they were suspects only? Did I miss some important information??

 

[tcfpne]

I'm just going to say that if Canada never charges anyone in the deaths of Lucas and Chynna, that will be an international disgrace. Horrifying for the families. Unbelievable. If they think there's not enough evidence to charge K-B, that needs to be said at some point. If someone else could have done it, then they need to look some more.

But not charging anyone in the deaths of international travelers, that's tone-deaf and really a bad look.

As time goes on, I think they probably will. Something seems connected and we're all lost here, including the RCMP I think, based on them going back to the burned camper.

But charging people if they don't see a connection would be bad for the Canadian courts, even to appease international travellers and others. They could do so now, charge them but if there isn't evidence they will have to remove the charges right before the trial, which I think would upset people even more.

If they charge them later in connection with LF & CD like others have said, that they are doing the paperwork, the same issue occurs.

 

[Francie Starr]

Just think about this. The reason they have not been charged with the murder of Lucas and Chynna may rest ENTIRELY on the FACT, that both of them are non citizens of Canada, and a terrific amount of oversight and interest is taken on a diplomatic level, and between the Investigation Orgs of all countries, USA, AU , and Canada, and to charge them with these two murders is not in the best interest of the Investigation , probably agreed to by all concerned.

At first look that seems like a truly interesting point - and I'll probably take some time to check out some precedents - but on the face of it, I don't think that the citizenship of victims matters. In this case (cases) it appears that capital crimes were committed in Canada, purportedly at the hand of two Canadians. In the case of the two victims who were non-citizens, the only reasonable diplomatic involvement would be, imo, to hope that guilty parties were arrested, charged, tried and convicted as soon as humanly possible. Foreign governmental agencies do not manage or supervise the Canadian justice system. At least not yet. IMO.

 

[CaptainSanchez]

I'm just going to say that if Canada never charges anyone in the deaths of Lucas and Chynna, that will be an international disgrace. Horrifying for the families. Unbelievable. If they think there's not enough evidence to charge K-B, that needs to be said at some point. If someone else could have done it, then they need to look some more.

But not charging anyone in the deaths of international travelers, that's tone-deaf and really a bad look. If there's not enough evidence to convict K-B then that's different. But we all need to see that the Canadian justice system works. If they can't be convicted in the two other homicides, so be it. But there must be a trial.
.

WhAt is the point? Already so much money and resources spent searching for these teens including involving the military. Let them be, if they show up in a city then bring them in otherwise it’s a complete waste of everyone’s time. <modsnip: off topic> All this for two dopey looking teenagers??

 

[nope]

Maybe they robbed the van and folk were already dead, and they were driving by the dead body of Dyck and grabbed his truck.

The chances of that are infinity to none!

 

[gitana1]

I understand what you're saying. But with the arrest warrant for LD's death does tell me that RCMP may have found something critical that made them go from "missing" to suspected killers in such a short time frame.

The reason I'm saying its not 3 murders yet is because RCMP hasn't charged them in LF & CD's deaths (yes yes I know why they havent).

These two guys managed to give all of us an extreme headache

Edit:

That is actually an extremely good point. Why didn't they enlist. Forces.ca are hiring, and they pay well with great benefits.

Because the type of people I believe these two to be - loner murderers- don't have the strength of mind or character to be actual soldiers.

 

[10ofRods]

Of course there must be some evidence! We are just not in the know, as it should be.

Well, I disagree on the "should be" part. I'm not Canadian, but I believe all police forces, everywhere, should strive for maximum transparency. Jury tainting is real, but so is mass hysteria and public safety. A bit more information is needed in this case, IMO. To actually track these people down and keep residents in northern Manitoba from panicking, more information should be released. Caliber of weapon. Number of shots. More about the MO of these two (if they are suspects) needs to be released. People aren't going to just notice them inside their car or where ever if all they have are those CCTV pictures. MOO>

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Could it be that for the double murder it is more difficult to determine who to charge with what specific acts?

They will both be charged with murder. Canada, like Australia and seven US States, does not have a felony murder rule. However, that is unlikely to be an issue when the initial charge is laid, which will be based on the theory that they acted jointly.

There is zero reason to believe at the moment that there will be insufficient evidence to lay charges.

 

[PaulR]

Would the weapon caliber help? If it's unusual... sure, everyone could be on the lookout for the guy with a box of 7.7x58mm Arisaka. Otherwise, it's probably a common caliber.

 

[Jen-Knee]

WhAt is the point? Already so much money and resources spent searching for these teens including involving the military. Let them be, if they show up in a city then bring them in otherwise it’s a complete waste of everyone’s time. <modsnip: off topic> All this for two dopey looking teenagers??

<modsnip: off topic>

There's nothing wrong with resources being used to try and capture two suspected murderers and to give the families and victims justice. I'd be disappointed if they weren't doing all they can.

 

[tcfpne]

Could be.
To Me the fact that it has been two weeks and they haven't laid charges says something though. To Me that says that they do not have enough evidence to do so.

It could be because the crown/prosecution feels there isn't enough evidence or the presented evidence isn't enough for conviction and that they directed RCMP not to charge them. I know they were working on the charges, but like you said, two weeks means that either they feel that later is fine or prosecution doesn't see it they way RCMP does. After all RCMP are just enforcers of the law, crown/prosecution would have to prove guilt/innocence

 

[otto]

I'm just going to say that if Canada never charges anyone in the deaths of Lucas and Chynna, that will be an international disgrace. Horrifying for the families. Unbelievable. If they think there's not enough evidence to charge K-B, that needs to be said at some point. If someone else could have done it, then they need to look some more.

But not charging anyone in the deaths of international travelers, that's tone-deaf and really a bad look. If there's not enough evidence to convict K-B then that's different. But we all need to see that the Canadian justice system works. If they can't be convicted in the two other homicides, so be it. But there must be a trial.

To simply wave hands and say "oh those guys did it" and not go after those guys...bad news. If the guys are never found, not the best case scenario, but understandable. Will be sobering. The fact that RCMP has pretty much said they did it (and launched an all out manhunt) means that they have to dispose of this case somehow (in world opinion).

Of course, Canada can just take its own stance. And people will still drive the Alaskan Highway, but...there not with the idea that it's a happy place.

I think that's bit extreme. People are murdered and missing in foreign countries all the time, and it does not mean that nothing was done to solve the crime. It means it wasn't possible to solve yet.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Well, I disagree on the "should be" part. I'm not Canadian, but I believe all police forces, everywhere, should strive for maximum transparency. Jury tainting is real, but so is mass hysteria and public safety. A bit more information is needed in this case, IMO. To actually track these people down and keep residents in northern Manitoba from panicking, more information should be released. Caliber of weapon. Number of shots. More about the MO of these two (if they are suspects) needs to be released. People aren't going to just notice them inside their car or where ever if all they have are those CCTV pictures. MOO>

That may be your opinion, but it is not standard practice, including outside Canada. Police will disclose such information as they think may lead to apprehension, period. They are not there to satisfy the curiosity of people on Internet forums.

 

[Kubirai]

I am not denying that they very likely killed LD. I am saying I personally do not believe they killed the couple and I don't see why I am not entitled to My opinion if everyone else is?

If you worked for RCMP murder investigations, you would have found some other person responsible for their murders?

That is what you are suggesting RCMP did.

 

[gitana1]

Very good point. Logically, LE must have some sort of solid evidence to have proceeded as they have. What bothers me, however, is that they've essentially been tried and convicted in the media. AFAIK, there hasn't been a shred of evidence released that links them to any of the homicides. So with that in mind, I'm not prepared to call for their hanging just yet.

No one is "calling for their hanging."

The term suspect is more than a hunch. It's a serious term with legal implications. People can sue when that term is used by the media and perps often shut down when it comes to communicating with LE when they're labeled as such.

It's not, "well I wonder if they could be involved. Let's see if they'll have a bit of a chat with us."

They don't arrest people that they merely wonder might be involved. They arrest suspects because they believe them to be guilty:

Dictionary definition -

noun
/ˈsəsˌpekt/

1. 1.
   a person thought to be guilty of a crime or offense.
   "the police have arrested a suspect"
   synonyms: suspected person, accused, defendant
   "a murder suspect"

 

[10ofRods]

I understand what you're saying. But with the arrest warrant for LD's death does tell me that RCMP may have found something critical that made them go from "missing" to suspected killers in such a short time frame.

The reason I'm saying its not 3 murders yet is because RCMP hasn't charged them in LF & CD's deaths (yes yes I know why they havent).

These two guys managed to give all of us an extreme headache

Edit:

That is actually an extremely good point. Why didn't they enlist. Forces.ca are hiring, and they pay well with great benefits.

Good point only if you ignore human motivation and psychology. There are tons of young people who hate the police, hate the military, hate the entire global situation (and hate most other humans, too - some of them).

And not everyone who wants to go into the military is a great person, either. It's way more complicated.

 

[gitana1]

I think the fact that they were in the same area is all they are going on at this point or they would have already charged them with all 3 murders.

ETA: Especially considering L's dad is LE. I think that would put more pressure on to get those charges out faster. They Still haven't done so and it has been 2 weeks.

That's not my experience. All it means is that there was a lot of evidence for immediate charges for one murder and because they've been charged for that one they c an take their time and make sure all their ducks are in a row and that they have a solid, provable case before charging the other crimes.

There is no way in hell in my experience that LE would use the highly charged label "suspect" based on proximity alone.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well, I disagree on the "should be" part. I'm not Canadian, but I believe all police forces, everywhere, should strive for maximum transparency. Jury tainting is real, but so is mass hysteria and public safety. A bit more information is needed in this case, IMO. To actually track these people down and keep residents in northern Manitoba from panicking, more information should be released. Caliber of weapon. Number of shots. More about the MO of these two (if they are suspects) needs to be released. People aren't going to just notice them inside their car or where ever if all they have are those CCTV pictures. MOO>

How would releasing information pertaining directly to the murders in BC assist in locating the named suspects in Manitoba or elsewhere?

 

[gitana1]

Working on charges means they are looking for evidence to connect them meaning they don't have enough yet to charge them.....2 weeks later.

ETA: Just think about it...they were charged with LD's death quite quickly meaning they had solid evidence to connect them. If they had solid evidence to connect the other two they would have already charged them. To me, that means they do not have enough to do so.

No. That's not what it means.