Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[CinNC]

Perhaps the teens were never even in the river in the boat. The teens could have found the boat near where RCMP eventually discovered it - and it may never have been moved very far at all. It could have been abandoned long ago due to damage and left in the bush near the river's edge. After all, who would want it after it got bashed up by the rapids or river?

Bearing that in mind, it isn't unreasonable to think the teens stumbled upon the boat in the brush and just used it upside down to protect themselves from weather, bugs, bears, to sleep under, etc.

And since RCMP divers searched the river with the snobulance on standby, it isn't unreasonable to think they found remains, partial remains, or blood and expected to recover a body or bodies.

Alternately, if the teens went through the rapids in the boat and it tipped and eventually just floated to where the RCMP found it, it is likely that their belongings would have dispersed in/via/throughout the area from river currents and not just ended up in one general spot (which is what RCMP announcement implies).

Maybe the river didn't damage the boat at all; if they were hiding under or behind it, a grizzly or polar bear could easily damage an aluminum boat by jumping on it to get to prey.

Whatever the case, I have long thought that the RCMP are holding their cards close to their vest and have had more reason they the pubic is aware of to keep looking in the area around Gillam. We armchair sleuths don't know what we don't know.

 

[otto]

Based on the location I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if they tried to make the corner in to Sundance and overshot in to the ditch. Wouldn’t entirely add up though as I imagine they could have driven probably out of the ditch. No signs that they had tried to get out of the ditch though there had been some extreme rain not long after the dumped it there.

If you need maps, let me know. I do it as a hobby.

 

[otto]

It would be great if that is what it was that they found, but of all things to leave behind, I'm not sure something small and lightweight like that would be, unless it was done on purpose. And that's assuming that they even carry wallets (my sons who are 18 and 19 don't). I just watched one of the video's that someone shared a few pages back, IF they took a boat, I don't know if they could survive. I'm being cautious at this point about everything we hear. JMO

It's almost like they leave a deliberate trail - interesting.

If they'd made it to the Hudson Bay in that boat, it's unlikely that anyone would have looked on the shore and found the evidence - they found the boat first. It would have been a long time before anyone realized they left by boat.

On the other hand, a second aerial sweep was made and that's how they found the boat, so even if they had not made it to another shore, they would have been spotted on the river.

Maybe they used the boat to cross the river and then pushed it into the rapids.

 

[Tilly23]

The latest cbc.ca news article about the found items and the boat (also includes an updated timeline):
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fugitive-manhunt-manitoba-1.5237174

excerpt (RSBM, RBBM):

Police said Tuesday that several items were located on the shore of the Nelson River on Friday, about nine kilometres from where a burnt-out vehicle used by the suspects was found last month. (Police had earlier said the items were discovered Saturday, but later issued a correction.)
​

another excerpt (RSBM):

RCMP have been focusing their search efforts around the Nelson River in recent days, after officers in the air spotted a damaged aluminum boat along the shore on Friday.​

So, it appears the "several items" were actually found on Friday, and perhaps after the air search spotted the boat.

MOO

 

[LadyL]

how far from York Landing to Sundance?
if that was them in York Landing (& I believe it was), then they backtracked again
they seem really disorganized and careless (but is it deliberate?)

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Do we know if the boat and the items were found in close vicinity to each other? If so, what are the chances of them being washed ashore in this manner? After all the Nelson seems to be quite fast and rough--I would expect things to be washed up more sporadically, if at all.

My gut is telling me that these two would have been frightened by the river and would not have attempted it. I am leaning toward the idea that they left the items intentionally to be found, either to send a message (perhaps to family?) that they are still alive or to continue the "catch me if you can" game. It seems to fit the pattern--burnt truck and camper, burnt RAV4, the smug stroll through the local co-op, and now a trashed boat and personal items. It all screams "look at me! look at me!". As I mentioned before I think their egos crave attention.

Admittedly, my hope that they are found alive so that we may get some answers and the families may get a little closure is surely swaying me a bit here.

Im unsure if the Items were left deliberately , either as a taunt or for practical purposes, or indeed if washed onto the bank along with the boat.

However, If a deliberate dumping for practical purposes, then surely dumping IN the river would be the best bet?

Therefore, although Im not overfond of either remaining 2 options from the 3 above, they seem to be the most likely choices at this point.

Moo

 

[otto]

Do we know if the boat and the items were found in close vicinity to each other? If so, what are the chances of them being washed ashore in this manner? After all the Nelson seems to be quite fast and rough--I would expect things to be washed up more sporadically, if at all.

My gut is telling me that these two would have been frightened by the river and would not have attempted it. I am leaning toward the idea that they left the items intentionally to be found, either to send a message (perhaps to family?) that they are still alive or to continue the "catch me if you can" game. It seems to fit the pattern--burnt truck and camper, burnt RAV4, the smug stroll through the local co-op, and now a trashed boat and personal items. It all screams "look at me! look at me!". As I mentioned before I think their egos crave attention.

Admittedly, my hope that they are found alive so that we may get some answers and the families may get a little closure is surely swaying me a bit here.

Since the Lower Limestone Rapids and Sundance Creek were mentioned early on, and the boat is all banged up, I think the boat must be 4km from the evidence - so they travelled 3-4 km when the boat hit the rapids. It was found on the North shore, so was it launched on the North shore, or did they cross the river and then push the boat into the rapids?

On the weekend, it was reported that the distance between the car and the boat is 13 km. Today it was reported that the distance they travelled (along the creek to the shore ?) is 9 km. That means the rapids were 3-4 km downstream towards the Hudson Bay.

 

[MistyWaters]

There's no evidence that they had a boat with the car. One of the many witnesses would probably have seen if they had one. Maybe they were attempting to hide out in the bush first. But then they saw the insane amount of police, helicopters, etc. looking for them and freaked out. They happened to come across this boat, made an escape, probably in the dead of night to avoid being seen, had no idea what they were getting into, aaaaand...dead.



All of their decisions either seem to be the decisions of two people who are freaking out so much they can't think straight and are incapable of long-term planning, and/or who are in some kind of folie a deux and not living in the same reality as everyone else.

Here's a thought...maybe the murders or other criminal activity like robbery WAS planned and that's why they lied to their families about where they were going. But thinking about doing something and actually doing it are two very different things. Maybe it was only once they actually did it (whether "it" started with Lucas/Chynna or Professor Dyck) and actually saw the murder scene and all, that they fully realized what they did and the consequences. From that point they spiraled more and more into a panic and basically were just running as far as they could go without any clear long-term objective.

Your theory makes sense to me.

Looking at Google Maps IMO it’s not a total mystery why they might’ve ended up at a gravelled dead end road at PR 290.

Their route was consistently via northern most highway heading eastward.

But after arriving in Manitoba, if they intended to continue eastward one must travel south to get around Lake Winnipeg. They didn’t do that, instead they continued on the northern highway east toward Thompson. Still a good, paved road at that point and so it was probably beyond their comprehension to imagine more than 5 hours later, it eventually led to PR290 and then to nowhere. I doubt they had a Manitoba map with them. If they did they misread it and had no clue where they were. I don’t believe this was an intended destination. JMO

 

[aphoto]

Were you able to get a sense of how deep the water is near the Lower Limestone Rapids? I researched it a bit but the data primarily focused seasonal level changes rather than high and low levels.

I never made it down to the river so can’t comment on that.

 

[otto]

Red - Car
Purple - Evidence on shore ?
Yellow - boat (should be a bit farther North)

 

[Blue Amethyst]

If you need maps, let me know. I do it as a hobby.

Love your maps Otto. It keeps my sense of direction from getting all muddled.

 

[Seattle1]

Melissa Tait‏Verified account @meltait
RCMP said they found items “directly linked” to murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky & Kam McLeod on the Nelson River. The roadblock at Sundance near where police are searching is still up + a rainbow overhead. @ianabailey story: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-manitoba-rcmp-find-items-linked-to-manhunt-suspects-on-shoreline-near/ … #CanadaManhunt

3:05 PM - 6 Aug 2019 from Gillam, Manitoba pst

 

[Peace777]

Upon looking at the punt boat that was found it looks to me like a section of the top rim of the boat on the right side was cut away, if so how would they have done that? What do you guys think? Copied pic from this article Two B.C. fugitives probably 'hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say

 

[otto]

Perhaps the teens were never even in the river in the boat. The teens could have found the boat near where RCMP eventually discovered it - and it may never have been moved very far at all. It could have been abandoned long ago due to damage and left in the bush near the river's edge. After all, who would want it after it got bashed up by the rapids or river?

Bearing that in mind, it isn't unreasonable to think the teens stumbled upon the boat in the brush and just used it upside down to protect themselves from weather, bugs, bears, to sleep under, etc.

And since RCMP divers searched the river with the snobulance on standby, it isn't unreasonable to think they found remains, partial remains, or blood and expected to recover a body or bodies.

Alternately, if the teens went through the rapids in the boat and it tipped and eventually just floated to where the RCMP found it, it is likely that their belongings would have dispersed in/via/throughout the area from river currents and not just ended up in one general spot (which is what RCMP announcement implies).

Maybe the river didn't damage the boat at all; if they were hiding under or behind it, a grizzly or polar bear could easily damage an aluminum boat by jumping on it to get to prey.

Whatever the case, I have long thought that the RCMP are holding their cards close to their vest and have had more reason they the pubic is aware of to keep looking in the area around Gillam. We armchair sleuths don't know what we don't know.

The boat is bent the wrong way for a grizzly bear to jump on it while they were hiding underneath





Ref: RCMP

 

[Jen-Knee]

Here's a thought...maybe the murders or other criminal activity like robbery WAS planned and that's why they lied to their families about where they were going. But thinking about doing something and actually doing it are two very different things. Maybe it was only once they actually did it (whether "it" started with Lucas/Chynna or Professor Dyck) and actually saw the murder scene and all, that they fully realized what they did and the consequences. From that point they spiraled more and more into a panic and basically were just running as far as they could go without any clear long-term objective.

That's why I'm really curious as to what Kam told his parents about where they planned to go. We already know Bryer told his father and grandmother different destinations. Was it because they planned to do something criminal, or were plans were constantly changing, or did they not really have a solid plan before departing?

Their actions after the murder do feel like more of an unplanned panic. Burning not one but two vehicles like beacons for LE to know where they have been, and now a boat with items on the shore of the Nelson.

I'm curious about what kind of reasons LE would have to not disclose what sort of items were found.

I just hope they are found soon so that the people in Northern Manitoba can feel safe and normal again. Preferably alive, though, as the victims families and their own families deserve some answers.

 

[missy1974]

how far from York Landing to Sundance?
if that was them in York Landing (& I believe it was), then they backtracked again
they seem really disorganized and careless (but is it deliberate?)

So you think both are true? I don't know if that's possible, I think one or the other could be true, but I'm not sure that logistically both can be.

 

[Seattle1]

Renata D'Aliesio @RenataDAliesio

We know that the damaged rowboat was spotted on Friday afternoon. The only other thing found that day was a red-and-white water container. The RCMP have just said other items linked to the fugitives have since been found along the shoreline #canadianmanhunt #canadamanhunt

1:03 PM · Aug 6, 2019 pst· Twitter for Android

 

[otto]

Upon looking at the punt boat that was found it looks to me like a section of the top rim of the boat on the right side was cut away, if so how would they have done that? What do you guys think? Copied pic from this article Two B.C. fugitives probably 'hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say

Aluminium Jon boats are designed with three seats, one in the middle, one on each end. Some people remove the middle seat to add more room to the boat - there are instructions online for how to do this and maintain structural integrity. If they removed the middle seat so they could lie flat on the boat, they compromised structural integrity. It's intended for calm waters, to go over rather than cut the wave. It might survive rapids, but not without the middle seat ... opinion.

 

[steelybird]

Melissa Tait‏Verified account @meltait
RCMP said they found items “directly linked” to murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky & Kam McLeod on the Nelson River. The roadblock at Sundance near where police are searching is still up + a rainbow overhead. @ianabailey story: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-manitoba-rcmp-find-items-linked-to-manhunt-suspects-on-shoreline-near/ … #CanadaManhunt

3:05 PM - 6 Aug 2019 from Gillam, Manitoba pst

Wow....that rainbow....maybe it's a sign from above

 

[M_Shelll1]

Upon looking at the punt boat that was found it looks to me like a section of the top rim of the boat on the right side was cut away, if so how would they have done that? What do you guys think? Copied pic from this article Two B.C. fugitives probably 'hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say

It looks like maybe little sections had been previously cut to help hold the oars? And I'd assume the seat removal was done prior to them getting the boat as well?

ETA: also the boat doesn't look like it was stolen off this particular river but probably off a smaller lake nearby, looks from the maps (thanks otto!) there's a lot of little fishing spots near there