Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[ilovechili]

Having worked in retail for a while, young people are fond of the prepaid gift cards (visa and mastercard), which are marginally better than carrying cash and Canadians are quite fond of their tap credit and debit cards. The tap feature is so common that one typically has to have their bank disable it, which I have done so I can't speak of specifics but I believe that the tap feature works on transactions under $100.

The original artist sketch of the professor was very accurate and I can't imagine that someone in his family didn't catch it on the news and contacted RCMP simply because it sounds like it's an area he frequented and RCMP typically discloses what they feel they need to further their investigation, I have a feeling that he was identified fairly early on but without identifying him publicly, the RCMP were possibly tracking transactions on his bank or credit card statements. It may be those transactions and burned vehicle that tied things together enough to lay charges.

I agree both on the debit and credit cards but I also think most would carry some cash on a trip at least and one out of the country certainly and more so, if they were going to travel in remote areas.

With regard to LD, I agree entirely. I think these two possibly did use debit/credit cards from him and even possibly from CD and LF, it would be an instant link and probably result in video coverage of the perps using them--again linking them to the victim(s).

Jmo.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I found some videos that describe the bug situation. They'd have to have a tent it seems. And note that's the situation in the daytime.

#scratchingmyarmswhilereading

 

[gitana1]

The mosquito situation sounds hellish! Here’s a road sign from Alaska that perhaps barely exaggerates how formidable an opponent the mosquitos are!
Alaskan roadsigns designed to make sure you are REALLY concentrating | Daily Mail Online
View attachment 196582

Ha ha!!

 

[OldCop]

I'm very interested in what people think about what was going on during two periods of time:

1. from the early morning hours of 15 July near Liard Hot Springs to the sighting at Jade City on the 18th July (~4 hours drive)
2. from 22nd July ~4pm Split Lake Checkpoint to burning Rav4 near Fox Creek 22nd July 7PM (~2 hours drive)

For (1) they had 3 days unaccounted for, where were they and what were they doing?

For (2) they had around one hour unaccounted for to pack what they needed, set the car on fire then either hike out into the bush or hijack a car to leave the area

I have seen conflicting reports of the burning car being found on the 22nd or the 23rd but I'm going with 22nd based on CBC timeline https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/northern-bc-killings-manitoba-1.5224278

I believe they were hunkered down for several days after the murders. I do not believe the first 2 murders were planned. As I stated in an earlier thread, I believe they surprised LF and CD when they tried to break into their van which the suspects probably believed to be unoccupied. I think they panicked, shot the couple, took off, and hid for several days trying to figure out what to do.
I also believe that the professor was killed because LE was asking for witnesses and the suspects might have been afraid that their van was seen near the double homicide. They thought they needed the RAV4 to escape. Ironically, it is very possible the police had little evidence connecting them to the double homicide until after they killed the professor.
I believe the second missing hour was used to hide the RAV4, set it on fire, and make their way out of the area. Again ironically, by setting it on fire they drew attention to it.
MOO

 

[scrappinkat]

Texas murder suspect not a suspect in northern BC killings: RCMP

 

[FactFinder3000]

The estimate was that they each made less than $900 Canadian from their Walmart work

Saw that and it was strangely based off 2 weeks, instead of 5. I guess because it has been reported they got two paychecks.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I agree both on the debit and credit cards but I also think most would carry some cash on a trip at least and one out of the country certainly and more so, if they were going to travel in remote areas.

With regard to LD, I agree entirely. I think these two possibly did use debit/credit cards from him and even possibly from CD and LF, it would be an instant link and probably result in video coverage of the perps using them--again linking them to the victim(s).

Jmo.

I always carry cash when going to "remote" areas (ie. Poconos or upstate NY, not even remote by Canada standards). A lot of places in the country are cash only and ATMs can be hard to find.

I also wondered if they used the victims' cards. If so, that would also seemingly point to them not trying to get away with it.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Do you mean this fellow? https://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Woods-Extraordinary-Story-Hermit/dp/1101875682

If so, he mainly (if not exclusively) broke into cabins and stole food and supplies.

If you meant someone else, I'd love to know who, as I love reading about these guys. Thanks!

From their starting point as relatively suburban BC'ers, would mosquito netting be part of common/standard camping gear?

I suppose it's possible they have netting from the professor's supplies too.

Yup, that's the guy.

 

[scrappinkat]

The original artist sketch of the professor was very accurate and I can't imagine that someone in his family didn't catch it on the news and contacted RCMP simply because it sounds like it's an area he frequented and RCMP typically discloses what they feel they need to further their investigation, I have a feeling that he was identified fairly early on but without identifying him publicly, the RCMP were possibly tracking transactions on his bank or credit card statements. It may be those transactions and burned vehicle that tied things together enough to lay charges.

The warrant filed dated July 24th for charging Kam and Bryer with second degree murder referred to him as John Doe. I don’t think they learned his identity until they burned the RAV4.

 

[scrappinkat]

Were they camping in the location where the burned out pickup truck was found/did LD stumble upon them doing something...

I’m pretty sure the picture is of a screen hanging on the tripod, the police were screening through debris swept out of the back of the burned out pickup truck.

 

[10ofRods]

I believe they were listed as missing when their burned camper truck was found and there was no sign of them. RCMP likely ran the plates, contacted the family, and were told the boys had not been heard from. So, unless and until someone found them, they were considered missing.
I may be wrong, but I believe Otto may have been referring to the fact that some critics of the way this case was handled have said that the RCMP should have announced the pair was missing but, if they were found, they should not be approached. This, because of the 2 homicide victims earlier in the week. However, I’m willing to be that RCMP originally thought the missing teens were victims not suspects.

Yes, I agree that's probably what Otto meant, I'm sure he'll weigh in. I think most people think that merely stating they were missing (and not dangerous) was a faux pas. I bet they did think they were victims for about 2 days there.

 

[JuneBug67]

The mosquito situation sounds hellish! Here’s a road sign from Alaska that perhaps barely exaggerates how formidable an opponent the mosquitos are!
Alaskan roadsigns designed to make sure you are REALLY concentrating | Daily Mail Online
View attachment 196582

And that’s just the mosquitoes - in some ways the least of their bug problems. Mosquitoes at least you can see and smash fairly easily. They’ve also got black flies and sand flies to deal with. Somebody posted this sand fly video previously. Gah!

 

[ilovechili]

I always carry cash when going to "remote" areas (ie. Poconos or upstate NY, not even remote by Canada standards). A lot of places in the country are cash only and ATMs can be hard to find.

I also wondered if they used the victims' cards. If so, that would also seemingly point to them not trying to get away with it.

I totally agree, that was exactly my point with cash, one can be miles away from ATMs, etc. especially in rural areas, it still can be the case. I always carry some when traveling unless on a known route with a town of some size every so many miles.

I wonder too about the cards. I tend to think maybe they used them thinking until they were suspected, it was safe, especially again in a more remote area?

Jmo.

 

[JuneBug67]

And let's not forget BS's birthday is tomorrow, August 4th. Maybe something "significant" will happen tomorrow.

Small thing in the grand scheme, but if he was living his regular life at home his 19th would have been a big deal. Crossing that threshold to legal drinking age is a rite of passage most of us anticipated, appreciated and celebrated. One more thing whatever these events over the last weeks have been have cost him if he’s still with us.

 

[otto]

The rav4 was 70km east of Gillam, not 40km. Using Google Earth, that distance puts the car at the turn to Sundance. Two professional media photos include the Sundance road sign & 4 buildings identifiable in Google Earth on Sundance site.

Edit: Photographs are from 2 days ago on Twitter @TysonKoschik

Tyson Koschik on Twitter

Looks like we're both 15km off:

"Gillam is 55 kilometres southwest of Fox Lake Cree Nation, where the torched SUV was found in bush off Highway 290 — which links the two communities along the Nelson River."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manhunt-homicide-suspects-bc-manitoba-1.5222924

 

[ladysamurai]

(I am reposting this at the request of another sleuther--and just to have a more easily accessible reference point. Hope that is okay, moderators!)

I needed to see a condensed timeline—so I put this together. Any mistakes are entirely my own, please feel free to bring them to my attention. Reading through it, I must admit, grudgingly, that BS/KM used a very successful strategy of moving VERY quickly, staying ahead of discoveries and announcements. By sticking to the remote areas, they took advantage of people with more trusting mindsets than those in urban settings—people who are used to helping strangers, people who may leave their doors unlocked and keys in the car. Didn’t hurt that they came across as polite, courteous, neat. Wolves in sheep’s’ clothing.

July 12--BS/KM leave Port Alberni headed to Alberta or the Yukon (as per BS father or grandmother)

July 13/14--Last known contact of BS w/Carol Starkey, grandmother.

July 14 11:30PM--C. Deese and L. Fowler seen alive, at van, Alaska Highway/Hwy 97, Liard Hot Springs

July 15 6:45AM--Deese’s and Fowler’s bodies spotted behind van by trucker

July 17—RCMP says Deese, Fowler deaths are suspicious

July 18—RCMP announces Deese, Fowler as homicide victims

July 18—BS/KM spotted 350km away in Jade City store where they stopped for free coffee

July 18 3:15PM--BS/KM spotted traveling south from Super A General Store, Dease Lake

July 19—BS/KM’s burning pickup, Hwy 37, 50km south of Dease Lake, 470km from Deese/Fowler

July 19—Man’s body reported at highway pullout 2km from burning pickup truck

July 19—BS/KM announced as missing by RCMP

July 21--BS/KM in grey 2011 Toyota RAV4, get SUV stuck in Cold Lake, AB. A local assists them.

July 21—BS/KM recorded on security camera in store at Meadow Lake, AB

July 22—BS/KM are passed through the alcohol checkpoint by band constables at Split Lake, MB

July 23—RCMP announce BS/KN as suspects in the 3 deaths, and possibly driving 2011 Toyota RAV4

July 23—Burning RAV4 reported northeast of Gillam, MB, 170km east of Split Lake, MB. Manhunt.

July 24—RCMP ID body as that of Len Dyck

July 24—RCMP confirm BS/KM connected with burnt RAV4. Manhunt, house-to-house, continues.

July 28—Alleged sighting, massive manhunt in York Landing, southwest of Gillam, but no luck

References used—those below, plus many others courtesy of the Websleuths community:

RCMP not ruling out link between missing Alberni teens, body found near truck, double slaying

(The above reference has some interesting points I have not seen elsewhere, including that BS’s father said he was closer to 125lbs, not 170lbs as reported by RCMP.)

Timeline of events in the deaths of three people in northern B.C.

Teens missing after burning truck and body found in Northern BC | News

 

[otto]

Hold on @otto, gotta ask for clarification on this one please as I'm confused what you are saying.

You are saying that you are a believer that the 2 suspects were 'missing' in the same way that we sadly see so often in other missing cases we follow? Namely, family or friends call LE frantically looking for loved ones and file a missing persons report and commence a search plan and media campaign?

No one was reported missing. Chynna and Lucas were not reported missing, Dr Leonard Dyck was not reported missing, the teens were not reported missing. When the burned truck was discovered, police would have tracked the vehicle registration to Port Alberni and discovered that the teens were driving it. RCMP considered considered the teens missing on July 19. On July 21, their status was changed from missing to suspects.

 

[otto]

I believe they were listed as missing when their burned camper truck was found and there was no sign of them. RCMP likely ran the plates, contacted the family, and were told the boys had not been heard from. So, unless and until someone found them, they were considered missing.
I may be wrong, but I believe Otto may have been referring to the fact that some critics of the way this case was handled have said that the RCMP should have announced the pair was missing but, if they were found, they should not be approached. This, because of the 2 homicide victims earlier in the week. However, I’m willing to be that RCMP originally thought the missing teens were victims not suspects.

Thanks. My emphasis was on the point that when missing, it should not be stated that they should not be approached. RCMP did originally think they were victims.

 

[Jessthinkin]

And that’s just the mosquitoes - in some ways the least of their bug problems. Mosquitoes at least you can see and smash fairly easily. They’ve also got black flies and sand flies to deal with. Somebody posted this sand fly video previously. Gah!

Aargh! I gasped loud at the 0:57 mark! I can't imagine KM and BS contending with that in addition to the other wilderness hardships. (Could almost make them see "polar bear justice" as a welcome relief!)

 

[Kiantra]

(I am reposting this at the request of another sleuther--and just to have a more easily accessible reference point. Hope that is okay, moderators!)

I needed to see a condensed timeline—so I put this together. Any mistakes are entirely my own, please feel free to bring them to my attention. Reading through it, I must admit, grudgingly, that BS/KM used a very successful strategy of moving VERY quickly, staying ahead of discoveries and announcements. By sticking to the remote areas, they took advantage of people with more trusting mindsets than those in urban settings—people who are used to helping strangers, people who may leave their doors unlocked and keys in the car. Didn’t hurt that they came across as polite, courteous, neat. Wolves in sheep’s’ clothing.

July 12--BS/KM leave Port Alberni headed to Alberta or the Yukon (as per BS father or grandmother)

July 13/14--Last known contact of BS w/Carol Starkey, grandmother.

July 14 11:30PM--C. Deese and L. Fowler seen alive, at van, Alaska Highway/Hwy 97, Liard Hot Springs

July 15 6:45AM--Deese’s and Fowler’s bodies spotted behind van by trucker

July 17—RCMP says Deese, Fowler deaths are suspicious

July 18—RCMP announces Deese, Fowler as homicide victims

July 18—BS/KM spotted 350km away in Jade City store where they stopped for free coffee

July 18 3:15PM--BS/KM spotted traveling south from Super A General Store, Dease Lake

July 19—BS/KM’s burning pickup, Hwy 37, 50km south of Dease Lake, 470km from Deese/Fowler

July 19—Man’s body reported at highway pullout 2km from burning pickup truck

July 19—BS/KM announced as missing by RCMP

July 21--BS/KM in grey 2011 Toyota RAV4, get SUV stuck in Cold Lake, AB. A local assists them.

July 21—BS/KM recorded on security camera in store at Meadow Lake, AB

July 22—BS/KM are passed through the alcohol checkpoint by band constables at Split Lake, MB

July 23—RCMP announce BS/KN as suspects in the 3 deaths, and possibly driving 2011 Toyota RAV4

July 23—Burning RAV4 reported northeast of Gillam, MB, 170km east of Split Lake, MB. Manhunt.

July 24—RCMP ID body as that of Len Dyck

July 24—RCMP confirm BS/KM connected with burnt RAV4. Manhunt, house-to-house, continues.

July 28—Alleged sighting, massive manhunt in York Landing, southwest of Gillam, but no luck

References used—those below, plus many others courtesy of the Websleuths community:

RCMP not ruling out link between missing Alberni teens, body found near truck, double slaying

(The above reference has some interesting points I have not seen elsewhere, including that BS’s father said he was closer to 125lbs, not 170lbs as reported by RCMP.)

Timeline of events in the deaths of three people in northern B.C.

Teens missing after burning truck and body found in Northern BC | News

Thank you for this. I was looking too.